Cap Badges

[Nfld Sapper]

perhaps one of the storsie types can answer this one,  seeing as all elements are issued two types of head dress (2 berets for the army types) Wedge and Peak Cap for the Airforce and Navy guys why is the entitlement for cap badges 1 not 2 just curious, not that I care much as most QM's will issue enough to get all your head dress sorted out?

AFAIK we army type are only issued one beret. (Vern/BinRat confirm?)

 

[armyvern]

perhaps one of the storsie types can answer this one,  seeing as all elements are issued two types of head dress (2 berets for the army types) Wedge and Peak Cap for the Airforce and Navy guys why is the entitlement for cap badges 1 not 2 just curious, not that I care much as most QM's will issue enough to get all your head dress sorted out?

1 beret for the Army types, thus only one cap badge required for that one headdress that we in the Army wear.

 

[BinRat55]

Vern - I shoulda asked RK the other day but the thought never crossed my mind, but do you think Logistik will take over the cap badges as well some day? It would seem to make sense that when one orders a beret / wedge / peak cap that a cap badge is required... I know certain trades wear out their cap badges much quicker than their lids, but the good outweighs the bad, you think?

 

[armyvern]

Vern - I shoulda asked RK the other day but the thought never crossed my mind, but do you think Logistik will take over the cap badges as well some day? It would seem to make sense that when one orders a beret / wedge / peak cap that a cap badge is required... I know certain trades wear out their cap badges much quicker than their lids, but the good outweighs the bad, you think?

Well, I really don't see the difference as to what it matters if Logistik has the DEU contract. They don't have the capbadge contract and I'm not so sure I'd wanted to be utilizing my resources and spending my money stocking, maintaining, distributing some other companys stuff on my shelves either if I were Logistik.

Initial issue of DEU may come from Logisitk-Unicorp, but it's still issued out to the member at Clothing Stores. Either way, the guy has to come to clothing to get the beret. Usually, the capbadge is presented after the successful completion of trades qualification (NOT at the same time as initial issue of the beret) ... so what would you have Logisitik do - track all the CF's students courses, grad dates, and addresses, remuster dates, recourses etc and send them a capbadge at the end of their course? I'm pretty sure, that's our job. You're creating a monster.

As it is, (IF there's stock - ie a 'contract' which is deliverable and in delivery) members can go to their supporting clothing activity to pick up a new capbadge if they want one on the day they need one - not wait 5 days to get one in the mail which would be the case if Logistik had them.

I actually just got a large email from Roger just before I went on leave answering my "cap badges and DEU "Where is the stock!!??" question ... I'll pull out the pertinent parts and post up on Monday to detail exactly where/what/how the accoutrement contract stage currently sits.

 

[BinRat55]

I see your point - I was going in the same direction as the rank and Canada badges, but yeah, looking at it that way you're right - why wait 5 days when someone may need it today? Still, i'll be willing to bet that within a year or two you'll see Logistik with them anyway. We are up to 388 items on the contract now and it grows monthly!! Hopefully they don't put us out of business!! Think they'll be looking for a few good supply techs in a year or so?

 

[ArmyGuy99]

1 beret for the Army types, thus only one cap badge required for that one headdress that we in the Army wear.

I was issued two berets at CFLRS, 1 for everyday/field, 1 for looking pretty on parade (Although only 1 badge).  When I graduated from my 3's we were issued only 1 Cap Badge.  Go Figure.  I haven't tried to get another Cap Badge yet for 2nd beret.

 

[armyvern]

I see your point - I was going in the same direction as the rank and Canada badges, but yeah, looking at it that way you're right - why wait 5 days when someone may need it today? Still, i'll be willing to bet that within a year or two you'll see Logistik with them anyway. We are up to 388 items on the contract now and it grows monthly!! Hopefully they don't put us out of business!! Think they'll be looking for a few good supply techs in a year or so?

I'm wagering you're wrong with your predicition. And it's a point that we consistently shot down in our CF Clothing WGs, MASOP WGs, and CLS Clothing WGs.

For Logisitk-Unicorp (a civilian contractor) to have capbadges for trade qualifications ... and to issue them out on behalf of the CF ...

