CANSOFCOM Search and Rescue?

[Journeyman]

Two additional factors on the speed of any change here - - whether it's a CSAR role or FWSAR airframe.

First, bear in mind the "case study" of the Challenger acquisition. If someone high enough up says "make it happen," it will. The higher-sourced the voice, the more bureaucracy seems to fall aside.

Secondly, "money talks." Over the past 10-15 years, several capabilities are recurringly threatened with the axe. Once the tribal elders get word, "if you are no longer providing that capability, that much of your budget gets clawed back," life-extension programs miraculously appear.

While I think the Buffalo would be an awesome airframe for in-theatre transport - - it was made for austere conditions (personally....that big tail sucks in mountain crosswinds when hungover, but that's not particularly relevant )......the platform is just one more factor that would have to be gripped.

First, it requires a CDS / CAS / DCDS huddle.....beating the budgeteers in VCDS.....and direction to "make it so."

 

[beenthere]

The Buff would really do it's thing in that environment.

I flew on Buffs with 424Sqn, did 6 months in Egypt and topped it off with a 3 Buff. excursion to Rhodesia/Zimbabwe in 1980 for the election that ended civilized life in that country.

We took 3 aircraft over there and never had a snag that caused a late departure for the whole trip over. Never failed to do an in country mission during 3 weeks in country and finished it all off with a flawless return trip back to Trenton arriving on schedule.

The key to success was using select crew, lots of onboard spares, lots of spares in country and a realistic attitude. The 3 aircraft worked like they were charmed.

Along with the satisfaction of using the Buff to do exactly what the aircraft was meant for the whole mission was fabilous. Just to make the trip user friendly we planned an itenerary that made the deployment and return trips read like a holiday excursion with excellent stops and ample time on the ground. That also allowed ample time in case of things that required a bit of fixing. As it turned out virtually nothing needed fixing at any stopover.

The in country flying was super. Rhodesia was super. The people that assisted us RAF--- Rhodesian Air Force that is were super. The Rhosesian people were super.  The beer was super.
Unfortunately after we left the whole country fell apart.

 

[beenthere]

I just had to add this. There was a saying in Rhodesia that "Rhodesia Is Super". Those--and there are many who left the country in the years following the takeover by MR. Mugabe maintain connections via a number of internet sites.  I found this.http://www.finalsounds.co.za/images/fs/rwsf.jpg

 

[beenthere]

After returning to Trenton the 3 Buffs returned to their former status. Low serviceability rates,snags that took days to rectify and usually one or two of them parked by the hangar with one engine removed for weeks at a time.
They are excellent aircraft but their availability for use has often been hindered by a lack of spare parts and personnel to keep them serviceable. This certainly was the case in Trenton although I would think that they may have gotten better maintenance in the squadrons that had maintenance personnel integrated into the squadrons rather than having a base maintenance unit assigned to look after them.
Can anyone comment on their serviceability rate and what sort of problems are most prevalent in 442 Sqn?

 

[beenthere]

In regard to updated avionics. Back in the 90's we had a UN force in Honduras and I was on several trips that went to Tegucigalpa  delivering helicopters and other equipment.
There were a couple of Caribous and C-123s on the ramp there that were being operated by an American company which was funded by" Uncle Sam". They were used for dropping supplies in remote areas. They had been refurbished and equipped with lots of very new avionics equipment that looked like the best that could be bought. The only thing that was original was the appearance from the outside. All it takes is money.

 

[medic269]

A bit of a hijack, feel free to move this if necessary.  I was reading through this thread and there were a few mentions of CSOR Medics.  I'm jumping a bit ahead of myself in that I have quite a while to wait before I consider it as a career move, but with most of the articles I've been reading in the paper and online, the mentions of CSOR's make up is primarily RCR out of Petawawa.  I'm just curious if they're recruiting primarily out of Combat Arms units or if they actually are taking medics and training them for more advanced combat and combat medicine?  Is there anyone first hand who can comment on this, or know of any reading that I haven't come across yet?  I know there's mention in this thread of CSOR Medics, I guess Im curious about what approach they're taking to fill that spot, and how competitive it is.  Thanks in advance people.

 

[George Wallace]

You would have to know what makes up an Infantry Unit.  It is not all Infantrymen, but also include people like Sigs, Medics, Storesmen, Mechanics, Technicians, etc.  Do this help?

 

[medic269]

Yeah I knew that before.  The different trades are attached to the unit and they function as one entity (correct me if I'm wrong, my Basic starts Seot 4th so I have yet to learn a lot)  Is that the model they took? 

 

[Weinie]

  Currently, the regiment is recruiting trained medics, and employing them within the unit, as opposed to bringing in say, a combat arms type and training them as a medic. The Cat 1 positions (Special Operations Operator) are open to anyone from any branch or trade, Reg or Reserve, who makes it through the screening and physical and psych tests, and meets pre reqs. For Cat 2 Support personnel, such as medics, mechanics, engineers etc, those specific trained tradespeople are being recruited for the positions.

 

[medic269]

Great info, thanks alot guys.

 

[kj_gully]

While we're on the CANSOF-PJ topic - let me throw my fixed-wing ideas into the melee...

