CAF Security Forces [Split from RCN Anti Drone Weapon]

[GK .Dundas]

A lot of Airbases are close to with some exceptions to Army Reserve units you could use them as an interim force until the Airforce could stand up a permanent force.
I can foresee a lot of problems with this solution but at least it's an attempt at a solution.

 

[daftandbarmy]

A lot of Airbases are close to with some exceptions to Army Reserve units you could use them as an interim force until the Airforce could stand up a permanent force.
I can foresee a lot of problems with this solution but at least it's an attempt at a solution.

As long as it doesn't take a month or more to convert Class A troops into Class C, the ones that DAG Green that is, then sure

 

[Kirkhill]

As long as it doesn't take a month or more to convert Class A troops into Class C, the ones that DAG Green that is, then sure

We have Two and One Half Professionals available to secure our airfields. Do they want help or not?

 

[Remius]

A lot of Airbases are close to with some exceptions to Army Reserve units you could use them as an interim force until the Airforce could stand up a permanent force.
I can foresee a lot of problems with this solution but at least it's an attempt at a solution.

The problem is that the army reserves have other priorities that are not Air Force priorities.

 

[The Bread Guy]

They need proper security guards first...

RAF Police and contracted flat feet aren't that hard to get around. Especially on the night shift

Especially when you cut thru the fence ....

Given what little I've been able to read - including that some private sector security is contracted in to do some of the security work, and that local police play some role outside the wire - I suspect it'll be a bit of this when it comes to who dropped the ball ...

 

[daftandbarmy]

Especially when you cut thru the fence ....

Given what little I've been able to read - including that some private sector security is contracted in to do some of the security work, and that local police play some role outside the wire - I suspect it'll be a bit of this when it comes to who dropped the ball ...
View attachment 94095

And attention is predictably now turning to the RAF Station Commander... and before the pile on starts, female RAF station commanders are/have been female:

RAF Brize Norton chief’s views on patriotism revealed​

On Thursday night, a group of Palestine Action protestors managed to enter RAF Brize Norton, spraying paint into a pair of Voyager jet engines and leaving the military base without being caught. The Prime Minister has since called it ‘vandalism’ and there has been talk of proscribing Palestine Action.

But Mr S wants to know how they managed to get onto the base in the first place. The protesters videoed themselves on scooters, zooming about the runway, seemingly without a single soldier noticing them. It’s a major embarrassment, not just for the military but for the country – especially at a time of heightened global tensions. If some keffiyeh-wearing hippies can scoot into our military bases undetected, what of trained foreign operatives hoping to do real damage?

The person in charge of Brize Norton is one Group Captain Louise Henton OBE, who has spent her time in the RAF working in personnel and administration – what we’d call HR on civvy street. Mr S did a bit of digging into her professional history and found that while studying at an Advanced Command and Staff Course in 2019, she wrote an essay for Air and Space Power Review, entitled ‘Military Culture and Human Rights Violations Committed in Iraq in 2003. Has the Military Learnt its Lessons?’ The essay makes for fascinating reading. In it she tells us:

Personality traits such as patriotism and bravery are viewed as desirable within the military. This often encourages overt masculine behaviour amongst its members, therefore stepping outside the norm and challenging the group is often looked down upon and difficult to do. The task-focused approach can also lead to corners being cut if it is deemed that the ends justify the means, that certain actions or behaviours are tolerated if they achieve the desired result. The danger with this is that such undesirable behaviours, if tolerated for long enough, become the norm and the level of standards gradually erodes… Methods of bonding and creating team cohesiveness within the military often involve pranks and banter, but this isolates those who are different to the norm.

Goodness me. Patriotism and masculinity are undesirable? Pranks and banter create a negative military culture? Far be it for Mr S to play armchair general, but perhaps Group Captain Henton ought to spend a little more of her time focusing on the basics, such as securing her base’s perimeter…

RAF Brize Norton chief's views on patriotism revealed

It's a major embarrassment, not just for the military but for the country – especially at a time of heightened global tensions.

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[brihard]

Not knowing the RAF command structure, does anyone here concretely know which position in the hierarchy is responsible and acocuntable for the physical security of the relevant parts of the airfield?

I fear this event is one where noise has immediately drowned out signal. This is a massive security failure and there will be an identifiable person who likely wears it. Who that is may depend in part on what efforts, if any, were made to identify and address shortcomings, and if the larger institution supported that.

Would we do any better?

 

[The Bread Guy]

To be completely fair ....

... Unthinking Patriotism believing only those "like us" belong & matter and toxic masculinity are undesirable? ...

.. FTFY - and that applies outside the military, too. All that said, the buck must stop with the boss. Although I have to say, the motto of the RAF Regiment based there is not aging well this week ....

Not knowing the RAF command structure, does anyone here concretely know which position in the hierarchy is responsible and acocuntable for the physical security of the relevant parts of the airfield?