They'd have to be privvy to a whole lot of personal info about everyone who was remustering, what, where, when their course was / everyone who was enrolling and a what/where/when their courses were; same for having to be able to "see" who was recoursed medical or otherwise etc etc. - They'd need to know all this in order to get the capbadge/shoulder flashs etc o the individual the day they were entitled to them.

The CF already has a whole bunch invested in a program called peoplesoft that does that (especially into the MITE-side), and people who know how to use it - people who would have to still do all this tracking on the CF-side of the house regardless of whether Logistik-Unicorp carried accoutrements or not. Why the heck would we pay an additional few million to a civilian company (and avail them of such a vast array of trg cycle and personal info) to do what we have to do anyway.

We need more bullets. And chest rigs, and a boot allowance; what we do not need is another grand scheme to "save" money that ends up costing us more in the end when the CF will still be required to maintain it's capability to track it's soldiers, sailors and airmen.

 

[armyvern]

I was issued two berets at CFLRS, 1 for everyday/field, 1 for looking pretty on parade (Although only 1 badge).   When I graduated from my 3's we were issued only 1 Cap Badge.  Go Figure.  I haven't tried to get another Cap Badge yet for 2nd beret.

Aren't you lucky then. You're entitled to 1 beret. You are entitled to exchange that 1 beret via Logistik-Unicorp when you require to.

Just because you got 2, does not make it an entitlement; someone fucked up -- and you happened to be the beneficiary of such. It really is that simple. Unless, of course, the scale of entitlement for us Army types has changed in the past 3 weeks while I was on leave, which is, entirely possible. I'll check on Monday.

So says the girl (a Sup Tech at that) that just used her personal points to get herself a new beret (a parade one) from Logistik-Unicorp for the upcoming Freedom of the City Parade so that I'd 'look pretty'. Now, if I could only get a f'n cap badge to put on the damn thing.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Vern I gotta say then that that person have been messing up since at least 1996 and has done so in the tens of thousands times in the last 12 years, even when I can back to the Army from the navy the initial issue entitlement was 2 Berets it even had the folks at clothing stores scratching thier heads.

 

[armyvern]

Vern I gotta say then that that person have been messing up since at least 1996 and has done so in the tens of thousands times in the last 12 years, even when I can back to the Army from the navy the initial issue entitlement was 2 Berets it even had the folks at clothing stores scratching thier heads.

Well, I'll tell you this much. For the hundreds of times that I have downloaded the Army Scales of entitlements - NEVER have I seen the qty "2" listed for berets. Never.

Here's a copy and paste of the beret from the most recent version of the scale that I have here, but - like I said - it may have changed in the last few weeks.

D01301AA 002 8405 211033768 SIGC - BERET GREEN 8405211033768 EA 1 For new recruits only.

 

[armyvern]

Vern I gotta say then that that person have been messing up since at least 1996 and has done so in the tens of thousands times in the last 12 years, even when I can back to the Army from the navy the initial issue entitlement was 2 Berets it even had the folks at clothing stores scratching thier heads.

I now know two people who were issued 2 berets. Yourself and Med below.

That's it.

No clothing stores that I've ever worked at or supervised has issued out two. I think you may be presuming a whole lot with your "thousands" and that it has been routine for the last 12 years.

As a matter of fact, at CLS working Groups that I attended just last year -- that was one of our big fights!! Even the one Naval rep and one AF rep that attended those WGs fought along with all of us Army Sup types to get the Army entitlement raised to 2 each because it was "1".

Our justification for our arguement that our Army entitlement needed to be raised was that:

"now that clothing doesn't stock berets any more, members should be issued two upon initial issue so that if one of their berets is stolen or damaged, they have another that they can wear because they can't walk around for 5 days without headdress waiting for a replacement from Logistik."

Perhaps I'll post up the minutes of the WGs though --- just to convince you that this is not simply a figment of my imagination. I'm sure I've even mentioned the scrap and attempts to get the entitlement raised to 2 each berets for Army folks in other threads on this forum.

 

[ArmyGuy99]

Aren't you lucky then. You're entitled to 1 beret. You are entitled to exchange that 1 beret via Logistik-Unicorp when you require to.

