CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Czech_pivo]

Cane sugar also reduces the glucose index of foods, reducing risks of type 2 diabetes.

Not disagreeing with any of this. I was just pointing out that this pivot amounts to the 4th nail that Trump has directly added to the coffin of the American farmer in the last 6 months.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not disagreeing with any of this. I was just pointing out that this pivot amounts to the 4th nail that Trump has directly added to the coffin of the American farmer in the last 6 months.

I suspect corn farmers can pivot to another crop, it will do in some farms who have completely optimized for corn. A quick look on the web show that corn farmers need to do crop rotations or risk depleting their fields, so there is the possibility of reducing the amount of corn and growing a crop that is also profitable.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I suspect corn farmers can pivot to another crop, it will do in some farms who have completely optimized for corn.

True, but it will still hit hard for alot of farmers. Too late to pivot this year obviously but will be interesting to see that if the switch to cane sugar results in a significant drop in acres sown with corn.

Could also result in the burning/destruction of more Brazilian rain forest in order to produce more cane sugar required to replace the HF corn syrup.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

AI response on growing cane sugar in the US:

Sugarcane can be grown in the United States, primarily in warmer, subtropical climates. Florida, Louisiana, and Texas are the main states where sugarcane is cultivated, with Florida being the largest producer. Hawaii also has some sugarcane production.
Explanation:
Tropical and Subtropical Climate:
Sugarcane requires a warm climate with plenty of sunshine and either consistent rainfall or reliable irrigation for optimal growth.
US Production Areas:
Florida: The majority of sugarcane in the US is grown in Florida, particularly in the Everglades Agricultural Area (EAA).
Louisiana: Sugarcane is also a significant crop in Louisiana.
Texas: Sugarcane is grown in southeastern Texas.
Hawaii: Hawaii also has a sugarcane industry.
Importance of Processing:
Sugarcane must be processed relatively quickly after harvest due to its tendency to deteriorate, meaning mills are located near the sugarcane farm

 

[Good2Golf]

I suspect corn farmers can pivot to another crop, it will do in some farms who have completely optimized for corn. A quick look on the web show that corn farmers need to do crop rotations or risk depleting their fields, so there is the possibility of reducing the amount of corn and growing a crop that is also profitable.

Not sure how much the cutting head on a combine costs, but farmers would need to buy a cutter head for other crops if they only had a corn head…

 

[PuckChaser]

Where they will continue to grow corn but with the added benefit of the abysmal environmental records of corporations, a lack of connection to the community which further entrenches the owner-renter castes that are developing and a loss of tax revenue when the corporate entity uses loopholes to hoover all of the profits off to Panama or Ireland.

The Karl Marx/Chicken Little fusion act is a little transparent. Those family farms are totally happy selling their wares to corporate overlords to turn into poisonous food additives, so the crocodile tears don't work.

Those corporate loopholes are legal, ask our Prime Minister when the company he was vice chairman of a corporation headquartered in the Bahamas at a building with 15,000 other companies.

 

[ArmyRick]

I suspect corn farmers can pivot to another crop, it will do in some farms who have completely optimized for corn. A quick look on the web show that corn farmers need to do crop rotations or risk depleting their fields, so there is the possibility of reducing the amount of corn and growing a crop that is also profitable.

Most farmers or cash croppers rarely grow "just corn or just soy or just wheat", many I know grow corn, wheat, soy, peas, oats, sunflower, canola, etc in a rotation.

 

[ArmyRick]

Not sure how much the cutting head on a combine costs, but farmers would need to buy a cutter head for other crops if they only had a corn head…

Most do, or share the gear with neighbours.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Most farmers or cash croppers rarely grow "just corn or just soy or just wheat", many I know grow corn, wheat, soy, peas, oats, sunflower, canola, etc in a rotation.

yes don't doubt, I don't know much in this field, other than it's highly unlikely Canada is going to be able to grow sugarcane any time soon.

 

[ArmyRick]

On crops, a few SAD notes. Keep in mind I am beef and lamb (and occasionally pork) farmer, I also do hay. I am nt a cash croper but many of my neighbours and friends are.
-Canola. Doesn't matter who buys it, in my opinion, this is one of the filthiest and nastiest crops grown for human consumption. It shouldn't be. But its got a big industrial push behind it. My advice? Never consume this shit.
-Corn. A big chunk grown for animal feed (and the by product), most of it for industrial ingredient (HF corn syrup), some for ethanol, a tiny bit for booze (the only way people should consume it), and a very tiny bit for people feed. Honestly? Its most useful as a livestock feed, something people should keep out of their dietary consumption
-Soy. I get it, there is money involved. Why do we insist on growing a tropical legume in a non-tropical environment? Personal thoughts, peas (many varieties) are better and tolerate cold much better
-Wheat. Obviously grown for everything bread, pasta, donuts, etc and as livestock feed. I think people consume too much wheat myself but it easier to grow.
-Barley. We need her for the beer damn it. And livestock. and some people consumption.
-Oats. Excellent livestock feed, ok for people food. Easy as hell to grow.
-Rye. OK livestock food, has limited people food use. Grows in the most coldest weather you can mange (gets real tall too).
-Sunflower. Becoming more popular. I love it for livestock feed/supplement, its much easier to extract oil from sunflower than the crazy shit they do with canola. Its also very good soil remediator. I plant about 80-200 sunflowers every year. Yes you can combine sunflower.

