Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

[Remius]

Do you think Ms. Ambrose ( or Leswyn Lewis, for that matter ) would have stood a better chance than Mr. O'Toole against PMJT in the recent election?

( I understand the question is hypothetical, as is speculation of a future "Freeland-Ambrose election campaign". )

Ambrose yes. Lewis no. If Ambrose was leader he (Trudeau) never would have triggered this election in the first place.

 

[brihard]

Do you think Ms. Ambrose ( or Leswyn Lewis, for that matter ) would have stood a better chance than Mr. O'Toole against PMJT in the recent election?

( I understand the question is hypothetical, as is speculation of a future "Freeland-Ambrose election campaign". )

Ambrose, yes. Lewis, not a chance. She would have driven away a lot of the centrist votes that O’Toole successfully pivoted the party towards

 

[daftandbarmy]

Trudeau: "Oh fuddle duddle.... let them eat bannock!"

'Complete letdown': Cindy Blackstock on Trudeau's Tofino trip​

Cindy Blackstock, the executive director of the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society, says Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s trip to Tofino, B.C. on the first National Day for Truth and Reconciliation was a “complete letdown.”

In an interview on CTV’s Question Period airing Sunday, Blackstock said the prime minister's actions did not demonstrate that Indigenous Peoples and specifically survivors of the residential school system “are worth his time.”

“The prime minister decides that he can have a vacation day – he could have had the vacation day tomorrow. I support vacation, I know that they work hard, but not on the very first national day when we’re supposed to be spending the [time] doing the duty of reconciliation,” she said.

Despite a public itinerary that noted that Trudeau was in “private meetings” in Ottawa on Thursday, his office later confirmed he had travelled to the West Coast to spend time with his family.

“Yes the prime minister is spending time in Tofino with family for a few days. And, following his participation in last night’s ceremony marking the first National Day for Truth & Reconciliation, he is speaking today with residential school survivors from across the country,” the statement read.

Trudeau received two invitations to spend the day in Kamloops, B.C. with residential school survivors.

Tk'emlups te Secwepemc Chief Rosanne Casimir told an audience on Thursday she had held out hope that Trudeau would make it for the event.

“But I do know that moving forward, it’s really important that he truly uphold those 10 principles, the guiding principles of working with us as First Nations,” she said.

'Complete letdown': Cindy Blackstock on Trudeau's Tofino trip

Cindy Blackstock, the executive director of the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society, says Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's trip to Tofino, B.C. on the first National Day for Truth and Reconciliation was a 'complete letdown.'

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Altair]

Blackface

Aga Khan

Costumes in India

SNC lavalin

Ditching electoral reform

Failing to end boil water on first nations

WE scandal


Despite all of these the LPC are still firmly where they were in 2019, and still just over a dozen seats away from a majority government.

I thought the lesson of people just don't hate Trudeau and what he does enough to throw away what the LPC provides would have been learned by now.

Guess not. Please continue with this tofino controversy.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Blackface- racism

Aga Khan- ethics

Costumes in India- cultural appropriation

SNC lavalin- respecting the law

Ditching electoral reform- integrity

Failing to end boil water on first nations- health and safety of First Nations

WE scandal- nepotism

I thought the lesson of people just don't hate Trudeau and what he does enough to throw away what the LPC provides would have been learned by now.

I can see why it's unimportant to the Liberal base.

 

[Altair]

I can see why it's unimportant to the Liberal base.

Yes, I would have thought people would learn that issues and policy matter more than individual leaders.

Case in point, Jagmeet Singh is the most popular federal leader, he got 26 seats. O'Toole is a decent fellow, didn't gain any seats.

At the end of the day, issues matter, and policy matters. Expecting people to vote out Trudeau under the assumption he is unpopular is a losing proposition. Providing a clear alternative that Canadians feel comfortable choosing as an alternative should be the priority and thus far every party has failed to do that in one way or another.

NDP still not taken seriously.

CPC still cannot break into urban Canada

Greens were too busy fighting their leader and their leader fighting off attacks from within the green party

PPC cannot concentrate their vote to win a riding.

BQ needed a debate moderator to bring them level with 2019 and still the LPC got more seats in QC than they did.

So as long as those aforementioned points remain relevant, it matters little what trudeau does or doesn't do, and it remains amusing that people imagine what he did or didn't do on september 30th matters at all.

 

[Remius]

Yes, I would have thought people would learn that issues and policy matter more than individual leaders.

Case in point, Jagmeet Singh is the most popular federal leader, he got 26 seats. O'Toole is a decent fellow, didn't gain any seats.

At the end of the day, issues matter, and policy matters. Expecting people to vote out Trudeau under the assumption he is unpopular is a losing proposition. Providing a clear alternative that Canadians feel comfortable choosing as an alternative should be the priority and thus far every party has failed to do that in one way or another.

NDP still not taken seriously.

CPC still cannot break into urban Canada

Greens were too busy fighting their leader and their leader fighting off attacks from within the green party

PPC cannot concentrate their vote to win a riding.

BQ needed a debate moderator to bring them level with 2019 and still the LPC got more seats in QC than they did.

