CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Good2Golf]

I'd strip him of his license for life. He's a menace on the roads.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/coun-george-darouze-texting-driving-livestream-1.5814258

And all the OPS constables on the road… Edited to add (after all, not everyone gets to drive around with a PC beside them…one who almost took me out one day traveling along Bank St)

 

[GK .Dundas]

No, the parties survive. It’s more like one of those messy divorces where at least one side puts more effort and money into screwing the other, and end up coming out with far less in the end.

How many times has Trump been divorced ?
Crap ! We're doooomed!

 

[Kirkhill]

This article suggests another side to Trump's fixation on tariffs.

Art Of The Deal: Trading The Income Tax For Tariffs

Is there a lousier system for collecting government revenue than the one we have now? None that we can think of.

issuesinsights.com

While speaking Saturday in Las Vegas, President Donald Trump suggested, as he had during the 2024 campaign, replacing the federal income tax with tariffs on foreign imports. We don’t need to see an economic analysis to believe this is debate worth having. Of all the good Trump could do as president in the next four years, eliminating the federal income tax would be one of his greatest achievements.

“If the tariffs work out like I think, a thing like that could happen, if you want to know the truth,” he said.

Trump also reminded the fussbudgets and change-fearing conventionalists who will predict that without a federal income tax the country will fall into a decline that until the 16th Amendment was ratified in 1913, there was no federal income tax. That’s right, establishing a federal income tax required a change to the Constitution. The Supreme Court in 1895 struck down an effort in the year before to establish a national income tax. It was, said five justices, unconstitutional.

An income tax at any level is insidious. Internal taxes, Thomas Jefferson said, were an assault on liberty, which “covered our land with officers and opened our doors to their intrusions.”

The federal income is an economic assassin. According to the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, Americans burned more than 7.9 billion of their hours last year complying with IRS filing and reporting requirements.

“This is equal to 3.8 million full-time workers doing nothing but tax return paperwork — roughly equal to the population of Los Angeles — and nearly 46 times the workforce at the IRS,” says Scott Hodge of the Tax Foundation.

“If we assume a reasonable hourly wage, the 7.9 billion hours Americans spend complying with the tax code costs the economy roughly $413 billion in lost productivity,” Hodge continues. “In addition, the IRS estimates that Americans spend roughly $133 billion annually in out-of-pocket costs to comply with the tax code. This brings the total compliance costs to $546 billion, or nearly 2% of GDP.”

There are also social costs and opportunity costs imposed by the federal income tax.

The IRS must go but the federal government will still need a revenue stream for funding (though it could do with far less than it rakes in). We have supported a national sales or consumption tax to replace the federal income tax, but we are wide open to the possibility of trading the income tax for tariffs. Yes, the latter will have their own negative impacts on the economy and personal finances. But they can’t be worse than the damage caused by income taxes.

Since tariffs provide only a small slice of federal revenue now, probably less than 2%, rates would have to be raised – but just enough to fund the state that is far leaner than today’s leviathan, in line with the smaller pre-income tax government, and not so high as to negatively affect economic behavior. Slashing Washington has to be part of any discussion about changes in our tax system.

...

With that in mind -

Donald Trump issues major threat to nearly 90,000 IRS agents

Trump has threatened to fire thousands of IRS agents—or relocate them to the United States-Mexico border.

www.newsweek.com

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/11/politics/republican-irs-funding-87000-agents/index.html

If he follows through he has just converted his Internal Revenue Service to his External Revenue Service and created a larger Border Force.
The US Customs Service Redivivus?

United States Customs Service - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[The Bread Guy]

This article suggests another side to Trump's fixation on tariffs.

Art Of The Deal: Trading The Income Tax For Tariffs

Is there a lousier system for collecting government revenue than the one we have now? None that we can think of.

issuesinsights.com

More proof of "it's about bringing in sweet, sweet revenue".

 

[Kirkhill]

Victor Davis Hanson is always a good read.

Trump and His New Frenemies, Abroad and at Home › American Greatness

President Trump recently gave a video talk to the World Economic Forum (WEF) assemblage in Davos. He expressed fondness for Europe. He praised many for their attendance—and then tore into the evils of…

amgreatness.com

 

[The Bread Guy]

Excellent edition

A lot of people will hear things said on these forums for some time

The column based on the "libertarian free association" podcast here

Dispatch from the Front Line: Asshole Nation, Assemble!