Yeah, I'm Lucky.  I feel real special now.  ;D  Now if I can only win the lotto with that luck

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

All I'm saying is that when I joined the CF in 96 I was issued 2 Berets at CFLRS along with all the other Army types in the Coy, and again when I transferred back to the Army in 07 I was issued 2 Along with everyone else in my Coy and by extension presumably every soldier that passed through the CFLRS to recieve thier initial issue since at least 1996 has been issued 2 Berets, perhaps one of the CFLRS instructors on the site can provide some insight as to why the clothing stores in ST Jean disregards entitlement scales in this case.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Well it also seems that CFLRS disregards scales when they ask for alot of land items back when you are finished there (Vern can confirm this) [i.e. rain jackets, etc]

 

[armyvern]

Well it also seems that CFLRS disregards scales when they ask for alot of land items back when you are finished there (Vern can confirm this) [i.e. rain jackets, etc]

CLS has a whole document out with directives as to the current handling procedures for Army Op clothing ... with Saint Jean having been deemed the first CF priority, Gagetown as priority number two.

This document clearly lays out why, and an authority, for Saint Jean to take back kit items from field soldiers departing their location --- even those coming to this location to receive land training. All that does is double our workload, as we need to take back in Saint Jean and then immediately re-issue the exact same kit items as soon as the troops arrive in Gagetown so that a 'cease training' situation on career courses is avoided ... but that obviously made sense to someone out there. I know that it's been received at LFDTS months ago, they were cc'd when I got mine - this situation shouldn't be a surprise anymore to anyone in the Army.

And, we can only re-issue if we can get the kit here, being a lower priority than Saint Jean of course to actually send us stock to issue of the criticly short kit items . Can you say "Command Loan Pools" are the norm these days rather than the exception? The Land Force is just not getting enough kit into the system quick enough to handle it's increased recruiting tempo.

I just forward that document now when an RSM or course staff call me to ask ... "why can't my troops have this? They're entitled to it." ... Although, granted, the entire LF CoC should be quite familiar with this document and have already received it. Some, obviously, deleted it from their inboxes without reading it - that's why the Supply CoC is still being bombarded with questions and rants.

 

[danchapps]

I now know two people who were issued 2 berets. Yourself and Med below.

Hey Vern, you may want to make that 3, plus the rest of the folks on my BMQ platoon. I know the scale says 1. I've seen it myself, many times as well. They gave us two when I was there, we even had to display the 2nd beret in our locker layout for inspections. I have no idea what happens in St-Jean clothing, but when I was in Borden we had a lotof headaches because of them.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

After having thought about this for a while, could the second beret be one the same scal of issue as things like running shoes and towels,  issued one in a lifetime only, that would certainly explain the discrepency between what is issued and what is entitled.

 

[Adamant]

I now know two people who were issued 2 berets. Yourself and Med below.

You can add another 13 to that list, as every green trade on my BOTC was issued two. 

During inspection, one was on their head and one was in the closet on the top shelf, matching the placement of my wedge and the Navy guys cap.

As this all being WAY out of my lane, I wouldn't even fathom a guess as two why the entitlement is one and the issue is 2.

 

[danchapps]

You can add another 13 to that list, as every green trade on my BOTC was issued two. 

During inspection, one was on their head and one was in the closet on the top shelf, matching the placement of my wedge and the Navy guys cap.

As this all being WAY out of my lane, I wouldn't even fathom a guess as two why the entitlement is one and the issue is 2.

I have no idea what happens in St-Jean clothing, but when I was in Borden we had a lot of headaches because of them.

St-Jean Clothing seems to do their own thing. I'm not there, haven't worked there, but odd things happen there. When they let you keep muck lucks but not a combat scarf, well, that's just bizarre. Also, when troops exchange boots they don't bring in the young troopies to try them on before they are issued, and often they find out too late, or in the field that they have ill-fitting boots. (I found out the hard way, messed up my feet due to too small of a boot).

 

[BinRat55]

St-Jean Clothing seems to do their own thing.... but odd things happen there. ....that's just bizarre.

Now THERE'S an understatement!!