Canada, U.S. ARCADE WARS

[helpup]

If you think any foreign power has the interests of Canadians at heart I have some oceanfront in Arizona for you. It scares me to hear such naivety from a Military member charged with the defence of Canada.

Arcade now where in my post did I mention anything about "foreign power has the interest of Canadians".  I was just making some observations that people are taking this agreement and blowing it out of proportion.  We already have numerous deals with the US and other countries for security, trade, information sharing, power sharing, and so on.  If what I am saying comes across as a generalization it is my attempt at letting people understand it in the simplest terms.  

As for other countries eyeing what we have in Canada and wanting it.  Sure I have no doubt there is.  Are we loosing things to these "foreign powers", I have no doubt that we are loosing more then we are gaining in some aspects.  It is called a Global Market for a reason.  

As for being naive, that is a laugh that you are making that assumption about me or anyone in general.  But lets look at that.  How does someone who is in the military being naive scare you?  We are at the lowest levels responsible to be trained to carry out our job, apply our skills in direction of our Superiors who take their marching orders from Ottawa.  At the higher levels ( as in regional and National ) they can and do plan for differant scenarios.  In order to anticipate the direction that the CF may have to take.  Still all that depends on marching orders from Civilian leaders.  So if your scared hearing about "naivety" from rank and file serving/ retired CF members then you really do need to invest in some counseling, although I am not sure there is a Phobia that would label it accurately.  

And not supprising you missed the point of my post/ rant.  Please show me where in history the US or any other Democracy has invaded another Democracy to gain that nations wealth, mineral, resources.  And do you not think there would be major repercussions to any country that tried.  The closest example I can come up with off the top of my head is the Turbot war.  and in the end that was settled through established diplomacy/trade talks/world courts.  I will grant that at times we can and do "give" our resources in a way it may bite us in the butt at some point.  Yet that can and will be a changing situation that will depend on the market and political reality that can and will evolve with time.  

In the end we are the US's largest trading partner.  We are apart of a North American trade partnership for the most part those things are beneficial to all involved.  Being a "hyperpower" the US tends to be viewed at this mad man playing a real life game of Risk with the resources instead of points for each country.  I just don't buy into that line of thought.  Is some of their dealings self serving.  Sure they are that is the nature of the beast of being Human.  But please show me the last time the US went to war with another Democracy to further their goals.  ( and no I don't think CIA, big business involvement counts ) I want to hear about the boots on the ground.  And could you also please tie that in to the Agreement that started this whole topic.  really this naive service member wants to know.

 

[1feral1]

Now Wes........We can anticipate the next question to be:  "What is EI?" after which we can come to the conclusion that this is a youngster who has joined an adult conversation which is way over his/her head, or the habitual Troll who likes to come to various sites and put on airs, or even a foreigner who has little to no knowledge of North American politics.  As they question the title name, we can see that quite a few things are going right over their head. 

I am still curious about this Mexican Military/Protection Consortium that will protect North Am and the Trading Conduit that is supposed to be built between Winnipeg and Mexico. 

UI

 

[TCBF]

It says "a Mid continental trade corridor" ...you can't get more specific...

- Maybe they mean Highway 61 that runs from Thunder Bay Ontaio to New Orleans Louisianna.  Not a bad movie, either!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_61_(film)

- Or, there is always Bob Dylan's take on it:

"Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?" God says, "Out on Highway 61."

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/highway61.html

- Whatever.  I know Thunder Bay could sure use the jobs.

 

[Old Sweat]

A segment of the lunatic fringe have convinced themselves there is a giant plot by Canada and Mexico to take over the US and a major part is a super corridor running north-south. One of the Republican presidential hopefuls, Ron Paul, more or less subscribes to this theory, or at least he claims to.

I couldn't make something like this up.

 

[Meridian]

UI

Shhhh, now you're just confusing people.

 

[helpup]

A segment of the lunatic fringe have convinced themselves there is a giant plot by Canada and Mexico to take over the US and a major part is a super corridor running north-south. One of the Republican presidential hopefuls, Ron Paul, more or less subscribes to this theory, or at least he claims to.