Good question. This, from the Telegraph:

... Security for the Brize Norton airfield is the responsibility of the RAF Police and Military Provost Guard Service (MPGS), which secures Army, Navy and RAF bases.

But former members have suggested the unit is poorly funded and does not have the resources to effectively secure such large sites.

One RAF source told The Telegraph the level of security across all military was not up to standard, and that “more dogs, more coppers and more money” was needed to properly secure the sensitive sites.

“We have barbed wire around the bases and cameras, but is its perimeter fence completely covered for the miles it takes up?” the source said. “No, because Brize Norton is f---ing huge.”

He added: “If we could have another 50 coppers and 50 dogs the security at Brize Norton would improve. But is the security as tight at a fast jet base? Not really.


“To have watertight security at a base like Brize Norton, you’d have to invest countless people and god knows the amount of money. But maybe that’s what we have to do now if this is the way things are going.”

The source added: “MPGS are responsible for recruiting the right people and getting them in the right places, but they haven’t done that.

“It’s a symptom of a lack of investment on security. We don’t have tens of millions of pounds to put up CCTV across all the bases.”

BBC says the base is also in the catchment area of local cops.

... South East counter terrorism police later confirmed its specialist officers were investigating the incident alongside Thames Valley Police and the Ministry of Defence (MoD) ...

Folks on FB who seem to know a bit about the system say Serco, a private contractor, also has a hand in it. This, from the corporate info machine about its original contract for support work, which was renewed/extended earlier this year:

.... Under the deal, Serco is introducing specialist services at RAF Brize Norton Brize, including airfield services, additional engineering, transport, fuels, logistics, cargo/freight movements, fitness instructors and administration. These add to the existing roles of RAMP services, engineering, security, IT support services, photography and transport services that Serco has been carrying out there since 1997 ...

Chat GPT gives a fair bit of detail, but I can't find sourcing for the nitty gritty it shares about who does what & the heirarchy, so caveat lector.

 

[daftandbarmy]

To be completely fair ....

.. FTFY - and that applies outside the military, too. All that said, the buck must stop with the boss. Although I have to say, the motto of the RAF Regiment based there is not aging well this week ....
View attachment 94099

Good question. This, from the Telegraph:

BBC says the base is also in the catchment area of local cops.

Folks on FB who seem to know a bit about the system say Serco, a private contractor, also has a hand in it. This, from the corporate info machine about its original contract for support work, which was renewed/extended earlier this year:

Chat GPT gives a fair bit of detail, but I can't find sourcing for the nitty gritty it shares about who does what & the heirarchy, so caveat lector.

Having 'tested' RAF airfield defenses during exercises, when everyone was supposedly on high alert, it's amazingly easy to get inside the perimeter wire.

As also proven by these 'Ladies from Hell'

https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2023-08/date-history-what-we-greenham-common-women-achieved

 

[The Bread Guy]

Having 'tested' RAF airfield defenses during exercises, when everyone was supposedly on high alert, it's amazingly easy to get inside the perimeter wire.

Especially when there's as much fence as I suspect around a place as big as Brize Norton.

... As also proven by these 'Ladies from Hell'

https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2023-08/date-history-what-we-greenham-common-women-achieved

I remember speaking to a former Brit squaddie in Winnipeg YEARS ago. He'd manned the barricades, so to speak, at an unspecified base that allegedly housed nukes of some sort around the time of the CND disarmament protests, and said even though he had orders to shoot to kill if protesters got past a certain point, there was some doubt among the ranks regarding how much they'd be backed even if they followed the rules to the letter.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Especially when there's as much fence as I suspect around a place as big as Brize Norton.

I remember speaking to a former Brit squaddie in Winnipeg YEARS ago. He'd manned the barricades, so to speak, at an unspecified base that allegedly housed nukes of some sort around the time of the CND disarmament protests, and said even though he had orders to shoot to kill if protesters got past a certain point, there was some doubt among the ranks regarding how much they'd be backed even if they followed the rules to the letter.

Um...

Our rules of engagement were very specific and did not include the use of deadly force (safely secure for handover to police), we were not armed (beyond the issued MoD pick helve), and the only 'shooting' that might have taken place (no shots were ever fired) may have had something to do with the little (heavily barbed wired and fenced) compound internal to the base that was guarded by US Air Force members. Rumour had it that this was where the cruise missiles were stored, but no one really knew for sure.

Those guys were armed, but we had no interaction with them and had no idea what they were going to do if someone got in there. Our role was to keep British nationals, who happened to be protesters, from coming into contact with them in which we succeeded I believe. Millions of hours of wire watching doesn't do wonders for morale or increasing other perishable military skills, though.

