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Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

Altair

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We see the same thing except it's Toronto. The country is literally subsidizing people who choose to live in Toronto despite how unsustainably unaffordable is. You like city living but don't want to pay Toronto or Vancouver prices? Move to Calgary or Edmonton. Don't like that idea? Why should everyone else have to pay for personal (stupid) choices?
Except its not just Toronto and Vancouver, most urban centers are getting unaffordable. So what, should everyone in a urban center just move to the countryside? Will the jobs follows? Or is everyone just going to hit the nearby towns within driving distance and then those prices shoot up?

So its much less of a stupid choice situation and much more a lack of supply/affordability issue.

Not to mention that jobs that exist in Toronto may not exist in Calgary or Edmonton. Or people have spent countless years working their way up in their job may not wanting to start all over.
 

Altair

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And for someone who admitted to voting PPC, a party incapable of winning even one seat, pretty damn rich.
I didn't vote PPC because I thought they could win. Anything but.

I voted PPC because I live in a safe Liberal riding and wanted to play my small part in pumping up a party that can one day grow into what the reform party was, and what the NDP is to the LPC, a vote splitting party.
 

Brad Sallows

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So what, should everyone in a urban center just move to the countryside?

Those who can't afford the city, yes. Or settle for more modest accommodations (eg. small condo or apartment). Real estate is finite, especially in metro areas that border on water and mountains, and the kinds of dwellings people would like to live in are made scarcer by zoning. Population increase, however, is not limited.

Maybe if people could go back 35 years and force governments to institute zero-increase controls. Too late now. My experience is limited to metro Vancouver. Sorry to say, it's really different today than it was in the mid-80s.
 

ballz

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Except its not just Toronto and Vancouver, most urban centers are getting unaffordable. So what, should everyone in a urban center just move to the countryside? Will the jobs follows? Or is everyone just going to hit the nearby towns within driving distance and then those prices shoot up?

Yes to everything, it's called supply & demand. However, the early bird gets the worm in all scenarios.
So its much less of a stupid choice situation and much more a lack of supply/affordability issue.

So, supply & demand? Calling it an "affordability" issue is just silly. That's the symptom, not the disease.

Not to mention that jobs that exist in Toronto may not exist in Calgary or Edmonton.

Really? Which ones? Do you think the only jobs out here are on the rigs and in the trades?

Or people have spent countless years working their way up in their job may not wanting to start all over.

Considering it's apparently young adults who are feeling the squeeze because they can't get "established," this seems like a very weak argument.

I know so many people who moved to Alberta from all over the country, including my own family, and it seems to have worked out well. This is also true for Saskatchewan.
 

ballz

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Sorry but I'm just not convinced that "I want to own a 3 bedroom lane house, 15 min from Bay Street, with my Bachelors of Women's Studies from U of T" is really a compelling argument for the rest of the country to bend over backwards to accommodate.
 

Maxman1

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The CPC took a big step towards the center, but they are not quite there yet.

So you threw your vote away on a protest party founded by a petulant manchild because the CPC are "too left," but you want them to go further left.

Make up your mind. You can't have your cake and eat it.

Although it seems to me someone who didn't vote for a party is in no position to be beaking off about what it "needs" to do.

They need to stop being scary when it comes to abortion, and if that means whipping votes it means whipping votes.

They already do that. Harper vowed his government would never pass any abortion legislation, and any private member's bill on abortion would die before first reading. And he did just that: a private member's bill was introduced to restrict abortion past a certain point in the pregnancy, and Harper saw to it that bill never made it to first reading.

Erin O'Toole announced his pro-choice stance, and how he too would never let any abortion bill pass, weeks ago when this issue came up out of nowhere.

The only people still bringing up abortion are fear mongers.

They need to stop trying to undo LPC gun regulations. Just maintain the status quo.

So, exactly what O'Toole announced two weeks ago?

Do try to keep up.

They need to fully embrace fighting climate change.

They do. Perhaps try reading the climate change action plan.

