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CAF Security Forces [Split from RCN Anti Drone Weapon]

Until it's legislated that it's not. Parliament sets CRA rules and tax code, not random public servants.
Parliament legislates the Income Tax Act, but much of the nitty gritty is regulatory. That supports your position for the most part; I’m just being pedantic.

Absolutely if the political will were there to provide housing to CAF to help attract and retain, and to not subject members to a tax hit because of it, that could be done.
 
Parliament legislates the Income Tax Act, but much of the nitty gritty is regulatory. That supports your position for the most part; I’m just being pedantic.

Absolutely if the political will were there to provide housing to CAF to help attract and retain, and to not subject members to a tax hit because of it, that could be done.
The Govt could probably issue an OIC today if they felt politically compelled to act on the CAF situation. They don't really care though so situation no change though.
 
no one should have tax payer provided benefits except the CAF?

Funny how we rail against other sectors benefits but when it’s the CAF it’s different.

If people want taxpayer provided benefits that the CAF has (or could have), they should join the CAF.

Do you want to take National Defense seriously or not - keep doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result.
 
If people want taxpayer provided benefits that the CAF has (or could have), they should join the CAF.
isn’t that the counter argument to anything where some people get a benefit others do not? The issue is using that while also lamenting it when it suits you. Public sector benefits get criticized all the time. Pensions, medical dental, pay etc. Maybe those are gold standards to achieve rather than reducing it to the lowest denominator, right?
Do you want to take National Defense seriously or not - keep doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different result.
That does not mean green welfare is the solution.

I’m not against CAF housing, it’s just needs to be smarter than a blanket tax free benefit for 5 years because you can’t adult like everyone else is expected to.
 
That does not mean green welfare is the solution.

That ship has sailed a long time ago.

because you can’t adult like everyone else is expected to.

There is a difference between adulting and junior people, many with families, unable to afford basic needs due to CAF service requirements. Go ahead and tell that new Pte/Cpl posted to Comox or Halifax that their affordability and housing issues are due to adulting. :rolleyes:
 
That ship has sailed a long time ago.
So more green welfare? And here you mentioned taking national defence seriously
There is a difference between adulting and junior people, many with families, unable to afford basic needs due to CAF service requirements. Go ahead and tell that new Pte/Cpl posted to Comox or Halifax that their affordability and housing issues are due to adulting. :rolleyes:
That’s not what I said now is it. I never pictured you as someone championing social causes btw.
 
So more green welfare? And here you mentioned taking national defence seriously

That’s not what I said now is it. I never pictured you as someone championing social causes btw.
Is it a social cause if it only benefits the “elite”? I use the term elite loosely. Drastic changes are needed to recruit and retain. If you want people to sign on the ”unlimited liability” line, there needs to be more incentive. That the CAF will look after you and your family is a big incentive. Housing is a massive problem in this country. Find a way to mitigate that problem for those who are considering serving and the CAF starts to look like a better option.
 
You guys are losing the plot a bit. Pull it back to the national interest being served. In this case it’s ’CAF struggles to recruit and retain and weMre gonna need a bunch of non-spec troops in a few areas that are either high cost of living or are shitty’, those troops are essential enablers to permit Canada to receive and employ essential new capabilities to help reestablish our relevance and credibility.

So, this ties in to a military and economic national security issue. Frame the problem that way and work it that way.

Is housing a factor in attracting and, distinctly and separately, retaining troops? I think we all agree it is. So it‘a not a question of ‘green welfare’, but rather “is there a policy approach that improves a significant and pressing national interest?”

If there is, then just do it. If some other Canadians get upset or envious about it, fuck ‘em. They can join up. This isn’t a question of largesse, it’s a question of defense policy. and placating an increasingly unreliable essential ally.
 
If you look at the DPU, protecting Canada and North America are number 1 and 2 priorities. How is the Army contributing to those priorities on a day-to-day basis?
You'd regret that cynical view if a real war pops off. Planes can't take or hold ground and you air force lot don't tend to like the mud that much. We contribute to one and two by being ready to keep the fight away from the homeland and we will do most of the dying in that case.
 
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Parliament legislates the Income Tax Act, but much of the nitty gritty is regulatory. That supports your position for the most part; I’m just being pedantic.

Absolutely if the political will were there to provide housing to CAF to help attract and retain, and to not subject members to a tax hit because of it, that could be done.
does anyone have a recent example of our government doing anything like this in any context? Of any political affiliation? I’m open to being corrected.

Anything is possible. Likelihood? Zero. You know this attitude this from your interactions with the treasury board I’m sure.
 
With 18s? Shit last time you guys were available to fly for us would be….. a year and a bit ago? I just assume the no fills are a reflection of availability when we get told “we’re no filling because of availability.”



So exactly what I said ? The Divisons are force generators. The Brigades annd Battalions are tactical employers.



Yes and what you said was on regular Brigsde with a regiment of each, and then a Bn of each of those regiments at a base. Hence my confusion.




Only you can’t. Because those sub units perform a wide array of functions and don’t break down that nicely. We organize Bdes the way we do for a reason. You’d also strip them of their second line maintenance in your suggestion. If you went down to one artillery regiment, in our context today, and tried to split it in three it simply wouldn’t work. You would have to triplicated the FSCC and RCPO for the batteries to function. You’d have to triplicated the support functions. Similar with the engineers who operate lots of small bespoke capabilities.