So as long as those aforementioned points remain relevant, it matters little what trudeau does or doesn't do, and it remains amusing that people imagine what he did or didn't do on september 30th matters at all.

Altair, policy matters little to the base as well. If you think they care about policy then I think I have a bridge to sell you. Trudeau is an image. That’s all. People bought into that image. I am willing to bet that most of his base are politically illiterate in the grand scheme of things.

So no, they likely don’t care what happened in Tofino. But they likely could care less about any real policy or what the policy actually entails either.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yes, I would have thought people would learn that issues and policy matter more than individual leaders.

I agree. Toronto and Montreal doesn't seem too concerned with issues and policies surrounding racism, ethics, respect for the law, first nations health and well-being. Good stuff.

 

[Altair]

Altair, policy matters little to the base as well. If you think they care about policy then I think I have a bridge to sell you. Trudeau is an image. That’s all. People bought into that image. I am willing to bet that most of his base are politically illiterate in the grand scheme of things.

I agree that there is definitely a segment of the population that will always vote liberal same as there is a segment of the population that will never vote liberal.

But I do think issues and policy matter. There is a reason O'Toole shifted to the center. There is a reason he bled votes in the west and picked up votes in the east (although in not enough numbers to sway the result). People do get swayed by issues. The NDP proposed a very progressive platform and appealed to Quebec nationalists in 2011, and it nearly killed the LPC. The LPC proposed a very progressive platform in 2015 and won back those votes from the NDP in 2015, meanwhile the CPC lost the immigrant/minority vote with their barbaric cultural hotline issues.

Even this election, the CPC flip flop on guns, not opposing vaccine passports and proposing their own carbon tax were issues that shifted the campaign and led to the PPC rising in the polls.

So this idea that its about the leaders is a theory that doesn't hold water in my opinion.

So no, they likely don’t care what happened in Tofino. But they likely could care less about any real policy or what the policy actually entails either.

If this were the case, the political landscape would never change. Yet the LPC lost their majority in 2019. The bloc has come back and forth from the dead. The NDP have gone from official opposition to 4th party. The CPC went from a party of the west and suburbs to party of the west. Am I to believe that this is mostly due to the leaders? I don't agree with that at all.

 

[mariomike]

Maybe people seeking moral perfection in this world should turn to religion.

I suspect most voters know what they want, or don't want, and support those who support them.

 

[Altair]

I agree. Toronto and Montreal doesn't seem too concerned with issues and policies surrounding racism, ethics, respect for the law, first nations health and well-being. Good stuff.

The funny thing here is people in Toronto and Montreal care about those things, and they look at the party as a whole and what they are doing about it, not just the leader.

In terms of racism, which party leader took a knee at the BLM protests? Which party has 30 percent of its caucus be BIPOC? Hint, not the CPC. CPC is 95 percent of European descent. If you consider for a moment that by 2036, Canada will have 30 percent of its population born outside of Canada, with another 20 percent having at least one immigrant parent, that presents a problem for the CPC. Is the CPC racist? No. But will LPC do a better job of reflecting the racial diversity of Canadians, despite what Trudeau did before he was PM? Yes.

In terms of ethics, I have not seen this top the list of Canadians concerns in a long time. But just to be sure, I checked.

Canada: voting priorities in 2021 election | Statista

The Canadian federal election was held on September 20, 2021, two years ahead of schedule, after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called for the dissolution of Parliament on August 15.

www.statista.com

So at the end of the day, people care more about the following, and wont throw out the party working on these priorities regardless of what any individual leader is up to.

As for first nations health and well being, I heard a lot about how Trudeau failed, I didn't hear much about how anyone would do anything better. Its easy to criticize the LPC on their failings, harder to present an alternative. Doesn't help when O'Toole says things like raise the flags right away in the debates either, because it does allow the LPC to paint them as the party that wont do the bare minimum in terms of reconciliation.

In terms of woman voters, having a party come out and say that they will put forward policies like childcare in order to allow women(and its largely women who stay home to raise children) to re-enter the workforce and grant them some independence (hard to leave certain abusive relationships if a woman needs to both raise a young child and earn enough to live on their own) definitely matters more to them and their day to day lives than the JWR affair and subsequent book, and some allegation that didn't go anywhere from decades ago. Also doesn't help that a majority of the CPC caucus voted in favour of putting more restrictions on abortion in recent memory, especially with the stuff going on in the USA right now.

The problem for the CPC is that they won in 2011. There is a generation of progressive voters who remember what voting NDP is like. It lead to the LPC collapsing, enough centralists being scared of the NDP to go vote CPC, and 4 years of a majority government for Stephen Harper. I doubt you see a majority of progressive voters go vote for the NDP anytime soon, knowing the end result. So the progressive vote will naturally back the LPC so long as the NDP are not a real alternative.

These are the issues that the opposition parties face going forward, not Trudeau per se. So its entertaining to me to watch people continue to make the mistake of jumping on Trudeaus miss steps when their problems go much deeper than Trudeau.

 

[Altair]

Maybe people seeking moral perfection in this world turn to religion.