Let's revert the CC-115 back to its original role - tactical transporter.  Paint it flat black (to match Duey's counter-rotating beast) and install new NVG compliant avionics, RADAR, FLIR pod, weapon's blisters in place of SAR windows and strip out the SAR racks so that we start carrying vehicles again.   PJ's can be quickly para-inserted with the helo conducting the hairy recovery.  The inside of the Buff is identical in dimensions to that of the Hook - palletized loads can be easily swapped and not require a re-pack in the event of a mission change.

The Buffalo is built with plenty of redundancies in its systems - the inner fuel tanks are self sealing (in case of bullets or shrapnel) and its ability to land on any stretch of real-estate is world reknown.

There's my pitch...   8)

found this clip with the Buffs Older brother kickin *** in the recruit forum, of all places
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK__TUU2-0c

found out on RAAF website that their DHC4 Caribou is eqpt for night vision use.....

 

[Pte. Jay]

:2c:  I think that 427 SOAS should handle CSAR, as they have easiest access to Griffons, and it just seems right that the "air force" of CANSOFCOM handle the job of tactical aero-evac. I suppose CSOR could do this job, and do it pretty damn well, but I feel that the process of getting qualified CSOR operators to 427 helicopters would be too long... Again, just my  :2c:

 

[MikeL]

:2c:  I think that 427 SOAS should handle CSAR, as they have easiest access to Griffons, and it just seems right that the "air force" of CANSOFCOM handle the job of tactical aero-evac. I suppose CSOR could do this job, and do it pretty damn well, but I feel that the process of getting qualified CSOR operators to 427 helicopters would be too long... Again, just my  :2c:

Bit of an old discussion here as the last post was in 2006.

What do you know about CSAR?  ie requirements,  training, etc ?

Why do you believe 427 SOAS as is can handle all realms of CSAR?

I feel that the process of getting qualified CSOR operators to 427 helicopters would be too long

Not sure what you mean?  What qualifications do you believe CSOR members would require?

If you meant distance too each other, etc then I concur with Journeyman's reply here(as well as all his other points in the post)

Do you know where the CSOR lines are, or where the 427 hanger-line is? Do you have even the vaguest idea of stand-by timings for duty crews?

Plus in a operational theatre,  it's not like the birds are going to be in one location and CSOR members tasked with CSAR are going to be a 2 hour drive away.

 

[Journeyman]

You resurrected a 6 1/2 year-dormant thread for that?  :not-again:

I think that 427 SOAS should handle CSAR, as they have easiest access to Griffons...

400, 403, 408, 430, and 438 Tactical Helicopter Squadrons don't have "easy access" to Griffons? 417, 439, and 444 Combat Support Squadrons?

....and it just seems right that the "air force" of CANSOFCOM handle the job of tactical aero-evac.

Aeromedical evacuation is not remotely the same as SAR or CSAR.

I suppose CSOR could do this job, and do it pretty damn well....

While I'm sure that they're grateful for your confidence, what do you know about either CSOR competencies or SAR requirements?

...but I feel that the process of getting qualified CSOR operators to 427 helicopters would be too long...

Do you know where the CSOR lines are, or where the 427 hanger-line is? Do you have even the vaguest idea of stand-by timings for duty crews?


Back to the "stay in your lane" pile already.    :

 

[Fishbone Jones]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107733/post-1178130.html#msg1178130

I would like to apologize for the ignorance I have been displaying for these past few days. My name has changed, and so has my behavior. Believe me when I tell you, it was not on purpose. I promise you that from this point on, I'll talk only about topics I have a thorough knowledge of and I will not state facts about things without first being sure of said facts. I really hope that you guys can forgive me for this, and we can move past this, as this forum is a small community and I would like to have the respect of each and every one of you. 

Regards,
      Jay B.

JayB,

Did you forget this already?

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Pte. Jay]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/107733/post-1178130.html#msg1178130
JayB,

Did you forget this already?

Milnet.ca Staff

No sir, I have not. I'm just contemplating one of the possibilities. I know only what's publicly available to know about CANSOF's.

 

[Pte. Jay]

Why do you believe 427 SOAS as is can handle all realms of CSAR?

Definitely not as-is, there'd have to be specialized people to do the job, I get that. I'm just saying that if you'd have to have a specialized platoon, why not keep it in the squadron? (That's a legitimate question, and your opinions would be helpful)

 

[Towards_the_gap]

:facepalm:

Dude just stop.

 

[Pte. Jay]

:facepalm:

Dude just stop.

Alright, fine. Retract my statement guys... 

 

[MikeL]

I'm just saying that if you'd have to have a specialized platoon, why not keep it in the squadron?

What would be the benefit of increasing the manning(and associated kit, etc) of 427 SOAS to have a in house CSAR Platoon?  As well,  would 427 need to have it's own selection, etc for recruiting members to fill the CSAR positions?

What do you see as the negative of say, tasking CSOR(or other CANSOF pers) as required for CSAR?

Also,  why should it be a 427 tasking?  Why couldn't any of the other Tac Hel Sqns be tasked with it?