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Bush Orders Syria Out Of Lebanon

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chaos75

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Bush orders Syria out of Lebanon

Demonstrations continue in Lebanon
Rice: Syria 'out of step'
U.S.: Iran deceiving world
Blair puts pressure on Syria
   



ARNOLD, Md. (AP) â ” President Bush on Wednesday demanded in blunt terms that Syria get out of Lebanon, saying the free world is in agreement that Damascus' authority over the political affairs of its neighbor must end now.

He applauded the strong message sent to Syria when Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier held a joint news conference on London on Tuesday.

â Å“Both of them stood up and said loud and clear to Syria, 'You get your troops and your secret services out of Lebanon so that good democracy has a chance to flourish,â ? Bush said during an appearance at a community college in Maryland to tout his job training programs.

The world, Bush said, â Å“is speaking with one voice when it comes to making sure that democracy has a chance to flourish in Lebanon.â ?

The president's words, taken with those from Rice and others in the Bush administration this week, amount to the strongest pressure to date on Syria from Washington.

â Å“Syria knows the concerns of the international community, and they know what they need to do to change their behavior and become a constructive member of the region and the international community,â ? White House press secretary Scott McClellan said earlier Wednesday.

Turkish ambassador Osman Faruk Logoglu urged the administration to offer trade and other economic and diplomatic incentives to Syria.

â Å“The chances of Syria withdrawing are greater than ever before,â ? Logoglu told reporters. â Å“But it is obviously going to take a long time.â ?

Rice, in London to attend an international conference on Palestinian security and government reform, had said Tuesday that Syria is â Å“out of stepâ ? with a growing desire for democracy in the Middle East.

The Bush administration also on Tuesday blamed terrorists based in Syria for last week's deadly suicide attack in Israel.

McClellan said the White House has â Å“firm evidenceâ ? that Syria was home base for the terrorist attack in Israel that rocked the latest efforts for peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Bush made a similar point during a White House meeting with congressional leaders, participants said, and so did Rice while in London.

All key Lebanese political decisions are assumed to have a stamp of approval from the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad.

Huge street demonstrations and Monday's resignation of the pro-Syrian Lebanese government marked the most serious challenge to Syrian authority in Lebanon since the end of the civil war that killed 150,000 and crushed the Lebanese economy in the 1970s and 1980s.

The events also were an opening for the Bush administration to press its wider goal of democracy across the Middle East and to throw a spotlight on what the United States contends is long-standing Syrian support for terrorists who are trying to undermine progress toward Israeli-Palestinian peace.

At the news conference with Barnier, Rice said their two countries would support the scheduled election this spring in Lebanon, perhaps by sending observers and monitors.

She also suggested international peacekeepers might be needed eventually and could help secure democracy for the Lebanese if Syria were to withdraw.

Assad indicated in an interview with Time magazine that he would withdraw Syria's 15,000 troops from Lebanon â Å“maybe in the next few months.â ? Later, however, a Syrian official speaking on condition of anonymity in Damascus questioned whether it could occur within months.

U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State David Satterfield, on Capitol Hill after a trip to Lebanon, was dismissive of what he called the â Å“rhetoricâ ? out of Damascus.

â Å“Neither this government nor the people of Lebanon will believe anything other than what we see with our eyes,â ? Satterfield told the Senate Foregin Relations Committee.

Separately, on the issue of Iran's nuclear program, Rice indicated that the administration was working with European leaders on a plan to offer Iran economic incentives in exchange for abandoning its nuclear ambitions. The United States has accused Iran of developing nuclear weapons, a charge Tehran denies.

â Å“We are designing, I think, an important common strategy with Europe so that Iran knows there is no other way,â ? Rice said in a brief interview aired Wednesday on NBC's â Å“Todayâ ? show.

Until recently, the administration had opposed any rewards for Tehran's cooperation. But during the president's trip overseas last week, European leaders urged Bush to join them in offering incentives such as possible membership at some time for Iran in the World Trade Organization and the White House suggested he would consider that route.



...The World Police is at it again, sabre rattling to force countries to bend to their political will, to fulfill the notion of Pax Americana and the creation of Western style democracy in the Middle East.  I wouldnt be suprised if the CIA had in hand in what is going on in Lebanon, anyway else you look at it, the logic behind the Hariri assasination makes no sense. 


 
Quote,
...The World Police is at it again.

...I'm sure you are refering to the French,right?      You are getting stale really quick, lad.
...and if "western style democracy" bothers you so much, well, go away.

 
About as stale as that response..

Lacking substance or an articulate response..

Its simply a statement that maybe the US should try to keep to itself for once, instead of trying to bend the world to its own image, we would all live happier lives...

