Buying/selling Medals Superthread [merged]

[Jammer]

Ergo...
It falls upon us and those of like mind to lobby, badger,and do what it takes to continue to educate the masses about our history as a nation.
Canada as we all know has a rich and proud military history. Let us continue to peretuate that by doing what we are doing.
Private collections very often fill in the gaps of days that once were.
Well done to all

 

[redleafjumper]

Here is the letter that I sent:

Dear Mr. Stoffler,

I am more than a little concerned with your comments as reported in the Ottawa Citizen on November 24 regarding those of use who collect medals.  While I recognize by your other published comments that you are a strong supporter of the military and the Canadian soldier I find these comments, though possibly well-intentioned, to be somewhat misguided. 

As a former soldier and a person interested in history I collect these artifacts of our country's heroes for purposes of historical display and to use in education of students. I put on an annual Remembrance display in the college where I teach and that display includes medals so as to bring some humanity to the message.  Most collectors that I know do a tremendous amount of research regarding particular individuals and put together small displays, often including photos, with all of the historical information about those medals and the recipient.  There are often tremendous efforts taken to put collections of medals belonging to individuals back together when they have been separated.

Collecting medals is an important part of preserving and conserving our history.  To outright prevent buying and selling of these medals would in effect remove this ability to make use of these items for the preservation of history.  Medals have value because of the deeds done to obtain them, and it is a sad fact that not all families that inherit medals truly respect and appreciate the significance of these items.  Some people do sell their ancestor's medals to collectors and quite bluntly most collectors treat these items with great if not more respect than they had when they sat unappreciated at the bottom of a shoe box in the basement. 

A blanket banning of the buying or selling of these items is simply unreasonable.

Yours truly,

etc.

 

[the 48th regulator]

BILL C-415 An Act to prohibit the sale of Canadian military and police medals

Hot topic on other forums as well...

http://www.cefresearch.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4082&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

dileas

tess

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

It's an open forum, feel free to send him the link.

dileas

tess

Go ahead...you're the guy who's bitching about his position and the Private Members bill. If you're concerned take action....Members of Parliament respond to voters concerns otherwise they risk losing their mandates. If you think his constituents would be upset with his stance then let him know. His riding is Lower Sackville where half the military population of Halifax live and a lot of Veterans as well. This is your issue which you identified first by calling the guy a POS....so do something more constructive than name calling and send him an email or a letter.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Go ahead...you're the guy who's bitching about his position and the Private Members bill. If you're concerned take action....Members of Parliament respond to voters concerns otherwise they risk losing their mandates. If you think his constituents would be upset with his stance then let him know. His riding is Lower Sackville where half the military population of Halifax live and a lot of Veterans as well. This is your issue which you identified first by calling the guy a POS....so do something more constructive than name calling and send him an email or a letter.

He feels the public airwaves are suitable for his name calling, I returned the favour and voiced my views in a public forum, using my real name.

Sorry if that doesn't meet your standard.

If you feel so strongly that he must be made aware, as I said to you before;

It's an open forum, feel free to send him the link.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/68342/post-640282.html#msg640282

Politicians, Members of other Government groups, Journalists, and many have made an appearance, don't see why he can't.

Didn't realize you are his public affairs spokesman.

dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

I find it really ironic that it's being deemed OK for the MP in question to put forth a very public motion which is being tracked by the media, and for him to make ill-advised comments to the media (a VERY public forum) about those collectors ...

Yet, those collectors who choose to bitch publicly (ie here on this site) and correct his misguided thoughts on the matter and on his calling them "scum" ... are being knocked for defending themselves in a public forum (less public mind you than the media outlets this member is using). Yet, they are only doing the same thing that it seems is acceptable for the "esteemed member" to do -- defending themselves publicly against his very public accusations of them as "scumbags."

Too funny. He can knock them publicly -- yet they can't defend themselves publicly?? What a crock.

Pot -- kettle -- black.

 

[armyvern]

Go ahead...you're the guy who's bitching about his position and the Private Members bill. If you're concerned take action....Members of Parliament respond to voters concerns otherwise they risk losing their mandates. If you think his constituents would be upset with his stance then let him know. His riding is Lower Sackville where half the military population of Halifax live and a lot of Veterans as well. This is your issue which you identified first by calling the guy a POS....so do something more constructive than name calling and send him an email or a letter.

What!!??

Have you overlooked the fact that he publicly deemed them to be the scum of the earth and they have simply defended themselves against those accusations??

How quickly we forget -- or white-wash over that the issue that actually "identified first". The labelling of all collectors as "Scumbags" certainly seems to be an opening shot in my books. Speaking out about the erroneous application of THAT label -- is called defending ones self ... (vice your personal take of them firing the opening salvo).

