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CAN Enhanced (Permanent?) Fwd Presence in Latvia

I love how the government announces an increased operational role for the Army in an important region and Army.ca churns out ten different ways to shit on it....
It's not the message itself, it's the feasibility of it. I think this would be a great effort and a really good way to see Canada support NATO...

If:

We weren't currently facing the worst recruiting and retention situation in recent history, we had the amount of equipment to field the kind of force required for this missions, or we had a parliament/government/population that was willing to foot the bill for it.

The fact that we don't only means we're going to do this half assed, piss poorly, and at the expense of Pte Bloggins; all in an attempt to avoid having to pony up 2% GDP.

This could be any colour of government and I would say the same things.
 
It's not the message itself, it's the feasibility of it. I think this would be a great effort and a really good way to see Canada support NATO...

If:

We weren't currently facing the worst recruiting and retention situation in recent history, we had the amount of equipment to field the kind of force required for this missions, or we had a parliament/government/population that was willing to foot the bill for it.

The fact that we don't only means we're going to do this half assed, piss poorly, and at the expense of Pte Bloggins; all in an attempt to avoid having to pony up 2% GDP.

This could be any colour of government and I would say the same things.

So, "CAF is facing some short and long term issues, so doing operational things while these issues exist is bad." Is that what you are saying?
 
So, "CAF is facing some short and long term issues, so doing operational things while these issues exist is bad." Is that what you are saying?
That's a rather pedantic viewpoint of what I said, but essentially, yes.

If I don’t have the kit or pers to support the Commander's Intent, I would be a pretty shit Sig O to say "Yep, we totally can do this, Sir." All while saddling my troop with the task of shitting out comms gear from thin air, and running double shifts. Now just amplify this to a CAF level.

I don’t know if you're walking through the same Bn lines that I am, but I sure as fuck didn't find a 2200 pers CMBG in depth laying around the CQ...
 
I love how the government announces an increased operational role for the Army in an important region and Army.ca churns out ten different ways to shit on it...
Personally I think its a good step BUT when it is (whatever unit you wish to name) turn to deploy will they have plunder other units and the PRes to do so?

In 1992-1993 D Coy 3 VP was actually a company from 2 VP and in 97 B Coy was a 3 VP company.
 
That's a rather pedantic viewpoint of what I said, but essentially, yes.

If I don’t have the kit or pers to support the Commander's Intent, I would be a pretty shit Sig O to say "Yep, we totally can do this, Sir." All while saddling my troop with the task of shitting out comms gear from thin air, and running double shifts. Now just amplify this to a CAF level.

I don’t know if you're walking through the same Bn lines that I am, but I sure as fuck didn't find a 2200 pers CMBG in depth laying around the CQ...

Have you seen the COAs and what they entail for deployment options? I don't recall a "2200 pers CMBG" as a COA. Is your assumption that at some point the Army Commander didn't say "hmm, the government is looking for options - let's do an estimate and present feasible options based on our limitations and constraints."
 
I think he’s simply questioning the ability of the CAF to actually achieve the goal based on the issues it currently faces.
I think @Infanteer comment is a fair statement though. The CAF has problems, sure, but it also has commitments to meet under SSE. The current mission and its expansion (and honestly I don't know how big that is or the nature of what it is as the media lines are all too vague so far) easily fall within the aggregate SSE mission numbers.

We have the kit (or are getting it) and we have the numbers needed. What we're arguing is how sustainable the mission is considering its pretty much indefinite rather than the year to year or two-year basis of Afghanistan.

What we shouldn't forget is that it's still a peacetime mission and puts only a fraction of the stress on the system and the people than Afghanistan did.

Can the CAF--particulalry the army--do better in organizing itself and its sustainment capability now that this seems to be a generational commitment? Absolutely. Can it meet these goals within the current climate? Absolutely as well.

🍻
 
TBH 2,200 personnel shouldn’t be an issue for the CA.
Mech Bn
Armour Sqn
Engineer Squadron
Arty Gun Bty
STA troop
FOO Troop
Bde HQ
SVC Bn
You are basically there.

No idea how it’s going to shake out in actually, as I’m clearly not in on the resultant COA, but the only real personnel crunch should be the LdSH(RC) as 1 in 6 Mech Bn’s isn’t exactly a onerous task, nor should the other positions - and I understood the Bde spots where 1 year?

The true solution I see is simply resurrecting 4 CMBG (maybe not in name) but allocating the Bde to 4 year postings
Assuming it’s a Bde HQ with BattleGroup, going to a 4 year posting cycle should be easily worked in for the units, and individual positions for HQ’s and support structures.
 
I love how the government announces an increased operational role for the Army in an important region and Army.ca churns out ten different ways to shit on it....
I think what you're seeing is a well-founded suspicion that this government does not keep many of its promises - unless it involves putting a cannabis store of every street corner.
 