I couldn't make something like this up.

You could make it up but it is sadly all too real.  I am not normally a fan of using the lunatic fringe as a description but there are groups that can easily fit that label.  I would like to think though that most are just misinformed or ignorant. 

 

[ArcadeFire]

As for being naive, that is a laugh that you are making that assumption about me or anyone in general.  But lets look at that.  How does someone who is in the military being naive scare you?  We are at the lowest levels responsible to be trained to carry out our job, apply our skills in direction of our Superiors who take their marching orders from Ottawa.  At the higher levels ( as in regional and National ) they can and do plan for differant scenarios.  In order to anticipate the direction that the CF may have to take.  Still all that depends on marching orders from Civilian leaders.  So if your scared hearing about "naivety" from rank and file serving/ retired CF members then you really do need to invest in some counseling, although I am not sure there is a Phobia that would label it accurately. 

You're right I should be more scared that our politicians think the US can do no wrong.

That's why little treaties like the one just signed without much in the way of publicity draw my attention. The reason there's no publicity is because they know how Canadians would react. Good deeds are done in the light of day and it makes me wonder why all of these deals are done in secrecy. Lets face it if it's not on the 6pm news no one will know it happened. Take the SPP for example, it was signed with litle to no publicity between Martin, Fox and Bush and the working groups/think tanks coming up with these ideas are not even our Government officials- they're the heads of various high powered multi national firms. The events and documents are hidden in plain sight- but the fact that they're not publicized means that no one ever finds out about them. Why are these guys deciding our future? The multi nationals? I'm just asking questions. Yes everything looks fine and dandy from the outside...another agreement made between good "friends and neighbors" but when put in context, and when we look at the other things going on something starts to smell. Many people these days can see it happening right in front of them and not notice. Our leaders, if you haven't figured this one out, respond to large corporate lobbyists...that's who they really represent in both Canada and the US. We as the people are just in the way of someone else's big plan for the world- hence they give us Hockey night in Canada and America's next top model. If you've noticed TV is declining in intellectual content by the second....Nobody wants a well informed mass of people able to think about things critically.
The world would be a better place, for the corporations, if there was a North American Union. Think about it from their point of view. Cheaper labor, less trading laws getting in the way and basically more control over the masses. They call it globalization but that's just the euphamism for domination over people by a Corporate elite. Don't think it's happening? Look at wallmart taking over all the mom and pop operations in almost every category. What is Wallmart? Chinese labor. While the Government's (ie. Corporate puppets) would have you believe that "Globalization" is good for you, it doesn't take the most intelligent one of us to realize that in fact it is not good for us and that in fact we will lose jobs, have lower minimum wages and more environmental problems. Some people take this corporate control to extremes that I will not get into for fear of losing what attention you've given my arguments, but suffice it to say things could be much worse than just less jobs. So if agreements like this are not good for us, who are they good for?

Someone earlier mentioned Ron Paul as somewhat of a kook....? Nothing could be further from the truth. I dare you to look him up on youtube and listen to him speak. He's the only one running for President in the US worthy of even a second glance. But he's not just worthy he's ideal. He's got military experience, as a former Vietnam flight surgeon, he's a Dr. having delivered 4000 babies and also he's never voted , even once, for any kind of pork spending or to raise taxes. he's the only one that voted against the Iraq war from the outset and unlike Obama, he even prophetically predicted the mess that such a war would bring about both in the Middle East and domestically.....no one listened of course. They probably still call him a kook although he's never wrong and never quits fighting for the truth. The media there has completely ignored him, even during the debates...it's sad really. All you have to do is watch the censorship of Paul to see who owns them. Due to the MSM in the US the people there are missing their best and maybe last, chance for a real leader. Americans aren't dumb as many in Canada like to portray them, they're just misinformed by a hostile media controlled by big corporations.

Anyways...rambling.... check out ron paul speaking before the iraq war and tell me he's a kook....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLV7zDhKzDY

also...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG2PUZoukfA

 

[1feral1]

Put a cork in it Arcade, you're wasting enough bandwidth as it is.

