• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

First of all....

There is a plan.

Implications of the analysis for Canada


it is dangerous for small countries to become too dependent on any large trading partner,

there is one economist whose work is very relevant in this moment: Albert Hirschman, author of a striking book published in 1945, National Power and the Structure of Foreign Trade.In recent decades, this work has gone largely ignored,

.... The economist Orris Herfindahl later used Hirschman’s ideas to create an index measuring corporate concentration, which was adopted by the US Department of Justice, among others.

... Neoliberal thinkers often see politics as a derivative of economics. But Hirschman viewed this in reverse, arguing that “so long as a sovereign nation can interrupt trade with any country at its own will, the contest for more national power permeates trade relations”.And he viewed “commerce as . . . a model of imperialism which did not require ‘conquest’ to subordinate weaker trading partners”, as Adelman says. This is close to how the Trump advisers parse economics. But it is very different from how Adam Smith or David Ricardo saw trade flows (which they assumed involved comparably powerful players).Some economists are leaning into this shift.

Just after Trump spoke, a trio of American economists — Christopher Clayton, Matteo Maggiori and Jesse Schreger — released a paper outlining the growing field of “geoeconomics”, inspired by Hirschman.

... three themes that investors should pay attention to.

First, and most obviously, the trio’s analysis shows that it is dangerous for small countries to become too dependent on any large trading partner, and they offer tools to measure such vulnerability.

Second, they argue that the source of America’s hegemonic power today is not manufacturing (since China controls key supply chains) but is instead financial and structured around the dollar-based system.Trump’s tariffs, therefore, are essentially an attempt to challenge another hegemon (China), but his policies around finance are an effort to defend existing dominance. (The hegemony in technological power, I would argue, is still contested.) This distinction matters for other countries trying to respond.

Third, the trio argue that hegemonic power does not work in a symmetrical manner. If a bully has an 80 per cent market share, say, it usually has 100 per cent control; but if market share slips to 70 per cent, hegemonic power crumbles faster, since weaklings can see alternatives.

This explains why the US has failed to control Russia via financial sanctions. And the pattern may play out more widely if other countries react to Trump’s aggressive tariffs by imagining and developing alternatives to the dollar-based financial system. Bullies seem impregnable — until they are not.

 
The world needs to build a trade ring fence around the US and let them figure out how they're going to trade with people who don't want to trade with them.
 
Can it work?

Not all companies choose profit over patriotism. Many, such as Nokona baseball gloves, Airstream travel trailers, Harley-Davidson motorcycles, and All-Clad kitchen pans, have long embraced the argument Trump is making now: “Yes, you may pay a bit more, but you’re supporting American jobs and families while receiving superior quality.” The continued success of these companies proves that Trump’s tariffs can work.

Is it working?

There are already clear signs that Trump’s tariffs are yielding results. Since Trump took office in January, more than $1.7 trillion in new investment has poured into the United States. General Motors is ramping up vehicle production in Indiana. Apple has announced a $500 billion investment that will create 20,000 American jobs. GE Aerospace is investing $1 billion across 16 states. Even foreign firms, including Japan’s SoftBank and Taiwanese semiconductor giant TSMC, are increasing their investments in the U.S. economy.

Has it always been an off the wall idea?

Only if you consider the pre-Obama Democrats off the wall.

Democrats once sounded a lot like Trump when warning about the dangers of trade deficits and unfair tariffs. A resurfaced clip from 1996 shows Nancy Pelosi arguing against granting China Most Favored Nation status, lamenting that while the United States imposed a mere 2 percent tariff on Chinese goods, China levied a 35 percent tariff on U.S. exports. In 2008, Barack Obama labeled NAFTA a Wall Street scam. Bernie Sanders has spent decades excoriating free trade.

For the record

In 1999, he (Trump) changed his party affiliation to the Independence Party of New York. In August 2001, Trump changed his party affiliation to Democratic. In September 2009, he changed his party affiliation back to the Republican Party.

