There seems to be quite a divide in opinion between all the retired folk and those currently in service. I think it would be incredibly hard on a uni-lingual family to move to an area where they don't speak the language. I'm wondering if you would have a different opinion if uni-lingual children were involved? I'm fine having my wife "deal with it"... but my kids? Much harder.
CFB Cold Lake Thread- Merged
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Dolphin_Hunter said:
I doubt that, I can still get lots of service in English in Quebec. In fact when I was learning to speak French I had to ask people to answer me in French so I'd learn. I somehow doubt if I speak French in Edmonton I'm going to receive any answer. Not to mention TV choices etc....
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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Until the language gestapo puts an end to it.... :
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Guiding your life based on media stories I take it??
devil39
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The whole mobility argument irritates me.
If we want our military to be truly mobile, then bring back cheap PMQs with the same price everywhere, and base schools with a common curriculum across Canada. Then there is NO excuse for not being mobile.
Until that happens, you will see members not willing to sacrifice the well being of their family and quite literally their children's future (by virtue of education) for the mobility demands of the service.
If we want our military to be truly mobile, then bring back cheap PMQs with the same price everywhere, and base schools with a common curriculum across Canada. Then there is NO excuse for not being mobile.
Until that happens, you will see members not willing to sacrifice the well being of their family and quite literally their children's future (by virtue of education) for the mobility demands of the service.
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http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Quebec+putting+tape+between+military+families+English+schools+complaint/9456507/story.html
Not worth the headache, tax ache, and general other ache to give Quebec a shot. As much as I'd feel excellent about it helping my career by offering immersion language training, the stress at home is not something I want as an added challenge. If I'm posted to Quebec, its on IR.
Not worth the headache, tax ache, and general other ache to give Quebec a shot. As much as I'd feel excellent about it helping my career by offering immersion language training, the stress at home is not something I want as an added challenge. If I'm posted to Quebec, its on IR.
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omghax said:
Lots of us were posted to Europe with families and most of us didn't speak the languges, but we all learned. Lots of wives also spent all day living in little villiages conversing and socializing with locals. Lots of those same wives also had jobs.
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kratz said:
Never is a very long time when every posting has a myriad of individual considerations. Certainly, the needs of the service is the priority. Hard ball in this day and age is not likely to fulfill the needs of anyone. If a member releases as opposed to taking a posting there are now two positions to be filled, as opposed to one. In some trades and ranks maybe that isn't a problem but I doubt the pool of people is limitless.
The reality is that taking a 40-60% family pay cut coupled with a cost of living increase for two or three or five years is not going to be acceptable to a lot of people. Since needing permission to be married was taken off the QR&O's (or more likely KR&O's) the CM/Service cannot be surprised that family situations are a factor.
Just because a posting works for one person doesn't mean that it will work for all people.
Before anyone gets the bright idea to attack me, I took my posting hit for the service. It was exceedingly expensive even without taking a double income hit. It worked(ish) when it did but it won't work twice.
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recceguy said:
AN OUTCAN, is nothing like a posting to Quebec, in an OUTCAN, you have a family bond with other members on base/unit/embassy, your wife and children get that extended family bond through other families that are in the same cirumstances.
Couple that with major cutbacks and 0 SLT slots open.
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upandatom said:
Really? Are you telling me that your family has no intentions to explore their new environs and not attempt to learn about another culture and their language? Are you trying to tell us that your family is in a unique situation where there are no other Anglophones posted to your base?
I call BS.
Even those of us who had OUTCAN postings have seen people like you in the past; people who are 'intolerant' and 'unwilling' to experience something that is different and foreign to what they were accustomed to. They did not last long on those postings and were returned to Canada. Sadly, it is their loss, not the CAF's.
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George Wallace said:
Not once did i say that, and yes there are other Anglophones, yes my family and them do get together when the opportunity is available.
I do know people that have had OUTCANS that did not make it as well, maybe lasting two years max.
medicineman
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George beat me to it - posting to Quebec can be looked at as an OUTCAN in the same way you described, since there are a lot of Anglo's posted to Valcatraz or Bagotville or St Jean. Strangely enough, they generally adapt...or pull the pin. In he same vein, an awful lot more Francophones get posted OUTQUE and have to go through the same ordeal.
People are told when they sign on the dotted line that the needs of the Service outweigh the needs of you - they may be taken into account, but that's MAY with a lot of lines under it. The CF would rather have someone that is able to move wherever and whenever than someone that digs in every time a new posting comes up, desirable or otherwise.
MM
People are told when they sign on the dotted line that the needs of the Service outweigh the needs of you - they may be taken into account, but that's MAY with a lot of lines under it. The CF would rather have someone that is able to move wherever and whenever than someone that digs in every time a new posting comes up, desirable or otherwise.