What would the most uber-competitive and productive version of Canada look like if we thoroughly abandoned any desire to be nice?

www.readtheline.ca

Also readable in PDF format here, shared under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act (R.S.C., 1985, c. C-42)

 

[daftandbarmy]

Victor Davis Hanson is always a good read.

Trump and His New Frenemies, Abroad and at Home › American Greatness

President Trump recently gave a video talk to the World Economic Forum (WEF) assemblage in Davos. He expressed fondness for Europe. He praised many for their attendance—and then tore into the evils of…

amgreatness.com

I watched that exchange with the same awe... whether the Euros follow through or not will be interesting to see.

 

[FSTO]

A good explanation on why expending energy fighting Trump's tariffs may be a bad idea.

 

[Kirkhill]

A good explanation on why expending energy fighting Trump's tariffs may be a bad idea.

A problem for me.

David Herle.

Just watching this podcast and watching David's body language I sense that he has a hate on. And I don't think it is limited to his feelings towards Trump.

Herle, a partner with Rubicon Strategy, was previously a senior partner at Earnscliffe Strategy Group and a top advisor to former Prime Minister Paul Martin. He was Liberal Party of Canada campaign co-chair for 2004 and 2006. During the 2004 election, as prospects for the Liberals began looking poor, Herle was a strong advocate of attacking Martin's primary opponent, Stephen Harper. In the 2006 election, a similar strategy did not result in similar success.

Herle was managing co-chair for Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne's successful reelection campaign in 2014 and again in 2018 when the Ontario Liberals finished in third place. During the several years that Herle worked for the Ontario Liberal government, his firm was paid $3.4 million.

An aggressive economic nationalist. Purveyor of Liberal party doctrines. Ontario centric. Spoiling for a fight. Not overly receptive to Trevor Tombe's suggestion that Canada do "the other thing" and make itself more competitive.

Tombe suggests opening the market, dropping inter-provincial barriers, finding new markets, new pipelines and ports, making Canada more attractive to international, and for that matter, domestic investors. Why are people sending twice as much investment capital to the States as they are spending in Canada? Perhaps it is because the Canadian government, Wynne's government, Herle's government, has given them nothing to invest in for the past 9 years.

Jack Mintz: Canada has lost $225 billion in foreign investment since 2016

Ottawa boasts of large inflows of capital but outflows are even bigger and if Canadians prefer to invest elsewhere that's bad news. Read on.

financialpost.com

Scrapped: How nearly $150 billion worth of energy projects have been shelved in Canada

A look at some of the major energy projects over the past few years that never saw the light of day

financialpost.com

VIDEO: Canada Has Seen $670 Billion in Cancelled or Suspended Natural Resource Projects Since 2015

Canada has seen hundreds of billions of dollars in cancelled or suspended natural resource projects over the past decade. Learn more about what this means for Canadians, and how natural resources can help turn our economy around.

www.canadaaction.ca

Herle wants to fight. Great. I suggest that part of our problems arise from Herle's underlying impulse to fight the US, on all fronts, even before the coming of Donald Trump.

We have Canadians that share the Ayatollah's vision of the US as the Great Satan.

...

Personally, I find myself more in tune with Tombe. I don't know if Trump is mad, incredibly bright, incredibly dumb, an autocrat or a figurehead. I do know that policies are changing and we are going to have to do something to nullify their effects.

As the Globe and Mail editorial suggested - we are being pressured to do stuff that we should have done long ago and had we done so then we would be much better placed to weather this set of policy changes.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A good explanation on why expending energy fighting Trump's tariffs may be a bad idea.

More from the guest on this issue here:

Trevor Tombe: Premier Smith is right that restricting oil exports is a bad idea. Here’s a better option

thehub.ca

 

[Halifax Tar]

A problem for me.

David Herle.

Just watching this podcast and watching David's body language I sense that he has a hate on. And I don't think it is limited to his feelings towards Trump.



