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Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

brihard

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Their plan for refugees and immigration don't sound too crazy at all.



But you know what is crazy? Bringing in a record number of immigrants during a worldwide pandemic. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mendicino-immigration-pandemic-refugees-1.5782642

Hmm…

PPC Platform said:
The primary aim of Canada’s immigration policy should be to economically benefit Canadians and Canada as a whole. It should not be used to forcibly change the cultural character and social fabric of our country. And it should not put excessive financial burdens on the shoulders of Canadians in the pursuit of humanitarian goals.

Despite Canada already accepting more immigrants than almost any other country, both the Liberals and Conservatives support an unsustainable increase in the annual immigration intake, and are using mass immigration as a political tool to buy votes among immigrant communities.

If you can’t see the dog-whistles in this for what they are, we can’t help you.
 

Remius

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Their plan for refugees and immigration don't sound too crazy at all.



But you know what is crazy? Bringing in a record number of immigrants during a worldwide pandemic. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mendicino-immigration-pandemic-refugees-1.5782642
This country wouldn’t be able to function with that sort of cut to immigration. People don’t have to like it but it’s the truth. They also blame the housing crisis on immigrants, they talk about muslims in their freedom of speech section, and they have a whole section on Canadian identity that I can only describe as lamenting immigrants. Like I said, it’s an obsession.
 

Good2Golf

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brihard

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Jarnhamar

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What electoral districts are most immigrants to Canada initially taking up residence in these days?
 

Good2Golf

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What about the Financial Post, are they dog whistling too?

Diane Francis: The Liberals' unsustainable immigration plan
Hardly anyone would disagree that Canada needs immigrants, but such a flood is not justifiable

I think you're hearing things.
Francis is off the plot on this one, especially blaming higher than AUS/NZ level unemployment in the immigrants. Who do you think will be happy to work and who would rather sit at home collecting CERB? Hint: Immigrants aren’t sitting at home collecting CERB rather than accepting decent jobs.
 

Remius

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What electoral districts are most immigrants to Canada initially taking up residence in these days?
The same as any Immigrant in any country. They go mostly to where they have opportunity and amenities.
 

daftandbarmy

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Can't fault that logic.
What electoral districts have the most opportunity and amenities these days?

Well, for example, let's just say that in my recent trip to southern Alberta once I left Calgary, a big urban centre, it was snow white....

.... and it was summer.
 

Colin Parkinson

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The Liberals plan to use immigration to stack the electoral deck, has nothing to do with what's good for the country. The very corrupt government in Malaysia was doing the same, to shape the demographics in places that was beneficial to their staying in power.
 

Remius

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The Liberals plan to use immigration to stack the electoral deck, has nothing to do with what's good for the country. The very corrupt government in Malaysia was doing the same, to shape the demographics in places that was beneficial to their staying in power.
The CPC immigration plan doesn’t seem that different. Just saying.

do you have a source for that statement? About the Liberal plan to stack the electoral deck?
 

Colin Parkinson

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The CPC immigration plan doesn’t seem that different. Just saying.

do you have a source for that statement? About the Liberal plan to stack the electoral deck?
Sadly Gerald Butts does not share his inner thoughts and strategies with me. However one can easily surmise how they intend to shape the electoral battlefield. The key to winning wars is to win before the battle is fought.
 

Jarnhamar

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Sadly Gerald Butts does not share his inner thoughts and strategies with me. However one can easily surmise how they intend to shape the electoral battlefield. The key to winning wars is to win before the battle is fought.
He'd cite Cabinet Confidence anyways.

I suspect the reason we attempted to take on so many Syrian refugees while seemingly ignoring Afghans (who were actually in danger) is because the Afghans were a little too close with the conservatives and the LPC couldn't count on their votes.
 

Remius

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He'd cite Cabinet Confidence anyways.

I suspect the reason we attempted to take on so many Syrian refugees while seemingly ignoring Afghans (who were actually in danger) is because the Afghans were a little too close with the conservatives and the LPC couldn't count on their votes.
Honestly, immigration policy hasn’t really changed that much in the last decade if not more.
 