Nevertheless, naked Lesbians did a great job at slithering through multiple levels of barbed wire 'VC Sapper Style' and kept about a battle group's worth of troops engaged 24/7/365 over several years defending one - pretty average sized - airfield not too far from downtown London.

They taught us a great lesson about how hard it is to adequately defend an airfield when a determined foe wants to get in there ...

 

[dapaterson]

Nevertheless, naked Lesbians did a great job at slithering

 

[Kirkhill]

Having 'tested' RAF airfield defenses during exercises, when everyone was supposedly on high alert, it's amazingly easy to get inside the perimeter wire.

As also proven by these 'Ladies from Hell'

https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2023-08/date-history-what-we-greenham-common-women-achieved

Didn't a chap name of David Stirling make a career out of airfields?

 

[Kirkhill]

To be completely fair ....

.. FTFY - and that applies outside the military, too. All that said, the buck must stop with the boss. Although I have to say, the motto of the RAF Regiment based there is not aging well this week ....
View attachment 94099

Good question. This, from the Telegraph:

BBC says the base is also in the catchment area of local cops.

Folks on FB who seem to know a bit about the system say Serco, a private contractor, also has a hand in it. This, from the corporate info machine about its original contract for support work, which was renewed/extended earlier this year:

Chat GPT gives a fair bit of detail, but I can't find sourcing for the nitty gritty it shares about who does what & the heirarchy, so caveat lector.

Got to love those qualifying adjectives. Allows any word to become anything, or nothing.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... naked Lesbians did a great job at slithering through multiple levels of barbed wire 'VC Sapper Style' ... They taught us a great lesson about how hard it is to adequately defend an airfield when a determined foe wants to get in there ...

How hard was it, Johnny? BTW, great garage band name "Naked Slithering Lesbians".

Thanks for the rest of the story.

 

[daftandbarmy]

How hard was it, Johnny? BTW, great garage band name "Naked Slithering Lesbians".

Thanks for the rest of the story.

They were great fanatics. None of them would have won a beauty contest though, sadly

 

[The Bread Guy]

Not knowing the RAF command structure, does anyone here concretely know which position in the hierarchy is responsible and acocuntable for the physical security of the relevant parts of the airfield?

Elon's Grok via X doesn't do a whole lot better based on the questions: "What groups/agencies are responsible for security at RAF Brize Norton, and what is each group's specific role? Please also provide a schematic of how these roles interact in the chain of command during a security breach. Please include linkable references for the information." and "Which position or individual in the hierarchy is responsible and accountable for the physical security of the relevant parts of Brize Norton?"

 

[KevinB]

A lot of Airbases are close to with some exceptions to Army Reserve units you could use them as an interim force until the Airforce could stand up a permanent force.
I can foresee a lot of problems with this solution but at least it's an attempt at a solution.

It isn’t an attempt, other than to cause a great deal of problems.

1) There needs to be a LE component to the external perimeter.
That can be either CivPol or MilPol

2) There needs to be a QRF for internal perimeter that can deal with armed threats.

Neither 1 nor 2 scream PRes competency.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Um...

Our rules of engagement were very specific and did not include the use of deadly force (safely secure for handover to police), we were not armed (beyond the issued MoD pick helve), and the only 'shooting' that might have taken place (no shots were ever fired) may have had something to do with the little (heavily barbed wired and fenced) compound internal to the base that was guarded by US Air Force members. Rumour had it that this was where the cruise missiles were stored, but no one really knew for sure.

Those guys were armed, but we had no interaction with them and had no idea what they were going to do if someone got in there. Our role was to keep British nationals, who happened to be protesters, from coming into contact with them in which we succeeded I believe. Millions of hours of wire watching doesn't do wonders for morale or increasing other perishable military skills, though.

Nevertheless, naked Lesbians did a great job at slithering through multiple levels of barbed wire 'VC Sapper Style' and kept about a battle group's worth of troops engaged 24/7/365 over several years defending one - pretty average sized - airfield not too far from downtown London.

They taught us a great lesson about how hard it is to adequately defend an airfield when a determined foe wants to get in there ...

I heard that on some of the bases the Brits had flocks of geese running around, knowing that the geese would raise stink if anyone would get through the fence.

As for the USAF security people, anecdotal information is that they would shoot.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I heard that on some of the bases the Brits had flocks of geese running around, knowing that the geese would raise stink if anyone would get through the fence.

As for the USAF security people, anecdotal information is that they would shoot.

A good look at part of the RAF Brize Norton fence. Not much scope for 'Goose Platoon' deployments IMHO

Pretty typical for UK based facilities, and easily breached with wire cutters, or just wandering around the perimeter until you can find a spot where critters, like dogs or badgers, have dug underneath the fence.

BBC looks at fence activists breached to enter RAF Brize Norton

Footage posted online by Palestine Action on Friday showed two people inside the Oxfordshire airbase in darkness, spraying a plane with red paint.

www.bbc.com