As for democracy, I enjoy it just fine, but it should never be imposed on anyone, simply be we think its better than the rest..
 
Just so we can continue here, lets see if I have your thought process right,

US in Iraq bad.......occupying sovereign country
Syria in Lebanon good........why was that again? ::)
 
chaos75 said:
...The World Police is at it again, sabre rattling to force countries to bend to their political will, to fulfill the notion of Pax Americana and the creation of Western style democracy in the Middle East.   I wouldnt be suprised if the CIA had in hand in what is going on in Lebanon, anyway else you look at it, the logic behind the Hariri assasination makes no sense.  

A little presumptuous, don't you think? The US is responding to mass protests by the Lebanese...they are supporting a popular movement, not forcing one. You could argue (as I have in the past) that that was not the case in Iraq, but you'd have a tough go of it convincing me this 'deja vu all over again'.

If the US/West forces Syrian troops out of Lebanon, that is a true liberation.



 
...and getting back to the article,....the poker game begins again......
 
chaos75 said:
Its simply a statement that maybe the US should try to keep to itself for once, instead of trying to bend the world to its own image, we would all live happier lives...

As for democracy, I enjoy it just fine, but it should never be imposed on anyone, simply be we think its better than the rest..

Who is this this "we" you speak about?  It would not, for instance, include the Lebanese - who have made their point of view vis-à-vis the Syrians quite clear and who would welcome US pressure to get them out of their country so that they can get along with being a democracy.  It would not include various people in the Middle East who would like to have a say in the way their country is run and incidentally raise it out of poverty.  Sorry, but your commentary simply doesn't scan.  Consider that "we" imposed democracy on Afghanistan, and by all appearances the Afghanis are quite happy with - especially the women who can now be considered human beings instead of chattel.  Chew that one over for a bit.
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
US in Iraq bad.......occupying sovereign country
Syria in Lebanon good........why was that again? ::)

I don't see where he was commenting on Syria's occupation of Lebanon as much as he was commenting on Bush's 'command' to a foreign country to do what he wants. He seems to be tired of W deciding what is good and right for the rest of the world, as are others.
 
Sigpig beat me to that response.  I didn't see any mention of an endorsement of the actions of Syria in Lebanon. 

I think that assumption only speaks as to your thought processes, not his...
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
...and if "western style democracy" bothers you so much, well, go away.

Chaos, welcome to the 'Bruce Monkhouse thinks you shouldn't live in a democracy because you are critical of some of it's policies club' - from the founding member  ;D

Isn't it that little democracy thing that gives people the right and privilege to be critical of the government?
 
I defy you to indicate a nation that acts for anything other than it's own best interests. Is that wrong?

Having said that, the US is NOT deciding what is good and right for Lebanon, the Lebanese people decided that, Bush is supporting them. I suspect (and hope) that Canada will join the US in their call for Syria to leave Lebanon.
 
...and of course the French ALWAYS take their cues from George, ::)
He applauded the strong message sent to Syria when Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and French Foreign Minister Michel Barnier held a joint news conference on London on Tuesday.
â Å“Both of them stood up and said loud and clear to Syria, 'You get your troops and your secret services out of Lebanon so that good democracy has a chance to flourish,â ? Bush said during an appearance at a community college in Maryland to tout his job training programs.


"as are others"....yea others who have "sweet deals" behind the UN's back and of course those who rule with impunity who surely don't want something as vile as "letting the peons have a say".

Once again you two have taken something pretty much the world agree's on and turned it into USA bashing. How nice, BTW, how is the weather down there today Sigpig?
 
I don't see where he was commenting on Syria's occupation of Lebanon as much as he was commenting on Bush's 'command' to a foreign country to do what he wants. He seems to be tired of W deciding what is good and right for the rest of the world, as are others.



Wow, someone who actually read what I wrote.

But to answer the critics..

US in Iraq bad, but now they are there so not much choice
Syria in Lebanon bad, but at least it was semi stable, minus the Isrealis an Hezbhollah trading fire now and then
Forcing any type of government on anyone bad

How does 25,000 amount to mass protests in a country of 3mil+

As for Afghan women being people thats great, "now they can sit in the senate after all", shades of Canadina heritage.
Its no denying that democracy can work, again back to my point on forcing governmental systems
 
Lebanon already has a democracy, smart guy, so your point of 'forcing a governmental system' is moot. What were talking about here is foreign occupation. You clearly disagree (as do I) with foreign nations occupying other nations without cause.....how do you justify Syrian troops in Lebanon?
 