In comparison, O'Toole and the CPC not once tweeted about climate. They definitely tweeted a lot about other topics.

Tweets are meaningless and a grossly unprofessional activity for someone looking to lead a country.
 

Altair

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Yes to everything, it's called supply & demand. However, the early bird gets the worm in all scenarios.
Of course it is. And this isn't a case of early birds getting the worm, its a case of there not being enough worms regardless of when the bird shows up.
So, supply & demand? Calling it an "affordability" issue is just silly. That's the symptom, not the disease.
Yes, supply and demand. The lack of supply leading to pent up demand leading to problems with affordability.
Really? Which ones? Do you think the only jobs out here are on the rigs and in the trades?
Having lived in Alberta, no, there are more jobs than just oil and gas. But the financial sector of Toronto has no equal in Canada. The Government of Canada in Ottawa has no equal in Canada. Those who speak french only will not find work easily in Alberta. Those who work in aerospace will not find work easily in Alberta. Those who work in auto plants or steel cannot just up and move to Alberta. Those who have family obligations cannot just up and move either. So your just up and move to Alberta is not a solution.
Considering it's apparently young adults who are feeling the squeeze because they can't get "established," this seems like a very weak argument.
Millenials are those born between 1980–1995. So the oldest ones are 41, the youngest 26. It is not inconceivable that many of the older cohort of millennials have been working at the same place for over a decade now, saving up to buy a house only to find out that all their hard work has been undone in the last year or two because the amound they need for a down payment just jumped by 30-40 percent.
I know so many people who moved to Alberta from all over the country, including my own family, and it seems to have worked out well. This is also true for Saskatchewan.
Good for them.
Sorry but I'm just not convinced that "I want to own a 3 bedroom lane house, 15 min from Bay Street, with my Bachelors of Women's Studies from U of T" is really a compelling argument for the rest of the country to bend over backwards to accommodate.
Your anti Toronto bias is very clear, but looking at the urban sprawl happening in places like Toronto shows just how much people are willing to move away from bay street to find a place to live and deal with the commute. But even those areas outside of Toronto proper are unaffordable, and this phenomenon is not limited to Toronto. Its happening in Montreal, in Ottawa, even out in the Maritimes.

And thankfully, if enough people make noise about the issue, politicians take notice. So it matters little if you are not convinced.
 

Altair

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So you threw your vote away on a protest party founded by a petulant manchild because the CPC are "too left," but you want them to go further left.
I can do whatever I like with my vote, and anyone who says otherwise can go pound sand.
Make up your mind. You can't have your cake and eat it.
Yes I can. I voted PPC and got a LPC MP. See? Got my cake and ate it too.
Although it seems to me someone who didn't vote for a party is in no position to be beaking off about what it "needs" to do.
Yes, sorry Erin O'Toole and the CPC brain trust. Disregard my opinion here.
They already do that. Harper vowed his government would never pass any abortion legislation, and any private member's bill on abortion would die before first reading. And he did just that: a private member's bill was introduced to restrict abortion past a certain point in the pregnancy, and Harper saw to it that bill never made it to first reading.
Yet Erin O'Toole allowed a free vote on sex selective abortion and 2/3rd of his caucus voted for restrictions.

And one can defend the position all one likes, but at the end of the day all the public is going to see is CPC voting for more restrictions on abortion.
Erin O'Toole announced his pro-choice stance, and how he too would never let any abortion bill pass, weeks ago when this issue came up out of nowhere.

The only people still bringing up abortion are fear mongers.
Yet it works. The CPC brings it upon itself.
So, exactly what O'Toole announced two weeks ago?

Do try to keep up.
After their platform said they would do the opposite 4 weeks ago.