 

[ArcadeFire]

Put a cork in it Arcade, you're wasting enough bandwidth as it is.

...and yet your tagline is so openminded

"This War, right or wrong, well thats your opinion, but always support the troops!"

I support the troops.

 

[1feral1]

I might be openminded, did my time in Shyteland, but I have no time for onesided biased trolls.

I have earned my right to an opinion on a war which many decide from their armcharis, and listen to the one sided media reports.

Ya, and you can discuss that with your like minded friends over a warm stale beer and a bong or two.

 

[helpup]

Wow Arcade what can I say you just bowled me over with your diatribe.  It was everything that I expected and so much more. 

Thanks for supporting the troops Arcade.  Just know they are doing their job for you  

 

[helpup]

And Arcade I did ask a couple of specific questions that you havnt answered. 

 

[aesop081]

And Arcade I did ask a couple of specific questions that you havnt answered. 

Thats the sure giveaway that you have a troll on your hands. Look around the site for all the s**tdisturbers we have had and see what they all have in common.

 

[helpup]

Thanks Aviator,  caught that about him with out looking for his previous posts outside of this forum.  Too bad though sometimes I get suprised by fact based arguements that some can come up with.  Ahh well enough fishing with him

 

[TCBF]

I do, however, respect Arcade's admiration for Ron Paul.  Usually, on this site, we get bombarded by trolls who are slightly to the left of Karl Marx.  A change is better than a rest, I say.

 

[Red 6]

I just discovered this thread and want to weigh in as a American. There's a lot of ground that's been covered here, so I'll focus on a few core areas.

Ron Paul: This guy is a wack job. His opinions about foreign affairs, economics, the role of the Federal government (pretty much everything else, too) couldn't be more off base. None of the serious candidates even come close to his radical views. Not only doesn't he have a real constituency here in the US, but he hasn't gotten any air time either. Only a very small segment of the population seems to embrace him, and I honestly think they don't know his true views. I see a handful of his supporters standing now and then on the main street bridge here in Eugene holding election signs. (you know: "Honk if you support Ron Paul") Those folks always look, to me anyway, as slightly lonely and deluded.

The supposed "North American confederation": Who dreams this stuff up? We have three different sovereign countries here. There are plenty of trade agreements all over the world where nations work together for the betterment of all. There's no mystery or secret agenda to it. In regards to the illegal alien problems in the United States, it's not about illegal aliens doing work that Americans won't do. The question should really be: Why won't business pay a wage that Americans will work for?

Cheers, Mark

 

[helpup]

Red 6 I would apologise about this guys belief if I thought they held any water.  Nah strike that I wouldn't apologise at all as a nut is a nut no mater what its shell is made from.  Besides no one country holds the Monopoly on "fringe belief" folks, best thing to do is grab some popcorn and be entertained by them until they become annoying then just ignore. 

Thanks for an American input we might see you up here when you come to help, ( using that devious super Continental highway but want to stay to grab our stuff ) 

 

[ArcadeFire]

I just discovered this thread and want to weigh in as a American. There's a lot of ground that's been covered here, so I'll focus on a few core areas.

Ron Paul: This guy is a wack job. His opinions about foreign affairs, economics, the role of the Federal government (pretty much everything else, too) couldn't be more off base. None of the serious candidates even come close to his radical views. Not only doesn't he have a real constituency here in the US, but he hasn't gotten any air time either. Only a very small segment of the population seems to embrace him, and I honestly think they don't know his true views. I see a handful of his supporters standing now and then on the main street bridge here in Eugene holding election signs. (you know: "Honk if you support Ron Paul") Those folks always look, to me anyway, as slightly lonely and deluded.

The supposed "North American confederation": Who dreams this stuff up? We have three different sovereign countries here. There are plenty of trade agreements all over the world where nations work together for the betterment of all. There's no mystery or secret agenda to it. In regards to the illegal alien problems in the United States, it's not about illegal aliens doing work that Americans won't do. The question should really be: Why won't business pay a wage that Americans will work for?

