CAF Security Forces [Split from RCN Anti Drone Weapon]

[SupersonicMax]

We have MPs for that. Basically you would have MPs do the arresting part. Place them attached to the QRF or some such.

They’re too busy doing « policing » or patrols, and the MP branch has very little will to do anything related to base security. Also, all elements of Wing Security Forces need to report to the Wing CoC, who is responsible to field an operational force, not some other command with little stake in the Wing’s mandate.

 

[dimsum]

More senior CAF members now take home substantially less money than they did before that decision was made, at a time when the cost of living has never been higher & retention is at a near all time low. Let's not lose the forest through the trees)

Before closing this tangent:

Ptes and Cpls, OCdts through Lts (unless they’re in RHUs, in which case they pay less than the typical rental rate already) make more. Depending on location, the cut line is MCpl and Capt where they no longer get CFHD.

But given that the CAF was directed to stop overpaying by $30 million by TB, what were the options?

1. Stop paying PLD for some places, which would have to affect 1/5 of the budget - so probably some major bases like Esquimalt and Halifax which account for at least 1/5 of the total CAF personnel
2. Stop paying PLD after some rank
3. Stop paying PLD altogether

One point that often gets overlooked is that the NCR didn’t have PLD. Now, it has CFHD for the (admittedly smaller percentage) Ptes/Cpls who work at NDHQ, Leitrim, and the various other places.

Edit: @SupersonicMax answered the other part.

 

[brihard]

And we know where to recruit them from. All those security people in the private sector. Can't beat our pay and benifits.

There’s a lot of them we want nowhere near CAF or guns.

 

[Underway]

There’s a lot of them we want nowhere near CAF or guns.

Sure. Just like half the public who apply to the CAF. I see no difference.

They’re too busy doing « policing » or patrols, and the MP branch has very little will to do anything related to base security. Also, all elements of Wing Security Forces need to report to the Wing CoC, who is responsible to field an operational force, not some other command with little stake in the Wing’s mandate.

Yah patrols. If there is a security breach on the base you call MPs. No difference in operations except now the RCAF Security does the initial detainment and hands them over to the MPs. Or shoots them*

*Case by case basis

 

[RangerRay]

So what’s more likely to happen? The MPs will be “re-militarized” and they will go back to doing base security, or we’ll see an “RCAF Regiment” and “RCN Defence Force” stood up?

Or maybe a purple “Security Branch” will be stood up?

 

[dimsum]

So what’s more likely to happen? The MPs will be “re-militarized” and they will go back to doing base security, or we’ll see an “RCAF Regiment” and “RCN Defence Force” stood up?

Or maybe a purple “Security Branch” will be stood up?

Given that the RCAF will be getting the first F-35s and P-8s in 2026, and CQ-9s by 2028, I’m willing to bet the “RCAF Regiment” will be first.

 

[McG]

So what’s more likely to happen? The MPs will be “re-militarized” and they will go back to doing base security, or we’ll see an “RCAF Regiment” and “RCN Defence Force” stood up?

Or maybe a purple “Security Branch” will be stood up?

For security infantry maybe bring back the Canadian Guards? Or maybe this is an opportunity for Canadian Marines?

 

[Jarnhamar]

So what’s more likely to happen? The MPs will be “re-militarized” and they will go back to doing base security

I would imagine that would create a mass exodus of MP leaving for civilian police.

 

[Cloud Cover]

They’re too busy doing « policing » or patrols, and the MP branch has very little will to do anything related to base security. Also, all elements of Wing Security Forces need to report to the Wing CoC, who is responsible to field an operational force, not some other command with little stake in the Wing’s mandate.

Wing Commanders protecting their bodily fluids. Where have we seen this before…

 

[dapaterson]

For security infantry maybe bring back the Canadian Guards? Or maybe this is an opportunity for Canadian Marines?

But then we'll need a new thread on "Canadian Marines Dress Uniforms", one on "Canadian Marines March Past", one on "Canadian Marines perpetuations of other units and resultant battle honours"...

 

[brihard]

I would imagine that would create a mass exodus of MP leaving for civilian police.

As opposed to the current and ongoing mass exodus of MPs leaving for civilian police?

 

[Remius]

But then we'll need a new thread on "Canadian Marines Dress Uniforms", one on "Canadian Marines March Past", one on "Canadian Marines perpetuations of other units and resultant battle honours"...

Canadian Marines to protect Air Force army planes

 

[McG]

But then we'll need a new thread on "Canadian Marines Dress Uniforms", one on "Canadian Marines March Past", one on "Canadian Marines perpetuations of other units and resultant battle honours"...

I can’t help but feel we will have those threads regardless of what the solution becomes … maybe twice as many because the Air Force & Navy will implement different solutions to the common problem (just like we have two active threads discussing this right now).

 

[Jarnhamar]

As opposed to the current and ongoing mass exodus of MPs leaving for civilian police?

It would be even massier.

 

[dapaterson]

It would be even massier.

All the fat MPs would quit too?

 

[Jarnhamar]

All the fat MPs would quit too?

Spec pay and field pay? I guess they might stick around and watch airplanes for $90k a year.

 

[lenaitch]

Pay them like security guards and tell me that again.

Really?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Security-Guard-Salary--in-Ontario#Yearly

You want them armed? A couple of grand per year more (and they are responsible for their own licencing). Either way, they are not police/peace officers and have no authority beyond that of a civilian or agent of the property owner. No access to 'enhanced weaponry' if the circumstances require.

I suspect a permanent service "making use of" aux or reserve personnel is different than trying to establish a full time function solely from part time people.

I also suspect the US, the owners of the tech, would be less than impressed with an attempt to provide security by any means other than a contingent that is directly accountable to the CAF.

 

[Fabius]

Obviously actual force protection and security is going to start rearing its head very very soon with both the RCAF and RCN. Interestingly the Army in Force 2025 had earmarked a Bn to be a Force Protection Bn but the Army was unable to explain to itself what that Bn’s job was.
The way I see it the CAF has a number of options:

1. Establish a Civilian DND police force with federal mandate to police the force, while refocusing the MPs on operational roles to include security for high security areas.

2. Form dedicated military Force protection units with a common MOC for the RCN and RCAF. Work this into an increase in CAF authorized personnel and the SIP.

3. Form a dedicated military Force Protection unit drawing from the whole CAF, same as the SOF units, for overseas tasks and form a number of civilian staffed base forces for those bases needing them ( model these similar to the nuclear security forces already in Canada).

4. Create a rotating 6 month CFTPO task in Canada and fill it with whatever Reserve forces are able to get away from civilian life, with a backbone of regular and class B.

5. Increase the MP trade personnel numbers and form new dedicated reg MP force protection units for the RCN and RCAF.

6. Ignore this nonsense and hope the RCN and RCAF have enough dedicated professionals who will cobble something together to make the Americans leave us alone.

 

[dimsum]

Spec pay and field pay? I guess they might stick around and watch airplanes for $90k a year.

I doubt they’d get field pay.

 

[RangerRay]

My question is if they wanted to be civi cops, why did they sign up for the MPs?