Its hard to keep up when his position keeps changing.
They do. Perhaps try reading the climate change action plan.
Okay plan. But to be honest, it sounded like a plan just so they could say they had a plan. You didn't really hear O'Toole campaign on how the climate crisis was a very serious issue. You heard a lot more about the Canadas recovery plan and 1 million jobs. You didn't hear about him cutting emissions by 30 percent as much as you heard him talk about restarting the economy. Its one thing to have a plan, its another to run on that plan. Example, the LPC on defence. They have a plan in their platform, but they sure as hell didn't run on it.
Tweets are meaningless and a grossly unprofessional activity for someone looking to lead a country.
Yet the CPC and O'Toole tweeted a hell of a lot.
 

ballz

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Having lived in Alberta, no, there are more jobs than just oil and gas. But the financial sector of Toronto has no equal in Canada. The Government of Canada in Ottawa has no equal in Canada. Those who speak french only will not find work easily in Alberta. Those who work in aerospace will not find work easily in Alberta. Those who work in auto plants or steel cannot just up and move to Alberta. Those who have family obligations cannot just up and move either. So your just up and move to Alberta is not a solution.

Man, I am sure glad I wasn't raised to resign myself to defeat just because things might require some work or sacrifice.

How many people in Toronto only speak French? You're finding small microcosms that don't represent the majority of the population and making it sound like the average person can't just do something worthwhile for themselves. It's garbage.

And thankfully, if enough people make noise about the issue, politicians take notice. So it matters little if you are not convinced.

Yes, the loudest collective whining gets the attention, it's true. That's really something to be a guiding principle in life, great strategy for long-term happiness.

Do you actually think the government can do actually do anything about the housing problem? So far all they've done is make it worse.

Your anti Toronto bias is very clear

It's not anti-Toronto, it's an anti-"normal people who just want the government to solve their first-world problems" bias. I grew up in rural Newfoundland, I can see it from a mile away.

There are a lot of people that are born with a shitty lot in life, and I feel very empathetic for them and would like to divert resources to helping them. In many cases, given the help, they become some of the most impressive and inspiring citizens in the nation. The average person living in Toronto, however, was not born in such dire circumstances and does not deserve the same empathy or resources.

1. Hard times make strong people;
2. Strong people make good times;
3. Good times make weak people; and
4. Weak people make hard times.

The last 20-30 years were step 3, we're full into step 4 now.
 

Altair

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Man, I am sure glad I wasn't raised to resign myself to defeat just because things might require some work or sacrifice.
Your overly simplistic solution of everyone move to Calgary or Edmonton isn't feasible for everyone, full stop.

It's not even feasible for everyone in the forces, so just stop.
How many people in Toronto only speak French?
Why is everything about toronto? The same thing is happening in Quebec. Where people speak French. Like I said, anti Toronto bias is clear.
You're finding small microcosms that don't represent the majority of the population and making it sound like the average person can't just do something worthwhile for themselves. It's garbage.
So steel workers in Hamilton, Government of Canada employees in Ottawa, aerospace employees in Montreal, francophones in Quebec city, small business owner in Sudbury, all just can up and move to Alberta and find the same job they left, no problem?
Yes, the loudest collective whining gets the attention, it's true. That's really something to be a guiding principle in life, great strategy for long-term happiness.
Yup, don't care.
Do you actually think the government can do actually do anything about the housing problem? So far all they've done is make it worse.
If they increase supply while making it easier save for a house for first time homebuyers, yes, i think they can do something about it.

the reason they haven't I assume is because those with houses are probably loving their home value skyrocket. It wasn't until the millennial generation was facing being locked out of the housing market forever being seen as a bad thing that governments took notice.
It's not anti-Toronto,
lies
it's an anti-"normal people who just want the government to solve their first-world problems" bias. I grew up in rural Newfoundland, I can see it from a mile away.
Government policy caused the issue, low interest rates, high levels of immigration, municipalities stunting zoning areas to appease homeowners, so ya, why wouldn't people want government to fix the problem they made?
There are a lot of people that are born with a shitty lot in life, and I feel very empathetic for them and would like to divert resources to helping them. In many cases, given the help, they become some of the most impressive and inspiring citizens in the nation. The average person living in Toronto,
Toronto. Again. Yet you say you don't have a anti toronto bias. This is happening in dozens of cities across the country, but hurr durr, toranna
however, was not born in such dire circumstances and does not deserve the same empathy or resources.
Work hard. Save money. Be responsible with money. Build credit. Buy house.