MM
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No, I know I signed the magical dotted line.
In my specific case, its more of a unit thing, then a location.
I am dealing with it, BELIEVE ME. I have broken Google translate on more then one occasion.
From another point of view, I know people get posted/sent where they dont want too. Yet other members, want those spots, but without looking at the whole picture sometimes, and getting tunnel vision, sometimes wrong not the best option for postings and decisions are made.
ie- my spot has 25 people wanting it- most of them are members, high up in their years, looking to retire. Its a good spot for that, unfortunately, I am not looking to retire anytime soon. ( I have been contacted by several asking me what my plans are because they want the spot)
However, on an "OUTQUE" a member can ask for an SLT, part time, and they get thrown at them.
I know for a fact in Valcartier, they hand out french courses like Candy.
In my specific case, its more of a unit thing, then a location.
I am dealing with it, BELIEVE ME. I have broken Google translate on more then one occasion.
From another point of view, I know people get posted/sent where they dont want too. Yet other members, want those spots, but without looking at the whole picture sometimes, and getting tunnel vision, sometimes
ie- my spot has 25 people wanting it- most of them are members, high up in their years, looking to retire. Its a good spot for that, unfortunately, I am not looking to retire anytime soon. ( I have been contacted by several asking me what my plans are because they want the spot)
However, on an "OUTQUE" a member can ask for an SLT, part time, and they get thrown at them.
I know for a fact in Valcartier, they hand out french courses like Candy.
Again, I can't help but note the clear difference in opinion between retired and current members. It should be noted that (as already mentioned) military provided services have been massively cut or completely removed. Schools, Canex, PMQs: all of these have changed dramatically.
I think all of this arguing about postings may be mute. I feel that the latest budgetary constraints will mean that postings will be few and far between. I figure most postings will be done within the same geographic location/base to keep costs down. Which is good I suppose... if you like where you are.
I think all of this arguing about postings may be mute. I feel that the latest budgetary constraints will mean that postings will be few and far between. I figure most postings will be done within the same geographic location/base to keep costs down. Which is good I suppose... if you like where you are.
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Jungle said:
As do all of us who know you -- can't help but wonder what the poor girl did in a previous life to deserve this. >
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omghax said:
Very much so, I remember growing up on bases, Cold Lake, That had a Gym, Canex, Grocery and Retail, Gas Station, and good ole bleachers. I remember the pool being full of kids swimming in the summer afternoons and non stop basketball in the mornings. Alot more support back then. They say the support system is still there, but i oddly enough remember it being alot stronger back then.
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I can't stand the "it happened to me therefore it should happened to you" attitude but fine, I'll always take it with a grain of salt.
My issue isn't simply that Anglophones get posted in Valcatraz, it's more that you repeatedly have situations where two QL3 courses are running concurrently (one French and one English) and two francos get sent to Pet while two anglos get sent to Valcratraz. Nobody is happy, and the four guys are told "trading" is impossible. I can tell you first-hand that it IS resulting in guys either releasing or turning down new contracts.
Just for the record, 9erD isn't a "whiner". I don't have any patience for whining either. Hi-lighting ridiculousness isn't necessarily whining, it's more confusion as to why the situation persists.
I don't know. I'm not at all trying to stir the pot but I just don't understand it.
My issue isn't simply that Anglophones get posted in Valcatraz, it's more that you repeatedly have situations where two QL3 courses are running concurrently (one French and one English) and two francos get sent to Pet while two anglos get sent to Valcratraz. Nobody is happy, and the four guys are told "trading" is impossible. I can tell you first-hand that it IS resulting in guys either releasing or turning down new contracts.
Just for the record, 9erD isn't a "whiner". I don't have any patience for whining either. Hi-lighting ridiculousness isn't necessarily whining, it's more confusion as to why the situation persists.
I don't know. I'm not at all trying to stir the pot but I just don't understand it.
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CombatMacguyver said:
Agreed,
And with the increased cost of living, having two kids and keeping them active is starting to cost more and more. Where as in the 80s/90s it was not uncommon for 9erD to stay home with the children, and still live a happy, fairly financially safe lifestyle due to PMQs, doing what they were supposed to, which is to keep cost of living down.
"Enjoy the suck " and "suck it up buttercup" are not ways to treat your troops, Its called toxic leadership. It is a huge problem right now due to the "it happened to me attitude." I agree that certain stressful Situations need to imposed upon troops to train and develop them, however, a stressful day to day life at home is not. The happier your boys and girls are at home, the better they will work for you.
Its funny, I grew up in Cold Lake, in Martineau, I jumped that burm at the bottom of Martineau hill many a time onto the creek while on my GT in the winter time, and more then several times I broke through the ice. I dont ever really recall my family having financial problems due to the accomodations while in Medley. Its funny how 15 years can change an area.