An aggressive economic nationalist. Purveyor of Liberal party doctrines. Ontario centric. Spoiling for a fight. Not overly receptive to Trevor Tombe's suggestion that Canada do "the other thing" and make itself more competitive.

Tombe suggests opening the market, dropping inter-provincial barriers, finding new markets, new pipelines and ports, making Canada more attractive to international, and for that matter, domestic investors. Why are people sending twice as much investment capital to the States as they are spending in Canada? Perhaps it is because the Canadian government, Wynne's government, Herle's government, has given them nothing to invest in for the past 9 years.

Jack Mintz: Canada has lost $225 billion in foreign investment since 2016

Ottawa boasts of large inflows of capital but outflows are even bigger and if Canadians prefer to invest elsewhere that's bad news. Read on.

financialpost.com

Scrapped: How nearly $150 billion worth of energy projects have been shelved in Canada

A look at some of the major energy projects over the past few years that never saw the light of day

financialpost.com

VIDEO: Canada Has Seen $670 Billion in Cancelled or Suspended Natural Resource Projects Since 2015

Canada has seen hundreds of billions of dollars in cancelled or suspended natural resource projects over the past decade. Learn more about what this means for Canadians, and how natural resources can help turn our economy around.

www.canadaaction.ca

Herle wants to fight. Great. I suggest that part of our problems arise from Herle's underlying impulse to fight the US, on all fronts, even before the coming of Donald Trump.

We have Canadians that share the Ayatollah's vision of the US as the Great Satan.

...

Personally, I find myself more in tune with Tombe. I don't know if Trump is mad, incredibly bright, incredibly dumb, an autocrat or a figurehead. I do know that policies are changing and we are going to have to do something to nullify their effects.

As the Globe and Mail editorial suggested - we are being pressured to do stuff that we should have done long ago and had we done so then we would be much better placed to weather this set of policy changes.

I tend to agree with your positions here.

 

[FSTO]

Herle is a old time liberal from Saskatchewan, which is as rare as Palm trees on the shores of the South Saskatchewan River.

But the LPC is wedded to the Liberal World Order which allowed Canada to ignore foreign responsibilities and concentrate being the mayor of Toronto.
The idea of Canada getting the elbows up and not being the nice guy is totally off base to their sensibilities.

 

[QV]

Canada could do some things immediately to mitigate the looming economic impact (dropping interprovincial trade barriers, dropping obstacles to progress). But the big things we should have been doing all a long that might have avoided or at least lessoned this situation (2+% defence spending, pipelines in every direction, LNG terminals on coasts) would take many years to bear fruit. Couple all that with an ineffective and errant federal government and senior bureaucracy, we could be in big trouble and will feel the pain.

 

[Kirkhill]

Herle is a old time liberal from Saskatchewan, which is as rare as Palm trees on the shores of the South Saskatchewan River.

But the LPC is wedded to the Liberal World Order which allowed Canada to ignore foreign responsibilities and concentrate being the mayor of Toronto.
The idea of Canada getting the elbows up and not being the nice guy is totally off base to their sensibilities.

Unless it is to elbow the US?

Gordie Howe and his elbows were from Saskatchewan.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/gordie-howe-hockey-great-dies-b-c-friends-mourn-giants-vancouver-1.3629232

 

[The Bread Guy]

An aggressive economic nationalist. Purveyor of Liberal party doctrines. Ontario centric. Spoiling for a fight. Not overly receptive to Trevor Tombe's suggestion that Canada do "the other thing" and make itself more competitive.

Big disclaimer: haven't listened to this one yet, but I will and add to these points if I hear/see something causes me to rethink.

In the bigger picture, a podcast with a host with a point of view? Interviewing someone with a different one, and questioning them on it? He does wear his Martin-ite Team Red colours on his sleeve, but is he any different than other podcasters all over the political spectrum looking at the world wearing their particularly-coloured glasses? At least he interviews people with different viewpoints, and has the weekly get together with Team Blue & Team Orange partisans duking it out.