So Rick's sustainable takeaway (and opinion) is Canadian farmers should ditch Canola, soy and corn. Canola is shit for everything and corn and soy are better grown in much warmer climates. I personally feel we should gow the cereals and peas but the market has lower demand for that stuff.

 

[brihard]

Meh. Other food or cash crops will rotate in, and corn for eating may come down in price a bit. I don’t know if ethanol production make take some of it up?

There will be a surplus of HFCS, or of corn, or of arable land. The market will absorb that and shake it out.

 

[ArmyRick]

Meh. Other food or cash crops will rotate in, and corn for eating may come down in price a bit. I don’t know if ethanol production make take some of it up?

There will be a surplus of HFCS, or of corn, or of arable land. The market will absorb that and shake it out.

The corn ethanol conundrum is tricky. I believe there is still some "green money" subsidy behind it. The physics behind it makes ZERO sense. By the time you burned off the diesel to plant, spray, spray, harvest and dry, and then further energy to render it into ethanol, you actually end up with an energy loss (Go figure), and its hard on ICE vehicles.

An old farmer years ago put it this way "We grow corn for ethanol to make people feel better and no other logical reason..." and this guy sold most of his corn to an ethanol plant.

 

[Czech_pivo]

On crops, a few SAD notes. Keep in mind I am beef and lamb (and occasionally pork) farmer, I also do hay. I am nt a cash croper but many of my neighbours and friends are.
-Canola. Doesn't matter who buys it, in my opinion, this is one of the filthiest and nastiest crops grown for human consumption. It shouldn't be. But its got a big industrial push behind it. My advice? Never consume this shit.
-Corn. A big chunk grown for animal feed (and the by product), most of it for industrial ingredient (HF corn syrup), some for ethanol, a tiny bit for booze (the only way people should consume it), and a very tiny bit for people feed. Honestly? Its most useful as a livestock feed, something people should keep out of their dietary consumption
-Soy. I get it, there is money involved. Why do we insist on growing a tropical legume in a non-tropical environment? Personal thoughts, peas (many varieties) are better and tolerate cold much better
-Wheat. Obviously grown for everything bread, pasta, donuts, etc and as livestock feed. I think people consume too much wheat myself but it easier to grow.
-Barley. We need her for the beer damn it. And livestock. and some people consumption.
-Oats. Excellent livestock feed, ok for people food. Easy as hell to grow.
-Rye. OK livestock food, has limited people food use. Grows in the most coldest weather you can mange (gets real tall too).
-Sunflower. Becoming more popular. I love it for livestock feed/supplement, its much easier to extract oil from sunflower than the crazy shit they do with canola. Its also very good soil remediator. I plant about 80-200 sunflowers every year. Yes you can combine sunflower.

So Rick's sustainable takeaway (and opinion) is Canadian farmers should ditch Canola, soy and corn. Canola is shit for everything and corn and soy are better grown in much warmer climates. I personally feel we should gow the cereals and peas but the market has lower demand for that stuff.

1) Corn for southern Ontario, alot of which is 'sweet corn', think Tecumseh, Ontario 'Cornfest'
2) What about sugar beats - think area around Chatham, Ontario
3) What about linseed?
4) What about flax?

 

[lenaitch]

On crops, a few SAD notes. Keep in mind I am beef and lamb (and occasionally pork) farmer, I also do hay. I am nt a cash croper but many of my neighbours and friends are.
-Canola. Doesn't matter who buys it, in my opinion, this is one of the filthiest and nastiest crops grown for human consumption. It shouldn't be. But its got a big industrial push behind it. My advice? Never consume this shit.
-Corn. A big chunk grown for animal feed (and the by product), most of it for industrial ingredient (HF corn syrup), some for ethanol, a tiny bit for booze (the only way people should consume it), and a very tiny bit for people feed. Honestly? Its most useful as a livestock feed, something people should keep out of their dietary consumption
-Soy. I get it, there is money involved. Why do we insist on growing a tropical legume in a non-tropical environment? Personal thoughts, peas (many varieties) are better and tolerate cold much better
-Wheat. Obviously grown for everything bread, pasta, donuts, etc and as livestock feed. I think people consume too much wheat myself but it easier to grow.
-Barley. We need her for the beer damn it. And livestock. and some people consumption.
-Oats. Excellent livestock feed, ok for people food. Easy as hell to grow.
-Rye. OK livestock food, has limited people food use. Grows in the most coldest weather you can mange (gets real tall too).
-Sunflower. Becoming more popular. I love it for livestock feed/supplement, its much easier to extract oil from sunflower than the crazy shit they do with canola. Its also very good soil remediator. I plant about 80-200 sunflowers every year. Yes you can combine sunflower.