That is the general plan. Except many cannot do the last one. Why? Lack of supply. And what supply there is is being snatched up at ever increasing prices by foreign homebuyers, house flippers, those who remortgage their house and buy another as an income property, rich people who let them sit empty as an investment.

So it doesn't matter if someone worked hard. Saved their money. Were responsible with their money. Built their credit. They cannot keep up with housing prices rising 20 percent, 30 percent, 40 percent a year. And no, they cannot just up and move. Especially not to a boom and bust province such as Alberta where when things go bust everyone moves back to their home province anyways.

Salaries don't increase 20 percent a year. People cannot keep up with ever rising home prices. So hell ya a entire generation is going to cry foul and demand that the government do something about it. And if the a political party doesn't address it, they will vote for one that will.

1. Hard times make strong people;
2. Strong people make good times;
3. Good times make weak people; and
4. Weak people make hard times.

The last 20-30 years were step 3, we're full into step 4 now.
Weak people must have invented covid 19 then.

I get it, you don't see this as an issue. That's fine, you don't have to. But I wonder how many people who own houses would be crying foul if house prices were dropping 20, 30, 40 percent a year.
 

ballz

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Your overly simplistic solution of everyone move to Calgary or Edmonton isn't feasible for everyone, full stop.

Your assertion that NO ONE can do it is also bonkers, so just stop. Oh wait, you didn't say "no one," right? That's right, you didn't, so stop trying to mischaracterize what I'm saying and I'll return the favour.

There is a very large population of people aged 18-35 that can, they just don't, because crying for government intervention is easier.

Why is everything about toronto?

It's analogous for large urban centers, I'm not going to type out the three biggest examples when I can just say Toronto and any one who wants to actually see the point knows it's not necessarily Toronto.

So steel workers in Hamilton, Government of Canada employees in Ottawa, aerospace employees in Montreal, francophones in Quebec city, small business owner in Sudbury, all just can up and move to Alberta and find the same job they left, no problem?

Okay, you've used two really odd examples so far... financial sector workers in Toronto, as if the rest of the country doesn't employ the same people, and now small businesses in Sudbury......... as if entrepreneurs can't / don't move to greener pastures. Government of Canada employees can transfer pretty easy, and generally get paid better than their private sector counterparts.

Aerospace employees? Steel workers? Which ones, specifically? You don't think they don't have transferable skills that will allow them to excel in other industries? The vast majority do, I suspect.

Government policy caused the issue, low interest rates, high levels of immigration, municipalities stunting zoning areas to appease homeowners, so ya, why wouldn't people want government to fix the problem they made?

With more government intervention though? More subsidies, more programs to make it easier to buy a home, all things that have contributed to the current fiasco?

You think subsidized daycare won't contribute to higher home prices? Again, it's going to be early bird gets the worm and those who miss the opportunity for the brief period it lasts will be left just as bad or worst off, with one more option off the table.

Weak people must have invented covid 19 then.

Housing affordability wasn't an issue before COVID-19?

I get it, you don't see this as an issue. That's fine, you don't have to. But I wonder how many people who own houses would be crying foul if house prices were dropping 20, 30, 40 percent a year.

I do see it as an issue actually. I just don't think the government can solve it. I suspect it's one of those "hard times creates strong people" things. Over time, after government completely fails to provide the fix, and inflationary policies continues creating more and more problems, and we're all suffering from some really hard times....... people are slowly going to learn to fix their problems themselves again, like they used to do, by doing uncomfortable things like moving across the country, or even to a new country, to pursue opportunity.
 

Altair

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Your assertion that NO ONE can do it is also bonkers, so just stop. Oh wait, you didn't say "no one," right? That's right, you didn't, so stop trying to mischaracterize what I'm saying and I'll return the favour.

