• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

CFB Cold Lake Thread- Merged

The only saving grace this young Cpl, and pretty much any AVN/AVS posted to 4 Wing, has is a recognized trade that can go towards his apprenticeship for pretty much anything mechanical in the oil patch. Attitudes in young people getting posted here in the past few years have changed big time. They see their buddies leaving for greener pastures, often proclaiming how much better it is on the outside - you'd have to be pretty patriotic to stick it out for the majority of your career in Cold Lake. Money and budgets are tight and a posting out of here is like winning the lottery. For the younger generation money counts big time and most companies offer nearly identical benefits and pension packages to what the CF does. IMO, most major civy companies out here value their worker more than the CF/Government does right now. If the CAS truly believes that "we'll just recruit more people" will solve all the issues then I wish him good luck.  :-X  :2c:
 
Jungle said:
It means that I observed a lot of shiny, expensive toys in the Cold Lake PMQs. I am not saying it is the case of the Cpl in the story, but not everybody in the Cold Lake PMQs is a CWO or Maj and above...

That's actually a fairly accurate statement applicable to those residing on AND off base. In fact, I seem to recall the RV/Boat winter parking compound needing to be expanded due to no more spots available and a long waiting list. Yet I picked up our CO once at the airport and we had a long chat about various topics during the 3 hour drive. Of course the cost of living came up and he remarked how he wanted a boat and in theory "could" afford it dollar-wise but "couldn't" afford it good decision-wise. He already had a ski-doo and figured kids sports and activities were a better year-round investment compared to a boat that would not get much use based on Cold Lake's short summer. His vehicle happened to be a 13 year old truck he bought new.
 
Hello,

I'm sorry, guys, I don't mean to troll. My name is Jen Gerson and I'm a reporter with the National Post. I'm writing a story about the economic/housing conditions up in CFB Cold Lake and I'm really hoping to find some military personnel with families who are trying to make ends meet. I understand people have been told not to speak to the media and I don't want to get anybody into trouble -- I'll be happy to respect a request for anonymity, if you wish. But I think a lot of civilians would be shocked by the conditions and this is a story that is really going to get the government's attention. However, I really need to speak to people who are actually dealing with these conditions.

If you're wiling, my email address is jgerson@nationalpost.com: 403 228 0349. Alternatively, feel free to pass this note around to anyone who has recently left the military and gone on to the oil patch due to the economic situation. I'd be happy to speak to them as well.

Warm Regards,
Jen Gerson
 
jgerson said:
..... I'm really hoping to find some military personnel with families who are trying to make ends meet.
So, you're not interested in talking with those who plan financially, live responsibly within their means, and essentially aren't out to embarrass the military.

    :not-again: 


No response required; you're already set to <ignore>
 
Well, I'm trying to juggle a few things at once, but of course!

If you think what Cpl. Tremblay did was not acceptable, or that the cost of living situation isn't a concern, I'd be happy to hear from you as well!

Regards,
Jen Gerson
 
I guess this is the product:
After Cold Lake soldier caught busking to make ends meet, viability of military pay in booming ‘little Fort McMurray’ called into question
National Post
Jen Gerson
17 January 2014

CALGARY — Last week, 25-year-old Cpl. Darenn Tremblay set up a folding blue lawn chair on a snow-packed sidewalk in front of a Cold Lake, Alta., big box store, picked up a guitar and began to busk.

Next to him, a folded cardboard sign said: “I am in the Canadian Forces posted to Cold Lake with family any spare change will help.”

The young corporal offered his upturned green helmet, for spare change.

“I do that because we don’t have any money to pay our rent basically,” Cpl. Tremblay told the Sun newspaper chain. He is now facing an investigation for disrespecting the Armed Forces, and declined to respond to other interview requests.

Reactions to the stunt vary: several soldiers who spoke on condition of anonymity said they were deeply embarrassed about the use of a helmet.

“It’s a very disrespectful pictures to all CF members,” said one. “Before we are posted to Cold Lake, we go through several interviews with regards to seclusion, as well as the cost of living there. He would have known what he was getting into being posted there. He should be charged and booted from the Forces.”

