CFHA Residential Housing Unit (RHU)-old PMQ [MERGED]

[George Wallace]

I lived in Grenadier Village, less than 5 min North of Base, right off Hwy 15 at the Ultramar, after LaSalle High School.  Lots of CF members live in that area.  That used to be known as Pittsburg Township, and has really grown in the last fifteen to twenty years.  Very nice homes in there.  Rumours that the CF will be renting in the new Industrial Park, so where ever you will work, will only be a short drive, or even a short walk.  A fairly decent place to live.

 

[PMedMoe]

Greenwood Park (just north of Grenadier Village) is nice too.

 

[REDinstaller]

Greenwood park aka PMQ North. The drive down 15 in the morning is quite retarded though. Plan on a 30min drive at peak times during the day. Or have a 15 min bike ride.

 

[gcclarke]

For what it's worth, Ontario's Residential Tenancies Act specifies the following:

7. (1) Paragraphs 6, 7 and 8 of subsection 30 (1), sections 51, 52, 54, 55, 56 and 95 to 99, subsection 100 (2) and sections 101, 102, 104, 111 to 115, 117, 120, 121, 122, 126 to 133, 140, 143, 149, 150, 151, 159, 165 and 167 do not apply with respect to a rental unit described below:

1. A rental unit located in a residential complex owned, operated or administered by or on behalf of the Ontario Housing Corporation, the Government of Canada or an agency of either of them.

An index of the subsections is located here: http://www.ontariotenants.ca/law/act.phtml

If the subsection that concerns a tenant's right to store a non-road insured vehicle on the rental property is located in one of the negated sections, I don't think you have any chance to win any lawsuit. If no, then I think you have a decent chance. As for the clause stated above that people living in PMQs don't count as tenants, well, frankly, that's worth the paper it's written on. A person cannot sign away their rights in a contract. Any clause that contradicts rights specifically outlined in legislation will not be upheld in court. For example, any rental agreement / lease in Ontario that specifies that you cannot have pets will, when your landlord tries to evict you, have that clause ignored by the courts, as the Residential Tenancies Act specifies that "No Pet" provisions are void.

So, unless someone knows about some separate federal act that might override these provisions, it's entirely possible that people living in PMQs have a bit more "rights" than they may have thought. I had a glance at the index of the NDA, and nothing leaped out at me as being pertinent.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

A person cannot sign away their rights in a contract.

??? I'm pretty sure that we signed away a number of 'rights' when we enrolled...

 

[armyvern]

So, unless someone knows about some separate federal act that might override these provisions, it's entirely possible that people living in PMQs have a bit more "rights" than they may have thought. I had a glance at the index of the NDA, and nothing leaped out at me as being pertinent.

Federally owned housing is not just applicable to the DND and CF ---

DAOD 5024-0, DND Living Accommodation that references the following links:

Federal Real Property and Federal Immovables Act

Federal Real Property Regulations

Treasury Board Policy on Management of Real Property

DND Living Accommodation Instruction

the

10.  DND Living Accommodation - Conditions of Occupancy
10.1  General
Occupancy is subject to a number of conditions. These conditions are contained in a document called the "Conditions of Occupancy”, which is available through the Managing Authority.

The occupant of record shall sign a copy of the “Conditions of Occupancy” prior to occupancy and shall abide by its contents throughout the period of his/her occupancy. The Managing Authority may prescribe additional conditions of occupancy as are considered necessary for national application and to meet changing living conditions, provided they are not at variance with governing accommodation regulations and orders. Occupant of Record must be informed, in writing, of amendments to the “Conditions of Occupancy” within 30 days of the amendment.

Where multiple single members or service couples occupy DND housing, one CF member shall be the occupant of record, pay shelter charge, responsible to sign and ensure that all occupants comply with the “Conditions of Occupancy”.

As an occupant is not a tenant, in accordance with the Isolated Posts and Government Housing Directive  (IPGHD), and has no legal estate or interest in the premises, a DND housing unit cannot be sublet or assigned to others.

Subject to applicable local by-laws and provincial regulations, DND housing may be used for commercial purposes, (e.g., daycare or hair salon) with written permission from the base/wing commander. Details regarding the operation of a business from a DND housing unit can be found in a CFHA MIG.