There is a very large population of people aged 18-35 that can, they just don't, because crying for government intervention is easier.
Please elaborate what these people who move to Alberta do when that province goes bust again when oil prices drop?

Move back?

Your plan is amazing.
It's analogous for large urban centers, I'm not going to type out the three biggest examples when I can just say Toronto and any one who wants to actually see the point knows it's not necessarily Toronto.
Urban Canada.

So hard.
Okay, you've used two really odd examples so far... financial sector workers in Toronto, as if the rest of the country doesn't employ the same people, and now small businesses in Sudbury......... as if entrepreneurs can't / don't move to greener pastures. Government of Canada employees can transfer pretty easy, and generally get paid better than their private sector counterparts.
Hahahahaha

Aerospace employees? Steel workers? Which ones, specifically? You don't think they don't have transferable skills that will allow them to excel in other industries? The vast majority do, I suspect.
Hahahahahaha
With more government intervention though? More subsidies, more programs to make it easier to buy a home, all things that have contributed to the current fiasco?
Supply is the other side of this coin. I've addressed it.
You think subsidized daycare won't contribute to higher home prices?
depends on supply.
Again, it's going to be early bird gets the worm and those who miss the opportunity for the brief period it lasts will be left just as bad or worst off, with one more option off the table.
Or government can make structural changes and keep supply rolling prioritizing first time homebuyers over those who already have houses or those who don't live in Canada.

Housing affordability wasn't an issue before COVID-19?
It was an issue that very quickly turned into a crisis.
I do see it as an issue actually. I just don't think the government can solve it. I suspect it's one of those "hard times creates strong people" things. Over time, after government completely fails to provide the fix, and inflationary policies continues creating more and more problems, and we're all suffering from some really hard times....... people are slowly going to learn to fix their problems themselves again, like they used to do, by doing uncomfortable things like moving across the country, or even to a new country, to pursue opportunity.
Oh, the cynic. You see the issue, but your response to it is too bad, so sad. Move away if you don't like it.

Again, if housing prices were dropping 20 percent a year and homeowners were losing their shirts I doubt you have the same opinion. No, that would be a crisis! The economy! Oh noes....

The inverse is meh, too bad.

I could say what I think of you and your opinion but I would likely be staring a ban in the face, so I'll end our little tete a tete by saying this is what I think of your opinion on this subject.


Fail Just For Laughs GIF
 

ballz

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Again, if housing prices were dropping 20 percent a year and homeowners were losing their shirts I doubt you have the same opinion. No, that would be a crisis! The economy! Oh noes....

The inverse is meh, too bad.

You'd lose that bet, obviously you haven't seen my posts over the years. Unfortunately no matter how many times it happens, the entitled crowd keeps doing it to themselves. If people such as yourself who think it's the government's role to put a band-aid on every bump and bruise life throws at them would have taken a more reasoned approach, we wouldn't have the skyrocketing house prices we have now.

As for the rest of your childish post, go take a nap.
 

Eaglelord17

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This election has shown how spoilt and vapid most Canadians are. Most the issues and problems that were debated are things that should be a personal responsibility, not the governments (many of them being issues that belong at the Provincial level as well). This election is leaving me questioning if universal suffrage is really working for us. When too many people are taking from the system and have no skin in it, we are left with the types of problems we are currently facing.

Political parties only reflect what the population desires in a democracy, and when the truly important things such as debt management, human rights, and such aren't the priority we are in for a world of trouble. Blatant lies, creation/tolerance of crime to suit a political agenda, ignoring basic rights (how many politicians campaigned against Quebecs anti-'religious symbol' law), scapegoating innocent citizens to suit agendas (firearms being the easiest example), etc.. Irresponsible governments lead to great suffering long term. When the government only thinks in 4 years cycles and re-election but doesn't care about anything beyond that we are witnessing the failings of democracy in action.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the seats were rebalanced a bit to reflect the population more (such as how Alberta is under-represented, when Quebec is over-represented), however that is unlikely to happen well it benefits the government in power.
 
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