I suspect most voters know what they want, or don't want, and support those who support them.

I spent 10 minutes writing out a big post when you summed it up in two sentences.

Bravo.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

All of you give way too much credit to the average Canadian voter.
Most vote because of the names of the parties name and what they think that entails.

Liberal....live and let live folk.
Conservative....old straight stuffy folk.

You switch the names of the parties, and nothing else, and we'd get almost the same result.

 

[Remius]

I agree that there is definitely a segment of the population that will always vote liberal same as there is a segment of the population that will never vote liberal.

But I do think issues and policy matter. There is a reason O'Toole shifted to the center. There is a reason he bled votes in the west and picked up votes in the east (although in not enough numbers to sway the result). People do get swayed by issues. The NDP proposed a very progressive platform and appealed to Quebec nationalists in 2011, and it nearly killed the LPC. The LPC proposed a very progressive platform in 2015 and won back those votes from the NDP in 2015, meanwhile the CPC lost the immigrant/minority vote with their barbaric cultural hotline issues.

Even this election, the CPC flip flop on guns, not opposing vaccine passports and proposing their own carbon tax were issues that shifted the campaign and led to the PPC rising in the polls.

So this idea that its about the leaders is a theory that doesn't hold water in my opinion.



If this were the case, the political landscape would never change. Yet the LPC lost their majority in 2019. The bloc has come back and forth from the dead. The NDP have gone from official opposition to 4th party. The CPC went from a party of the west and suburbs to party of the west. Am I to believe that this is mostly due to the leaders? I don't agree with that at all.

Jack Layton almost killed the LPC in QC. not the NDP or any real policy. Specifically his performance on Tout Le monde En Parle. Quebecers vote with the hearts not their heads. Happened this time as well after a reporter asked a question they didn’t like.

2019 was all about leaders. Specifically Scheer who was very much not liked.

2015 was the end of a tired gvt. Trudeau appeared and portrayed a contrast that Canadians wanted. Policy wasn’t the issue. If they ran with someone like ignatief or Dion they would have lost. Don’t kid yourself.

The leader theory holds plenty of water. I accept you don’t want to drink it. But it’s a fact.

 

[Altair]

Jack Layton almost killed the LPC in QC. not the NDP or any real policy. Specifically his performance on Tout Le monde En Parle. Quebecers vote with the hearts not their heads. Happened this time as well after a reporter asked a question they didn’t like.

The NDP ran jack layton a bunch of times and the only time the NDP made any traction as after they agreed with 50 percent plus 1 after the Sherbrooke conference. That was policy.

2019 was all about leaders. Specifically Scheer who was very much not liked.

Scheer was not liked because of his utter failure to make a coherent response to the abortion issue.

2015 was the end of a tired gvt. Trudeau appeared and portrayed a contrast that Canadians wanted. Policy wasn’t the issue. If they ran with someone like ignatief or Dion they would have lost. Don’t kid yourself.

Canadians could just have easily elected Mulcair, in fact Mulcair was in the lead for a good portion of the campaign. After the LPC said screw it to balanced budgets and ran to the left of the NDP who were trying to appear more responsible under mulcair, and thus more electable, the NDP started to falter. Was Trudeau the right guy to deliver said message? Sure. But lets not pretend that he became leader and overnight the LPC was polling in majority territory. They were still the 3rd place party going into that election, and once there was a clear divergence on issues between them and the NDP, they started their rise.

The leader theory holds plenty of water. I accept you don’t want to drink it. But it’s a fact.

No, its a opinion.

 

[Altair]

All of you give way too much credit to the average Canadian voter.
Most vote because of the names of the parties name and what they think that entails.

So the rise of the PPC was what then?

The collapse of the GRN was what then?

CPC doing better in Ontario and Quebec was what then?

CPC doing worse in the west was what then?

I think enough Canadians are paying attention to the issues, more so than the leaders.

 

[QV]

All of you give way too much credit to the average Canadian voter.
Most vote because of the names of the parties name and what they think that entails.

Liberal....live and let live folk.
Conservative....old straight stuffy folk.

You switch the names of the parties, and nothing else, and we'd get almost the same result.

This is exactly it right here. That’s why the party name matters so much.

 

[Jarnhamar]

In terms of racism, which party leader took a knee at the BLM protests? Which party has 30 percent of its caucus be BIPOC?

Is that the bar for what racism is and isn't?

 

[Altair]

Is that the bar for what racism is and isn't?

It less about a bar than it is about relevancy. Did Trudeau do blackface? Yes. Was it recent? No. Has he shown himself to be racist in recent memory? No. So its not relevant.

What is relevant is that the LPC has branded itself as the party of immigration, the party of the charter of rights, the party of multiculturalism, it makes it hard to tar them as intolerant racists regardless of what Trudeau did decades ago.

 

[Kilted]

A 3-gun competitive shooter
A Covid19 virus
Electoral reform
Meng Wanzhou
First Nations Warrior

Canadians want to know, what will the honourable Justin Trudeau dressup as this year for Halloween?


Why wouldn't he want to run and win in the next election?

Because his party won't let him.