Why should the army take on the responsibility of protecting the Navy and Iwr force? Surely the best people to define the requirements of their own installations defence would be the Navy and the Air Force. I’m no rocket scientist but I tend to assume the protection of a port facility might involved something in the water.




Well a division is usually 10-15 so in theory 4 small divisions would be workable.
A lot of this sounds like the Air Force failed to do its job and now want to the Army to bail them out. The Air Force had years to establish a trade and make it a recruitment priority, instead through sheer incompetency they let it get down to the wire and are now freaking out. Lovely.
 
Is housing a factor in attracting and, distinctly and separately, retaining troops?

Even then, housing affordability is not a widespread issue. Most bases in western Canada, except for those on the Island, seem to be ok for PMQ availability and access to housing in the local markets at current salary levels. Anything east of and including Borden is a struggle, except for maybe Bagotville (never heard anyone complain).
 
does anyone have a recent example of our government doing anything like this in any context? Of any political affiliation? I’m open to being corrected.

Anything is possible. Likelihood? Zero. You know this attitude this from your interactions with the treasury board I’m sure.
My interactions with treasury board? Lol, I’m a first level supervisor cop. I’ve had some weird calls, but never with them.
 
Isn’t that the way here though? Race to the bottom to match the suffering level of Canadians?

no one should have tax payer provided benefits except the CAF?

Funny how we rail against other sectors benefits but when it’s the CAF it’s different.

Just a pedantic point. CAF members are tax payers too. I always feel lik the 'tax payer' statement forgets that.

The caveat being CJOC deployments of course.

You'd regret that cynical view if a real war pops off. Planes can't take or hold ground and you air force lot don't tend to like the mud that much. We contribute to one and two by being ready to keep the fight away from the homeland and we will do most of the dying in that case.

That's assuming Canada actually needs to contribute some sort expeditionary land forces.

I've argued before Canada would be better served keeping the Army at home as territorial defence and vital point security with a small SOF component and using our RCN and RCAF as our forward presence, guarding sea/supply lines and sky's with our allies.
 
A lot of this sounds like the Air Force failed to do its job and now want to the Army to bail them out. The Air Force had years to establish a trade and make it a recruitment priority, instead through sheer incompetency they let it get down to the wire and are now freaking out. Lovely.
The Army has successfully divested air defence, let its indirect fire capabilities wither to almost nothing, let the armoured corps deteriorate, fail to invest in sustainment equipment or personnel, permitted national holdings of ammunition and spare parts to shrink to unsafe levels, and gutted its individual training system to the point where it cannot deliver without massive augmentation from the field force.

But it's the RCAF that failed...
 
A lot of this sounds like the Air Force failed to do its job and now want to the Army to bail them out. The Air Force had years to establish a trade and make it a recruitment priority, instead through sheer incompetency they let it get down to the wire and are now freaking out. Lovely.


The Air Force actually has a trade that encompasses, get this, airfield security.

Air Operations Support Technician

Non-Commissioned Member | Full Time, Part Time

As a member of the military, Air Operations Support Technicians (AOS Tech) provide air maintenance support primarily in the areas of aircraft servicing and handling, general maintenance tasks, maintenance programs and projects, employment and training, supply and tool procurement/management, quality management, technical publication management, and maintenance records management. In supporting aircraft maintenance, AOS Techs perform pre and post flight inspections, aircraft handling tasks such as parking, towing, marshalling, starting, refueling, and cleaning of aircraft.
AOS Techs in the Reg Force may also perform airfield and base security duties, including site and aircraft security, guard and access control duties.



Throw on a signing bonus, some recruitment ads with E-girls in uniform making viral tiktok videos, recruits playing Fortnight in hotel rooms, and mission accomplished.
 
The Army has successfully divested air defence, let its indirect fire capabilities wither to almost nothing, let the armoured corps deteriorate, fail to invest in sustainment equipment or personnel, permitted national holdings of ammunition and spare parts to shrink to unsafe levels, and gutted its individual training system to the point where it cannot deliver without massive augmentation from the field force.

But it's the RCAF that failed...
Have all three services not failed at the institutional level? Failures by the army as you describe don’t mean RCAF hasn’t failed to adequately anticipate and move forward on a timely manner with its own force protection needs.
 
The Air Force actually has a trade that encompasses, get this, airfield security.

Air Operations Support Technician

Non-Commissioned Member | Full Time, Part Time

Throw on a signing bonus, some recruitment ads with E-girls in uniform making viral tiktok videos, recruits playing Fortnight in hotel rooms, and mission accomplished.

This trade has like 50ish open positions….across the entire country. They are also not extra positions, they replace existing tech trades at units which request them.
 
The Air Force actually has a trade that encompasses, get this, airfield security.

Air Operations Support Technician

Non-Commissioned Member | Full Time, Part Time





Throw on a signing bonus, some recruitment ads with E-girls in uniform making viral tiktok videos, recruits playing Fortnight in hotel rooms, and mission accomplished.
Is it referring to dedicated security roles, or simply being part of the WASF rotation?
 
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