 
Nobody is going to ringfence the US any more than they did when Nixon trashed the gold standard in 1971.

Countries, including Canada, the UK, Australia and the EU are lining up to renegotiate trade deals.

Elizabeth MacDonald
@LizMacDonaldFOX

A dozen nations now talking tariff and trade deals with the Trump White House: Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Japan, India, South Korea, Australia, the U.K., Israel, Argentina, Canada and Mexico
 
Nobody is going to ringfence the US any more than they did when Nixon trashed the gold standard in 1971.

Countries, including Canada, the UK, Australia and the EU are lining up to renegotiate trade deals.
Canada & Mexico had negotiated a trade agreement with Trump, and Trump dropped a steaming coiler on that. He is not a man of his word, and he will flip on his own agreements. The countries lining up to negotiate with Trump today are either still in some state of denial or they think “ya, sure - fool me thrice.”

You spend a lot of time sane washing Trump’s antics. He is not a stable genius nor multi dimensional chess player (probably struggles in 2D). His objective is personal enrichment & glory, not a national best interest. He is unrestrained by any belief that he should understand a complex system before turning it on its head to make to “better”. He has a trail of failed business endeavours in his wake and he is making good progress toward adding a whole country to his legacy of failure.

… of course, he is good at downloading the consequences of his failure onto poorer people while he walks away with fatter pockets.
 
of course, he is good at downloading the consequences of his failure onto poorer people while he walks away with fatter pockets.
If you control the occurrences of financial disasters as well as the steps of recovery, you and your co-conspirators can accumulate an unbelievable amount of wealth. It boggles the mind to consider how many enablers this nonsense has and how, in all likelihood, they will get away Scot-free.

🍻
 
But from a rest of the world perspective, the takeaway is the US cannot be trusted under Trump, and other nations are best to work around the US. If North American companies want unfettered access to global trade markets, they are best served moving to Canada or Mexico … and we should be telling them as much.
 
But from a rest of the world perspective, the takeaway is the US cannot be trusted under Trump, and other nations are best to work around the US. If North American companies want unfettered access to global trade markets, they are best served moving to Canada or Mexico … and we should be telling them as much.
We can try. The instant some sort of resolution is reached that removes the tariff pain point, all the reasons companies have for locating in the US remain and the one big reason for moving out disappears. If Canada wants to attract foreign companies, it should aim to provide all the advantages that US presence provides. To do that, we'd have to understand what those are, and then we might find we are culturally incapable of adjusting. But first enumerate what those are.
 
The instant some sort of resolution is reached that removes the tariff pain point, all the reasons companies have for locating in the US remain and the one big reason for moving out disappears.
The US has demonstrated itself to be unreliable. What advantage is there to try and participate in global trade from within a country that will turn tariffs on and off like a toddler with a light switch? Business likes a stable environment to work from. Without substantial systemic change, that stability is demonstrably not in the US.
 
The instant some sort of resolution is reached that removes the tariff pain point, all the reasons companies have for locating in the US remain and the one big reason for moving out disappears.

Gotta quibble with you on that: the volatility and unpredictability remains. If Trump uses tariffs as a cudgel, hurts a lot of businesses, but feels that he has achieved some policy or political objective, what’s to stop him from doing that again? Businesses crave stability, predictability, and reliability- in taxes, trading partners, rule of law… Trump has shown that he’ll incompetently and abruptly upend the rule set if it suits him. That’s one factor that businesses will have to contend with as long as he’s in power. He’s not the sort to learn lessons humbly.

EDIT TO ADD: Tried to post that a while ago but the site’s acting up on my phone. McG beat me to the same point.
 
The US has demonstrated itself to be unreliable. What advantage is there to try and participate in global trade from within a country that will turn tariffs on and off like a toddler with a light switch? Business likes a stable environment to work from. Without substantial systemic change, that stability is demonstrably not in the US.
Anyone who thought the US was "reliable" was not considering past events on a long enough time horizon, or never bothered to understand US voters (a fatal ignorance), or assumed that a sizeable fraction of Americans could basically be forever told without consequences "you can't have that" by a minority establishment, among other probable failings.
 