Cheers, Mark

Where to begin...

Ron Paul a whack job? You're argument for him being a whack job includes all the reasons he is not and some of the reasons why American's are going to get "fooled again" by the electoral process and socialist controlling media there. Firstly, you say he is radical. Radical? Everyone in the US, and every political candidate says they represent "change". Well what is change if it's not radical? In any case the funny thing is that he's not radical at all. He wants to return to a sound monetary system- that's all. Every position that he maintains comes directly from this document known as the "Constitution of the United States of America" ...something I believe you're sworn to upohold- if you're in the Military. He is even the self-styled "defender of the constitution" and thus, he recieves more donations from the Military there than any other candidate as a proportion of his total. He's raised millions of dollars, not from corporations, as the others do, but from everyday people; enough money for him to remain in the race long after those other numbwits have left. He knows he's not going to win but he fights anyway. You can't respect that? The "serious" candidates as you label them are those presented to you by your media as "serious". I find it funny that you say as a negative implication that Paul hasn't received any air time. I lol'd at that. If you were a thinking person you would come to your own conclusions and not be led by what CNN and Fox tells you are your choices. You're right, only a small segment of the population supports him; although that small segment is highly vocal, growing and not planning on stopping with the elections in November. It is always a highly vocal few that brings about real change- this is due to the mass of sheep that find it easier to live a contented life going with the flow. You will always find that the "herd" are the ones taking us all of the cliff...

Your final question. "Why don't businesses pay a wage that Americans will work for?" Because they own Obama, and Hillary, and McCain and Bush and the Media and they have no need to pay more, since those handpicked politicians do all their dirty work for them. They introduce hairbrained ideas like "amnesty" for illegal immigrants (when did the illegal part lose its authority?) and free trade with China, ensuring that American workers are always undercut. A real government representative of the people would do everything in its power to prevent the integration of illegal immigrants into society in order to maintain the quality of life for Americans (and Canadians by default). Unfortunately there is no such thing as real reprasentative government anywhere in the world today. Money corrupts those that want it and for those with money, power is just as strong an addiction. Ron Paul, somehow, has remained uncorruptible for 30 years as a Texas congressman. I can't think of another person like him, let alone someone running for President. For many there he is the real Commander in Chief regardless of who is elected in November. I have a different idea of a whack job than you do. For me a whack job is someone that mindlessly obeys orders and never questions their most firmly held positions even in the light of evidence...

here's some evidence for you. Look at this money webb. It shows from where all the candidates for President in the US get their donations and how much they receive. Basically the chart shows who "owns" each contender. Note that McCain, Obama and Hillary are all sponsored by THE SAME BANKS. It's like aliens versus predator- whoever wins, we lose. So who has the real power in the US? Hint: not the individual. Also note that Ron Paul recieves most donations from active Army, Navy and Airforce. Think about it.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/moneyweb.asp

 

[ArcadeFire]

"His opinions about foreign affairs, economics, the role of the Federal government (pretty much everything else, too) couldn't be more off base. None of the serious candidates even come close to his radical views"

Oh I forgot to ask about that one too. Please elaborate on how Ron Paul is off base....

Which one of these arguments do you think is off base? If you're a conservative this will be tough for you.

- lower taxes
- no more wellfare
- a strong national defense
- right to life (you can't protect liberty without protecting life, and he's a Dr. he knows)
- sound money
- abolish the illegal federal reserve and income tax
- return to the gold standard for US currency
- no pre-emptive wars
- President MUST seek congressional approval for wars
- defend Habeus Corpus which is under attack

*end motorcycle helment laws...a personal favorite.

Paul would rather have too much freedom than deal with the consequences of too little...a someone once said.

Makes sense to me.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

How creative and original! You must have been a bright one in school.

Well, seeing as you want to take this to a personal level. I could be a burnt out light bulb and still be brighter than you.

Your exhibiting all the classic troll traits, as has been mentioned previously. I'm envisioning that you may not be here much longer, unless you do a radical turnaround. Perhaps you can start by answering the questions posed to you. Most feel they've already wasted enough time humouring you.