So Rick's sustainable takeaway (and opinion) is Canadian farmers should ditch Canola, soy and corn. Canola is shit for everything and corn and soy are better grown in much warmer climates. I personally feel we should gow the cereals and peas but the market has lower demand for that stuff.

So, what oilseeds do you like?

 

[ArmyRick]

So, what oilseeds do you like?

ZERO for human consumption. I use lard, beef tallow, butter, butter, butter and if you can get your mitts on it, real olive oil (not mixed, which never says it on the label).

 

[ArmyRick]

1) Corn for southern Ontario, alot of which is 'sweet corn', think Tecumseh, Ontario 'Cornfest'
2) What about sugar beats - think area around Chatham, Ontario
3) What about linseed?
4) What about flax?

I live in Southern Ontario, although Oxford county has a slightly better environment than say Grey county. There is still a chunk of corn that gets grown every year (even in Ontario) that gets lost, never gets harvested. Iowa and Nebraska are 2 prime examples of where they can grow corn MUCH better (their growing season is 6-8 weeks longer, which is much more ideal).

Now cereals, you can plant a winter wheat in October, harvest it next late May/June and then plant say an oat crop and harvest it by end of August/early September

Sugar beets, yes a crop, but its a root crop and not as popular. Linseed and flax are same thing. Limited market demand for it, so not much grown.

 

[RangerRay]

The "400%" tariff line he keeps repeating is right up there with they subsidize us with $XXBillion in trade or all their fentanyl comes from us.

True that there are high tariffs (actually it is 270% not 400 but I could be wrong) on some US dairy product imports but that is only after a tariff-free quantity. Only approximately 1% of US imports are subject to high tariffs.

Overall, they export about about twice as much to as we do to them. Apparently Wisconsin has more dairy cows that all of Canada.

I would also be concerned about the antibiotic and hormone level in US dairy.

The US likes to perpetuate the myth that their agriculture sector is pure free market and everybody else is socialist.

But if you remove the US bogeyman, our supply management system is still a major impediment to getting trade deals with the rest of the world, hence hindering our efforts to diversify our trade portfolio. Not to mention screwing over Canadian consumers for the benefit of a few.

 

[Maxman1]

-Rye. OK livestock food, has limited people food use. Grows in the most coldest weather you can mange (gets real tall too).

Also necessary for whisky, which makes it the most important one.

 

[Good2Golf]

-Canola. Doesn't matter who buys it, in my opinion, this is one of the filthiest and nastiest crops grown for human consumption. It shouldn't be. But its got a big industrial push behind it. My advice? Never consume this shit.

Not as filthy as when we called it rapeseed…

 

[The Bread Guy]

... There will be a surplus of HFCS, or of corn, or of arable land. The market will absorb that and shake it out.

I'm not of a conspiratorial mindset normally, but I suspect there will be a lot of resistance from Big High Fructose Corn Syrup to changes in how POTUS47's American sweetens things.

Speaking only as a hearty eater, not a food scientist, I suspect a lot of food processes are set up to be WAY easier to use HFCS than other sweeteners, meaning Big HFCS and Big HFCS Users (betcha a whooooooooooooooole lotta pop produced in the U.S. uses HFCS) may twist arms to avoid more expensive sweeteners* AND having to retool.

Robert Kennedy's pronouncements on the un-goodness of HFCS has already drawn fire from the usual quarters earlier this year ...

RFK Jr. wants to wean America off corn syrup, but production is already on the decline - Investigate Midwest

Corn, the nation’s largest crop, is produced for a variety of uses, including food for humans and animals, alcohol for fuel and exports to foreign countries. Almost all of those uses have increased over the last several years. However, corn produced for high-fructose corn syrup has decreased by...

investigatemidwest.org

RFK Jr’s vow to ban syrup sows concern among corn farmers in Trump heartland

Loss of high fructose corn syrup would be a major blow for producers if Trump’s health pick is true to his word

www.theguardian.com

We'll see who wins ...

* - Guess why cane sugar's more expensive? Yeah, tariffs - and I'm SURE he'd be happy to allow higher import quotas to get more cane sugar in, right?