Quote,
but at least it was semi stable,........yea I'm sure all those who have died over the last 15 years are glad it was "semi stable" when it happened..
 
chaos75 said:
Syria in Lebanon bad, but at least it was semi stable, minus the Isrealis an Hezbhollah trading fire now and then

So by the same token, you would not have objected to the Soviets entering Chekoslovakia in 1968 to restore stability after the Dubcek government created a bit of "chaos" by wanting to go its own way?

chaos75 said:
Forcing any type of government on anyone bad
Then we should not have forced democracy on Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan against their will

chaos75 said:
How does 25,000 amount to mass protests in a country of 3mil+
The fact that the protests happened at all are amazing in and of themselves and are highly indicative.  Consider Lebanon's recent history and the history of Arab states in general over the last 50 odd years.  You'll see what I mean

chaos75 said:
As for Afghan women being people thats great, "now they can sit in the senate after all", shades of Canadina heritage.
Its no denying that democracy can work, again back to my point on forcing governmental systems
Well, I suppose we should just have let the Taliban continue with its inhuman rule and sit back here in Canada, smug, fat and self-satisfied that at least we are okay and to hell with the rest.
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Once again you two have taken something pretty much the world agree's on and turned it into USA bashing. How nice, BTW, how is the weather down there today Sigpig?

It's actually kind of chilly today, only 67F right now and I had to wear the liner in my motorcycle jacket this morning  :eek:

I don't like Syria's occupation of Lebanon any more than the next person. And yes I know the world community is in general agreement on this. I just tire of Bush's attitude that what he says goes or else. I'm not reacting to just this statement but the history of the man.
 
Horse_Soldier said:
Then we should not have forced democracy on Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan against their will

Huge difference between nation building when you were at war with another country.  Last time I checked we aren't at war with anyone right now, nor have we been since WW2.

Horse_Soldier said:
The fact that the protests happened at all are amazing in and of themselves and are highly indicative.  Consider Lebanon's recent history and the history of Arab states in general over the last 50 odd years.  You'll see what I mean

So it has gone from mass protests to any type of protest.  In no society does the vocal minority, outweight the silent majority.

Either way, enough imperialistic, we know best attitude from the US government.  My simple point is enough of that already.
 
sigpig said:
I don't like Syria's occupation of Lebanon any more than the next person....I'm not reacting to just this statement but the history of the man.

Based on your earlier posts in this thread, it certainly seems you oppose the withdrawl of Syrian troops from Lebanon.

Quote from sigpig "...he was commenting on Bush's 'command' to a foreign country to do what he wants. He seems to be tired of W deciding what is good and right for the rest of the world, as are others." Seems to me you oppose the message (Syria get out) and the messenger (Bush).

To backpedal now and say you actually oppose Syrian occupation of Lebanon is not backed up by your own words.

"So it has gone from mass protests to any type of protest.   In no society does the vocal minority, outweight the silent majority."

So your saying that the majority of Lebanese support the occupation of their homeland by Syria?

"Either way, enough imperialistic, we know best attitude from the US government.   My simple point is enough of that already."

It is not just the opinion of the US that Syria should leave, it is the opinion of most of the Western world, the middle eastern world, and most importantly, it seems the Lebanese themselves.

I think you need to check your fire and look at the situation. It seems you are criticizing the US out of hand, and not looking at this objectively. There are enough reasons to criticize the US without inventing new ones.
 
chaos75 said:
Huge difference between nation building when you were at war with another country.   Last time I checked we aren't at war with anyone right now, nor have we been since WW2.
No - you said forcing any type of government on anybody bad. The Allies forced democracy on nations that did not really want it. You cannot suddenly make exceptions when your argument is proven fallacious.  That's the problem with sweeping declarations - someone is bound to prove them wrong.

chaos75 said:
So it has gone from mass protests to any type of protest.   In no society does the vocal minority, outweight the silent majority..
Read what I said: protests of that size in Lebanon are extraordinary.  To make it crystal clear, they can be taken as an indication that there is a strong underlying sentiment only now surfacing.  Protests of this magnitude notwithstanding the ever-present fear of Syrian repression are not "vocal minority" tantrums.  Protests in any dictatorship (and Lebanon under Syrian rule is a dicatatorship) have to be noticed.  The proportion of active protesters in the Ukraine a few weeks ago was also small compared to the mass of the population.  Was that also just a "vocal minority" that didn't deserve the support of the West (which let Russia know in no uncertain terms to stay out).

chaos75 said:
Either way, enough imperialistic, we know best attitude from the US government.   My simple point is enough of that already..
 
Um no.  You have not made a point - simple or otherwise.  I gather that you have not had much experience as a debater.  Debating is like a gunfight - don't come armed with a knife.  ;D
 
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