Like most soldiers, the 1,750 military personnel and 450 civilian employees who work on the base are generally service-minded people, little inclined to kick up a public fuss. Incidents like this are rare and jarring.

But that doesn’t mean the soldiers in Cold Lake don’t know why Cpl. Tremblay needed to busk.

After a oil boom that has dramatically pushed up the cost of goods, services and rent, advocacy groups and local political leaders have found themselves appalled by the conditions faced by the young soldiers. While higher ranking officers and single soldiers are comfortable, junior staff with families are struggling to pay basic bills. As many as one third of soldiers on the base have taken a second job just to make ends meet.

CFB Cold Lake, 300 km northeast of Edmonton, has been one of Canada’s premier air force bases for more than 60 years. A massive swath of land just outside the town of 14,000 is dedicated to air weapons training.

Below the action in the air lives a rapidly growing oil patch. And like other oil boom towns, as the workers moved in, the rent and cost of living began to rise dramatically.

To mitigate such problems, the military uses a bureaucratic formula called a Post Living Differential (PLD), which is meant to even out the local economic differences between military personnel.

However, the fee has been frozen since 2010, so it hasn’t factored in the spike in rent in military-owned housing. Soldiers in Cold lake receive a PLD of $319 a month — less than half what those stationed near Edmonton receive.

It’s also considered a taxable benefit — it winds up putting only about $100 in a soldier’s pocket every paycheque.

“A lot of oil patch people will call Cold Lake ‘little Fort McMurray,’” said the town’s mayor, Craig Copeland.

“Rent in Cold Lake has gone up from five years ago. You used to be able to get a two-bedroom apartment around $1,000 to $1,200 a month and now, because of the latest boom in the oil patch, in the last year and a half or so … rent has really shot up. Now two-bedroom apartments, good ones, are going for between $1,800 to $2,200.”

About a decade ago, the military stopped subsidizing its on-base housing. Instead, they began to charge the local market rate for rents. In order to maintain a “nationally consistent process,” the military calculates the rents in Ottawa using Canadian Mortgage Housing Corporation data.

That process isn’t forgiving to soldiers who live in remote towns struck by oil wealth.

“A normal person would look at this story, see a house built in the ‘50s and ask ‘Why in the world are you charging market rate rents for these people? They work for you? Why do we need to gouge them on the rent?’” said the mayor.

Fearing backlash, few soldiers were willing to speak candidly about the situation. Christine, a soldier’s wife with three young children, said even spouses are too concerned to complain publicly.

“We get crap living conditions,” she said. “Every year my husband gets a raise and our rent goes up. It doesn’t matter.”

After almost two years on the base, she said her husband’s paycheque of about $58,000 is not covering basic expenses.

“Our paycheques do not pay our day-to-day living. We were very lucky in the sense that when we came here, we had money saved up, but that’s all dwindled and we’ve been pulling out of our house-savings fund,” she said.

... (more at link)
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/01/17/after-cold-lake-soldier-caught-busking-to-make-ends-meet-questions-asked-about-the-viability-of-military-pay-in-booming-little-fort-mcmurray/

 
jgerson said:
But I think a lot of civilians would be shocked by the conditions and this is a story that is really going to get the government's attention. However, I really need to speak to people who are actually dealing with these conditions

So, are you certain these conditions exist or are you speculating right now?
 
One point that often gets forgotten in discussions about PMQ rents is that if they are not at the market rate, it creates an unfair situation for those who do not live in them.  Why should some CF members have access to subsidized housing when others do not?  Remember that all those who do not live in base housing are also paying market rates.
 
Pusser said:
One point that often gets forgotten in discussions about PMQ rents is that if they are not at the market rate, it creates an unfair situation for those who do not live in them.  Why should some CF members have access to subsidized housing when others do not?  Remember that all those who do not live in base housing are also paying market rates.

The point to remember here is that in most cases those not living in subsidized housing on Base and paying rent, are paying a mortgage for a house that meets their 'needs' and will belong to them; an investment that they can sell when they move.
 