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Both of you missed my point. My point was if they feel strongly that the MP in question has or is misrepresenting the situation then they should write to him and let him know.
I'm surprised at you Vern, you're the one in another forum who told a guy to stop complaining about poor service at clothing stores and put it in writing to the proper authority...that's what I suggested this person do too....put it in writing to the guy who made the statement.

I didn't overlook the quote in the newspaper Vern I'm just sceptical of most of what they use as quotes, having been misquoted myself before. If he said it then it wasn't a very good thing to say and maybe if he was asked about it he might like to rephrase or rethink his position.

I'm not the guy's spokesman nor did I ever say I was. I have met the man on several occasions at official functions and found him to be a staunch supporter of the military and veterans. I'm suggesting to you that you make him aware of your displeasure, I doubt he's a subscriber to Army.ca. and therefore I would suggest he's not reading your mind on this one.
As this isn't my issue and obviously is yours the ball is in your court not mine.

 

[armyvern]

It was this forum ... another thread.

I told him that besides whining here ... he needed to put it in writing as it would have to be put officially into writing to have another government department fix a policy and procurement matter and a failure of a contractor to meet it's contract agreement.

Apples/oranges.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

It was this forum ... another thread.

I told him that besides whining here ... he needed to put it in writing as it would have to be put officially into writing to have another government department fix a policy and procurement matter and a failure of a contractor to meet it's contract agreement.

Apples/oranges.

No it's not.
We had a guy who was complaining about something and then said he couldn't be bothered to do anything about it. You suggested he write to the appropriate person to point out the deficiency or nothing would get done.
I just suggested the same thing in this thread and provided him with the addresses, links and phone numbers where he could do it.
Peter Stoffer is proposing a Private members bill which if it is supported will set a government policy that will discriminate against him and his friends, according to him. If he does nothing other than complain about it then nothing will get done.
Same thing.

 

[bdog]

this are going back to the family anyways
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=ad0d08a1-d3ce-42f0-861e-5a31e5628daa&k=43492

 

[the 48th regulator]

Did any of you email him and continue the democratic process or are you all just going to sit back and take the media's word for what he said and go on grumbling in your beer? :

Go ahead...you're the guy who's bitching about his position and the Private Members bill. If you're concerned take action....Members of Parliament respond to voters concerns otherwise they risk losing their mandates. If you think his constituents would be upset with his stance then let him know. His riding is Lower Sackville where half the military population of Halifax live and a lot of Veterans as well. This is your issue which you identified first by calling the guy a POS....so do something more constructive than name calling and send him an email or a letter.

So does he represent himself and those that vote for him, or all Canadians?  Do you really understand the democratic process that you are beating your chest about?  By the way I am drinking red wine, not beer tonight.

Both of you missed my point. My point was if they feel strongly that the MP in question has or is misrepresenting the situation then they should write to him and let him know.

What point of view was that?  The fact you met him and like him, and don’t feel the same ire I have towards someone insulting me?  You want me to privately contact Mr. Stoffer, who uses such strong words scum in media in describing me, to hide behind PMs and Letters?

You found his contact info, and obvioulsy feel strong with our reaction to his attacks, invite him here yourself.

I'm surprised at you Vern, you're the one in another forum who told a guy to stop complaining about poor service at clothing stores and put it in writing to the proper authority...that's what I suggested this person do too....put it in writing to the guy who made the statement.

I didn't overlook the quote in the newspaper Vern I'm just sceptical of most of what they use as quotes, having been misquoted myself before. If he said it then it wasn't a very good thing to say and maybe if he was asked about it he might like to rephrase or rethink his position.

Nice, now reverting to personal attacks, what next call her an accociated scum, paid in full member?

I'm not the guy's spokesman nor did I ever say I was. I have met the man on several occasions at official functions and found him to be a staunch supporter of the military and veterans.

Neat, I am both of the type of person he likes to champion, however he felt strongly to use negative words to insult what I like to do in my free time to continue the dedication to my fellow brothers in arms, to preserve their sacrifice to our Country.

You are sympathetic to someone who was elected, to insult me, over my efforts to my country.  Not only in my service, but my dedication to the members who’s items I chose to preserve and research.  To bring to me, and others a human face to a piece of medal attached to some cloth.

I'm suggesting to you that you make him aware of your displeasure, I doubt he's a subscriber to Army.ca. and therefore I would suggest he's not reading your mind on this one.
As this isn't my issue and obviously is yours the ball is in your court not mine.

I suggest you get off of your pulpit, and stop preaching to the quire.  Do as you suggest, and invite him here yourself.  The ball is in your court, and obviously you do not feel that this is a forum that dignifies the presence of Mr. Stoffer to clarify wha he has been misquoted, considering you have been in that situation, what better place than to guide us “Scum” in the right direction and understand his agenda.