Jack Mintz: Canada has lost $225 billion in foreign investment since 2016

Ottawa boasts of large inflows of capital but outflows are even bigger and if Canadians prefer to invest elsewhere that's bad news. Read on.

financialpost.com

Scrapped: How nearly $150 billion worth of energy projects have been shelved in Canada

A look at some of the major energy projects over the past few years that never saw the light of day

financialpost.com

VIDEO: Canada Has Seen $670 Billion in Cancelled or Suspended Natural Resource Projects Since 2015

Canada has seen hundreds of billions of dollars in cancelled or suspended natural resource projects over the past decade. Learn more about what this means for Canadians, and how natural resources can help turn our economy around.

www.canadaaction.ca

Good bits of info these.

... Herle wants to fight. Great. I suggest that part of our problems arise from Herle's underlying impulse to fight the US, on all fronts, even before the coming of Donald Trump. We have Canadians that share the Ayatollah's vision of the US as the Great Satan ...

That's a lot of extrapolation from watching/listening to one podcast.

Some say we should stand up to a bully (like Russia against Ukraine), others say we should be doing what's being asked (go along to get along). The political reception Rorschach part comes with who's doing the asking, I guess.

 

[Good2Golf]

Standing up to a bully is one thing, continuing to antagonize a bully for nearly a decade while you do nothing to learn to fight in those years….then feigning surprise as he finally hauls back and punches you….well that shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

 

[FSTO]

^^
Listen to the Curse of Politics.

Herle is the host, but he has a Liberal, Conservative, and Dipper strategists and they all have been SAVAGE towards Trudeau and his team for the past 2 years.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Standing up to a bully is one thing, continuing to antagonize a bully for nearly a decade while you do nothing to learn to fight in those years….then feigning surprise as he finally hauls back and punches you….well that shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.

Agree 1000% that a lot of stuff that's being talked about should have been done already, especially given the timeline of the same boss at the helm.

Say a lot of things about Bush Jr., Obama and Biden, but I think "bully" won't be the first term to come to mind to most people.

^^
Listen to the Curse of Politics.

Herle is the host, but he has a Liberal, Conservative, and Dipper strategists and they all have been SAVAGE towards Trudeau and his team for the past 2 years.

More than once, Herle's end-of-cast highlight (as well as his fellow Team Red'er) has been to tell JT to go, in fact.

Also, on occasion, he brings together former Chiefs of Staff for Red, Blue and Orange PM's/Premiers to discuss things from the point of view of those operators as well.

Ian Brodie – first Chief of Staff to Stephen Harper, and central to the founding of the CPC. Now … Professor of Political Science at the University of Calgary.

Tim Murphy – former Chief of Staff to Paul Martin. Now ... the newly installed EVP and Chief Strategic Affairs Officer at AECON.

Brian Topp – former Chief of Staff to Rachel Notley in Alberta, Deputy Chief to Roy Romanow in Saskatchewan, one of the architects of Jack Layton’s Orange Wave. Now ... he’s a founding partner at GT&co.

Latest episode of that combo here:

 

[Kirkhill]

Big disclaimer: haven't listened to this one yet, but I will and add to these points if I hear/see something causes me to rethink.

In the bigger picture, a podcast with a host with a point of view? Interviewing someone with a different one, and questioning them on it? He does wear his Martin-ite Team Red colours on his sleeve, but is he any different than other podcasters all over the political spectrum looking at the world wearing their particularly-coloured glasses? At least he interviews people with different viewpoints, and has the weekly get together with Team Blue & Team Orange partisans duking it out.

Good bits of info these.

That's a lot of extrapolation from watching/listening to one podcast.

Some say we should stand up to a bully (like Russia against Ukraine), others say we should be doing what's being asked (go along to get along). The political reception Rorschach part comes with who's doing the asking, I guess.

Fair comment. I admit to my own bias. Too many years of being told the good idea fairy has come up with yet another Wynne-Wynne proposal?

 

[The Bread Guy]

Fair comment. I admit to my own bias. Too many years of being told the good idea fairy has come up with yet another Wynne-Wynne proposal?

Can't blame you, and at least we're happy to admit it. What I try to do is recognize my bias, but not to let my filter close down so much that I miss the kernels of truth they have to offer. Nobody shares everything, but everybody shares something.

At least Herle wears his on his sleeve pretty prominently, as do many podcasters/commentators, but there's also those who claim to be "non-partisan" when they really ain't.