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/01/17/after-cold-lake-soldier-caught-busking-to-make-ends-meet-questions-asked-about-the-viability-of-military-pay-in-booming-little-fort-mcmurray/
He should be charged and booted from the Forces.

Great way to solve the problem, charge and kick him out. :facepalm: I believe in this case, doing just that would only make matters worse.
 
Jen Gersons article seemed pretty good to me.  I'm shocked to read that rent went from $1000 to $2000 +/- over the course of a few years and soldiers there get a net of $100 a paycheck from pld.

So if a member is in one of the interviews regarding being posted to the remote location and says nope I won't be able to do it, does that mean they will get posted somewhere else instead?
 
George Wallace said:
The point to remember here is that in most cases those not living in subsidized housing on Base and paying rent, are paying a mortgage for a house that meets their 'needs' and will belong to them; an investment that they can sell when they move.

True, but it more importantly penalizes those who can't get into a PMQ due to availability or other factors, and have to pay market rent on the economy.
 
Quirky said:
MCG said:
I guess this is the product: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/01/17/after-cold-lake-soldier-caught-busking-to-make-ends-meet-questions-asked-about-the-viability-of-military-pay-in-booming-little-fort-mcmurray/
He should be charged and booted from the Forces.


Great way to solve the problem, charge and kick him out. :facepalm: I believe in this case, doing just that would only make matters worse.

If you are going to make a quote and then screw up that quote making it appear that someone made a statement that they did not, then you are breaching our ethics here. 
 
ModlrMike said:
True, but it more importantly penalizes those who can't get into a PMQ due to availability or other factors, and have to pay market rent on the economy.

NO.  It does not.  If the subsidized housing is not up to the same standards of construction and maintenance as those on the economy, why should someone pay the same going rates.  Would you pay $1000 to live in a shack with no insulation on Base, when you can pay $1000 to rent a fully insulated, maintained home on the economy.  This is BS.
 
George Wallace said:
NO.  It does not.  If the subsidized housing is not up to the same standards of construction and maintenance as those on the economy, why should someone pay the same going rates.  Would you pay $1000 to live in a shack with no insulation on Base, when you can pay $1000 to rent a fully insulated, maintained home on the economy.  This is BS.

I think that is the root of the issue. CF members don't mind paying market rates, for market-standard housing. When you're paying 50% of the cost of your rent on heat every month because subj PMQ hasn't been modernized since 1962, people have issues when CFHA demands market rent.
 
George Wallace said:
If you are going to make a quote and then screw up that quote making it appear that someone made a statement that they did not, then you are breaching our ethics here.

That was not my intention. Anyone reading this thread probably understands that I quoted the article, not the poster.
 
George Wallace said:
Great way to solve the problem, charge and kick him out. :facepalm: I believe in this case, doing just that would only make matters worse.


If you are going to make a quote and then screw up that quote making it appear that someone made a statement that they did not, then you are breaching our ethics here.

George,  the quote is indeed in/from the linked article.

 
Pusser said:
One point that often gets forgotten in discussions about PMQ rents is that if they are not at the market rate, it creates an unfair situation for those who do not live in them.  Why should some CF members have access to subsidized housing when others do not? Remember that all those who do not live in base housing are also paying market rates.

Again, someone is forgetting to mention that the difference between "fair market value" and what they are actually paying is also included on the member's T4s as taxable income.  IE:  If this kid is paying only 75% of "fair market value", then the 25% difference that he does not pay each month is tallied up and included on his T4s as taxable allowances & benefits.
 
DND would be wise to get out of the housing business - leave that to professional investors and landlords. Pay people a reasonable PLD if the market requires it, and review rates often. Stop trying to pretend that we can actually get it right with PMQ's.
 
Spectrum said:
DND would be wise to get out of the housing business - leave that to professional investors and landlords. Pay people a reasonable PLD if the market requires it, and review rates often. Stop trying to pretend that we can actually get it right with PMQ's.

:goodpost:

Bingo.
 
Back
Top