Dileas

Tess

 

[armyvern]

No it's not.
We had a guy who was complaining about something and then said he couldn't be bothered to do anything about it. You suggested he write to the appropriate person to point out the deficiency or nothing would get done.
I just suggested the same thing in this thread and provided him with the addresses, links and phone numbers where he could do it.
Peter Stoffer is proposing a Private members bill which if it is supported will set a government policy that will discriminate against him and his friends, according to him. If he does nothing other than complain about it then nothing will get done.
Same thing.

No, we had a guy who was, besides complaining, advising others to go outside of CF guidelines and policy due to a failure of the medal mounting contractor to meet the specs of the government contract.

I told him that it was his RESPONSIBILTY to the taxpayers paying that contractor to put it officially in writing so that the contractor could be forced to comply.

Apples/oranges.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

48th.....you are barking up the wrong tree my friend. I never personally attacked anyone and I did not say I agreed with this person's position. I also didn't say he wouldn't dignify this forum. I said he probably isn't a subscriber. As stated I am not a fan or a suppporter of his. I met the man at official military and veteran functions where he spoke passionately about his support for us.
The way a democracy works is that we elect people to make laws....if we don't like the laws they make we vote them out...if we don't like the laws they are proposing we let them know about it. In a democracy that means writing or protesting or some other nonviolent form of registering ones displeasure
Speaking of personal attacks your allusion to my profession of preaching to the "CHOIR" is an interesting one. I'm not preaching to anyone. I made a suggestion and even provided you with the addresses to do it....by Googling it.
I wish you all the best in your business endeavors.

 

[the 48th regulator]

48th.....you are barking up the wrong tree my friend. I never personally attacked anyone and I did not say I agreed with this person's position. I also didn't say he wouldn't dignify this forum. I said he probably isn't a subscriber. As stated I am not a fan or a suppporter of his. I met the man at official military and veteran functions where he spoke passionately about his support for us.
The way a democracy works is that we elect people to make laws....if we don't like the laws they make we vote them out...if we don't like the laws they are proposing we let them know about it. In a democracy that means writing or protesting or some other nonviolent form of registering ones displeasure
Speaking of personal attacks your allusion to my profession of preaching to the "CHOIR" is an interesting one. I'm not preaching to anyone. I made a suggestion and even provided you with the addresses to do it....by Googling it.
I wish you all the best in your business endeavors.

Open forum.

Can't get any more democratic than that.

Personal attacks, well, I too wish you all the best in your business endeavors.

dileas

tess

 

[X-mo-1979]

Either way you look at it I think we can all agree on one thing.
A few scumbags make a bad name for all collectors.And unfortunately we do not hear stories such as micheals,we only hear of the scams and rip off's.

Not in defence of the NDP member,however I think his intentions were sincere,and was going on the poor reputation that the albeit few collectors make for the rest.

And on another note...how does the NDP get voted into an area with large amounts of military......how?

 

[armyvern]

And on another note...how does the NDP get voted into an area with large amounts of military......how?

Because most military members vote in advance polls in their "home" ridings ... and a heck of a lot of them never switch their riding from where their "hometown" actually is ... to the place where they are posted to.

I live here in NB, yet, since my enrollment I have voted federally in the riding of Sackville-Eastern Shore (Nova Scotia).

 

[Roy Harding]

Did any of you email him and continue the democratic process or are you all just going to sit back and take the media's word for what he said and go on grumbling in your beer? :

Yes I did.

Still waiting for the response (which, to be fair, I don't expect for another few days - based upon past correspondence with MPs/MLAs)

In the meantime - I'm still grumbling in my beer. 

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Either way you look at it I think we can all agree on one thing.
A few scumbags make a bad name for all collectors.And unfortunately we do not hear stories such as micheals,we only hear of the scams and rip off's.

Not in defence of the NDP member,however I think his intentions were sincere,and was going on the poor reputation that the albeit few collectors make for the rest.

And on another note...how does the NDP get voted into an area with large amounts of military......how?

Exactly.
Actually in the Navy a lot of NCMs stay in the same place for most of their career and get posted from ship to ship rather than around the country. It's not unusual for kids to grow up in the same spot and not have to move around. There is a lot of Veterans in that riding and they vote there.
My impression is that Stoffer is working for his constituents and is a populist. His positions on Defence and VA are more in line with the Cons than the NDP. I don't live in that riding nor do I support his party, especially given the position of his leader on military matters. Strangely enough the MP for where the Base is situated is Alexa McDonagh a former leader of the NDP. There are not many military who actually live in that riding though.
Both those MPS show up at all the military functions that they are invited to, along with the Mayor and the local MLAs.

 

[TN2IC]

Okay, I'm a late bloomer on this topic, so please excuse me. But even if Mr Stoffer is NDP, his views are pretty "fair" for the CF. I remember in my Res. days, him visiting the hide, and of course, I was there at the in route. Too bad he didn't give the correct  password.  ;D

My first PW.... a NDPer!