Have you seen the COAs and what they entail for deployment options? I don't recall a "2200 pers CMBG" as a COA. Is your assumption that at some point the Army Commander didn't say "hmm, the government is looking for options - let's do an estimate and present feasible options based on our limitations and constraints."
You're privy to more than I am in that regard, I assume. I'm sure there are COAs in place, however, what are the limiting factors of "2200 to Latvia"? Res F activation? Reallocation of forces and eqpt from Bde to Bde? Do we provide for 2 Rotos and we are left without a chair when the music stops?

All I do know for certain is that we're not even a full year into the CDS ordered "Reconstitution", 16-20K pers short, and have seen a 35% loss of intake at the CFRCs.

Unless this is looking like a "build it and they will come" solution to our woes, forgive me my skepticism.
 
Have you seen the COAs and what they entail for deployment options? I don't recall a "2200 pers CMBG" as a COA. Is your assumption that at some point the Army Commander didn't say "hmm, the government is looking for options - let's do an estimate and present feasible options based on our limitations and constraints."
If it wasn’t a COA why is that the announcement?
Honestly having seen some of the COAs generated for various things by the Army staff and various Commands I have to wonder if anyone working on them passed ATOC or AOC etc. Rarely have I seen anything imaginative or truely distinct. That leads to my skepticism, perhaps unfairly.

I think @Infanteer comment is a fair statement though. The CAF has problems, sure, but it also has commitments to meet under SSE. The current mission and its expansion (and honestly I don't know how big that is or the nature of what it is as the media lines are all too vague so far) easily fall within the aggregate SSE mission numbers.

We have the kit (or are getting it) and we have the numbers needed. What we're arguing is how sustainable the mission is considering its pretty much indefinite rather than the year to year or two-year basis of Afghanistan.

What we shouldn't forget is that it's still a peacetime mission and puts only a fraction of the stress on the system and the people than Afghanistan did.

Can the CAF--particulalry the army--do better in organizing itself and its sustainment capability now that this seems to be a generational commitment? Absolutely. Can it meet these goals within the current climate? Absolutely as well.

🍻

This I agree wholeheartedly with.
 
I think @Infanteer comment is a fair statement though. The CAF has problems, sure, but it also has commitments to meet under SSE. The current mission and its expansion (and honestly I don't know how big that is or the nature of what it is as the media lines are all too vague so far) easily fall within the aggregate SSE mission numbers.

We have the kit (or are getting it) and we have the numbers needed. What we're arguing is how sustainable the mission is considering its pretty much indefinite rather than the year to year or two-year basis of Afghanistan.

What we shouldn't forget is that it's still a peacetime mission and puts only a fraction of the stress on the system and the people than Afghanistan did.

Can the CAF--particulalry the army--do better in organizing itself and its sustainment capability now that this seems to be a generational commitment? Absolutely. Can it meet these goals within the current climate? Absolutely as well.

🍻
It was a "hey, look over here" effort by the gov't to obfuscate the fact that we will not increase NATO spending commitments. Another mobius strip.
 
It's not the message itself, it's the feasibility of it. I think this would be a great effort and a really good way to see Canada support NATO...

If:

We weren't currently facing the worst recruiting and retention situation in recent history, we had the amount of equipment to field the kind of force required for this missions, or we had a parliament/government/population that was willing to foot the bill for it.

The fact that we don't only means we're going to do this half assed, piss poorly, and at the expense of Pte Bloggins; all in an attempt to avoid having to pony up 2% GDP.

This could be any colour of government and I would say the same things.
Isn't this the same mission where they currently are months behind on paying people their per diem, and they had to bring in a tiger team of clerks to catch up?

Hopefully the increase comes with suitable admin to do the basics; that's pretty embarassing.

Everyone wants more 'teeth' while hoping the things the 'tail' do just magically sort themselves out.
 
Asking the question.

Would there not be a ton of people wanting to go to Europe and Latvia? I thought it was nice but I just got a one day visit. Not as expensive as other European countries plus with Estonia next door even cheaper.

We did 40 years in Germany......did we forget how?

Why do 6 months? Move the family?
 
Asking the question.

Would there not be a ton of people wanting to go to Europe and Latvia? I thought it was nice but I just got a one day visit. Not as expensive as other European countries plus with Estonia next door even cheaper.

We did 40 years in Germany......did we forget how?

Why do 6 months? Move the family?
Moving families requires a large infra footprint, to a place where we currently have people ten to a room. Might be a long term objective, but can't see that happening in the near term.
 
Moving families requires a large infra footprint, to a place where we currently have people ten to a room. Might be a long term objective, but can't see that happening in the near term.
Is that actually what the living quarters are like there?
 
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