The US has demonstrated itself to be unreliable. What advantage is there to try and participate in global trade from within a country that will turn tariffs on and off like a toddler with a light switch? Business likes a stable environment to work from. Without substantial systemic change, that stability is demonstrably not in the US.

Gotta quibble with you on that: the volatility and unpredictability remains. If Trump uses tariffs as a cudgel, hurts a lot of businesses, but feels that he has achieved some policy or political objective, what’s to stop him from doing that again? Businesses crave stability, predictability, and reliability- in taxes, trading partners, rule of law… Trump has shown that he’ll incompetently and abruptly upend the rule set if it suits him. That’s one factor that businesses will have to contend with as long as he’s in power. He’s not the sort to learn lessons humbly.

EDIT TO ADD: Tried to post that a while ago but the site’s acting up on my phone. McG beat me to the same point.
I agree with both of you on business wanting "stability, predictability, and reliability" but we need to look in the mirror as a nation as well. Canada has been less than consistently pro-business in our policies. Whomever wins this election needs to realize this and make the effort to work with the other party to at least come to a bi-partisan agreement on the very highest level of policy direction...kind of like the Republicans and Democrats had at one time on foreign policy objectives. We won't attract large scale foreign investment if our policies change radically every four years when a different party is elected. Both parties will have to move toward the centre in order to achieve that.
 
I am sure Canada has room to improve, but we look like a much more hospitable business environment than the rollercoaster of insanity to our south.

As a side, “bipartisan” is an American term that reflects their entrenched two party system. That binary choice at election time is part of the American problem (and FPTP makes us vulnerable to follow). In Canada, you might use the terms “multipartisan” or “all-party” or even “cross floor.”
 
New developments from the egg front.

Until now, the only eggs imported into Canada, under a limited tariff-free quota, have come from the U.S., the Egg Farmers of Canada confirmed for Farmers Forum.

Alt: https://archive.ph/WnmO2
 
VDH holds forth on what's really going on...

Hanson has been a Trump sycophant for years, so no surprise he’d be part of the ‘5D chess’ groupies trying to defend this inane ‘bull in a China shop’ approach to trade. He equates not actually having a coherent strategy with not wanting to be ‘constrained’ by one. Meanwhile the U.S. is badly damaging its reputation as a stable and reliable trade partner, and leaving everyone guessing about their next move and its timing. That’s self-defeating by any reckoning. The flip flop on electronics tariffs against China shows just how completely Trump is winging it, and how he and his crew have utterly failed to game this out.

Being very charitable to Hanson, a problem with historians is that they assume that world leaders are, fundamentally, well informed and rational actors who receive and at least consider sound advice. Trump breaks their system.
 
Hanson has been a Trump sycophant for years, so no surprise he’d be part of the ‘5D chess’ groupies trying to defend this inane ‘bull in a China shop’ approach to trade. He equates not actually having a coherent strategy with not wanting to be ‘constrained’ by one. Meanwhile the U.S. is badly damaging its reputation as a stable and reliable trade partner, and leaving everyone guessing about their next move and its timing. That’s self-defeating by any reckoning. The flip flop on electronics tariffs against China shows just how completely Trump is winging it, and how he and his crew have utterly failed to game this out.

Being very charitable to Hanson, a problem with historians is that they assume that world leaders are, fundamentally, well informed and rational actors who receive and at least consider sound advice. Trump breaks their system.

He's a neo-Nazi, and a good person to follow to get a sense of some of the less emotional rationale driving the MAGA movement.

Whereas Fox News and CNN just shout at each other alot ;)
 
More of this when possible, please and thank you. Love to see it.

Alt: https://archive.ph/Ev6Ol

Star Wars GIF
 
Back
Top