Navy_Pete

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How does such a person live with himself, I wonder?
Quite easily; it's known as the paradox of tolerance and much smarter people then myself have explained it pretty well; but basically means you can be intolerant of things like racism (ie. intolerance) and that a certain amount of intolerance to people being jerks to others is required to live in a tolerant society. Perfect example is Canada's hate speech limits on free speech, where people aren't allowed to say anything they want without consequences. Pure tolerance sounds good on paper, but falls apart in practice because people can be jerks and will take advantage of that.

Paradox of tolerance - Wikipedia

Libertarianism is a pretty broad category, and and can include anarchism (ie total personal freedom), forms of socialism with no personal property on one end of the spectrum, and free market libertarianism on the other end. Same starting premise, but completely different logical endpoints.

It can get taken to a lot of harmful extremes, so not a big fan as a political concept. For example, extreme market deregulation in the US banking sector has led to multiple serious crashes with massive economic impacts.

So, social liberal (with a small l); basically think that government intervention is needed all over the place because people can't keep their stick on the ice, but don't really care what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. Fiscally conservative (again, small c), because I think government shouldn't mortgage our grandkids future by constant overspending, but also recognize that bankers can't keep their stick on the ice either, so all kinds of financial regulations are needed to ensure stability and that the system is sustainable, while paying people a living wage, and not wrecking the planet via predatory resource exploitation (both natural resources and people). Very little of that is 'libertarian' in practice, and as a political theory it's so wide that I think calling yourself a 'libertarian' is a bit meaningless, and don't think the juice is worth the squeeze to run through the endless subdivisions.

Voting wise that doesn't align to anyone, and while there is a bunch of good stuff in the PPC platform, the party members and candidates continue to behave like rabid assclowns, and really can't get behind their COVID stance, so that's a hard no for me.
 

RangerRay

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Over the last 5 years I have learned that I am mostly a liberal (opposite of illiberal) conservative (opposite of “progressive”, a term I don’t like). I do not see any truly liberal party, but the Tories are closest in that, for the most part for now, they are closer to the liberal values of the Enlightenment than the others. Having said that, I do see a troubling illiberal streak in that party that is influenced by the illiberalism of the modern US Republican Party.

The Liberals are probably the closest thing to an illiberal cult of personality that the Republicans have become, but one day I fear the Tories will say “Hold my beer”.
 

medic5

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I've been a Conservative member for a few years, and I voted for O'Toole in the leadership race. (Weird that they allow people to vote at 14) Truthfully I feel a bit betrayed, he went against his word on guns and has broken a few other promises he made to his supporters. The Conservative party has also moved further from fiscal conservatism, and I don't see how they will keep all their promises and balance the budget without raising taxes.

I don't think O'Toole is a good leader, I value honesty and actually staying accountable to the promises you make to your supporters, instead of changing your mind on a whim to try to get more votes.

For voters in my situation, what do you do? I would never support the NDP since I prefer to not spend every cent then raise taxes to the moon, I strongly dislike Justin Trudeau, the Greens are irrelevant, and the PPC sounds pretty crazy to me and some of their candidates are literally crazy.

Good thing I can't vote, no way I could make a decision.
 

MilEME09

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I've been a Conservative member for a few years, and I voted for O'Toole in the leadership race. (Weird that they allow people to vote at 14) Truthfully I feel a bit betrayed, he went against his word on guns and has broken a few other promises he made to his supporters. The Conservative party has also moved further from fiscal conservatism, and I don't see how they will keep all their promises and balance the budget without raising taxes.

I don't think O'Toole is a good leader, I value honesty and actually staying accountable to the promises you make to your supporters, instead of changing your mind on a whim to try to get more votes.

For voters in my situation, what do you do? I would never support the NDP since I prefer to not spend every cent then raise taxes to the moon, I strongly dislike Justin Trudeau, the Greens are irrelevant, and the PPC sounds pretty crazy to me and some of their candidates are literally crazy.

Good thing I can't vote, no way I could make a decision.
If you go back a few pages you can read our discussion about the gun statement and how he didn't actually change his mind at all. His platform has been costed to return to balance after 10 years, if he survives that long.
 
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