That, in turn, links us to:

Isolated Posts and Government Housing Directive  (IPGHD)

Part VI - Government Housing
6.1 General6.1.1 To carry out its responsibilities, the Government of Canada must be able to house employees in all parts of the country. Employees are normally responsible for securing their own accommodation. It is not the intent of the directive to provide government housing to employees who own residential accommodation in the location.
...
6.5 Occupancy Agreement
No formal landlord-tenant relationship exists between the government and employee-occupants of government-provided accommodation. However, departments and occupants should sign occupancy agreements so that mutual responsibilities are clearly understood. Appendix L provides a sample generic occupancy agreement and related terms and conditions. Departments are encouraged to utilize this document to ensure the uniform treatment of occupants. Additional clauses may be appended to these terms and conditions to reflect peculiar local requirements.

6.5.2 The Occupancy Agreement for Government Housing (Appendix L ) shall apply equally to each occupant of the shared, self-contained accommodation.

6.5.3 Requirements for sharing should form part of the generic agreement for employee occupancy of government-provided accommodation, e.g. attachments to the agreement, in order to clarify responsibilities of individual occupants.

Annex L states in the generic Occupany Agreement:

...Occupants must park in designated parking areas. The Government shall have the right to remove any vehicle parked in other areas and costs for vehicle removal and restoration of area, will be the responsibility of the occupant.
5.Nothing shall be done or permitted which will create a fire hazard. This shall include the following:
...
...6.The occupant shall not allow ashes, garbage, unserviceable vehicles or other loose objectionable material to accumulate in or about the building, yard or passages on the premises
...

 

[gcclarke]

??? I'm pretty sure that we signed away a number of 'rights' when we enrolled...

Well, not really. It's not the contract that we signed that governs whether or not we have those "rights". It's the National Defence Act. If we had just signed a contract that stated all the provisions without the existance of the NDA, those clauses of the contract wouldn't be enforcable in court.

 

[armyvern]

Well, not really. It's not the contract that we signed that governs whether or not we have those "rights". It's the National Defence Act. If we had just signed a contract that stated all the provisions without the existance of the NDA, those clauses of the contract wouldn't be enforcable in court.

In the case of Government housing for employees, it's the Federal Real Property and Federal Immovables Act that governs. I linked it below ... it's more confusing than anything I've seen put out by the CF or DND!!

 

[DirtyDog]

You should've just parked it in the parking lots at the G lines.  I've seen derelict vehicles parked there for over a year at a time, flat tires and all.  Infact, I towed a few out of the way to free up prime parking spots.

 

[Pusser]

Only if you are still in the 2 year window of being posted to a new base. Otherwise its out of pocket.

Correct.  The original post (at least the one on this tangent) implied that the individual was well within that window.

On another note, SISIP Financial Services are more about long term (i.e. retirement) planning.  I'm not sure what they could do for you in a more short term scenario such as this.  Be careful about investing any down payment money in the interim.  You don't want to put it into an investment that will penalize you if you take it out too soon.  Also keep in mind that many long term investment plans will actually lose money in the short term (and return big in the long term). 

On the size of the down payment, keep in mind that anything less than 25% will require you to take out mortgage default insurance with CMHC.  If the CF is covering your costs, this is a claimable expense (especially if this is your first house).  When you are posted and go to buy a replacement house in your new location, you can only claim that part of mortgage default insurance that you would pay if you transfer ALL your equity into the replacement property.  I know that thinking of buying your next house when you're still thinking of buying the first one seems a bit far ahead of yourself, but forewarned is forearmed!  The rule of thumb on posting is if you want the CF to cover the entire cost of mortgage default insurance is to ensure you transfer all your equity to the new house (ie. don't skim off the top to buy a new car).  However, if you put 25% or more down on your house, there is no Mortgage Default Insurance and this problem goes away.

On a final note, do not confuse Mortgage Default Insurance with Mortgage Life Insurance.  MDI is required by law if you do not have a down payment of at least 25%.  Mortgage life insurance is something the bank will try to sell you (yes, you pay for it and it is NOT claimable from the CF under any circumstances).  Essentially, it pays off the mortgage if you die.  A far better deal is to take out SISIP Optional Group Term Insurance (OGTI) for at least the value of the mortgage.  It's a lot cheaper and a better deal.  Then if you die, your heir will have enough money to pay off the mortgage.  The bonus is that the longer you live, the less the remaining balance on the mortgage will be, which means the more actual cash in your heir's pocket - you may not want to explain that to your heir though ;D  The life insurance your mortgage lender will try to sell you will only pay off the mortgage with nothing left over.

 

[jsolutions_response]

Is there any CFHA in or near Windsor, ON?

 

[Task]

I don't think so...

I found this link that shows where they are available.
http://www.cfha-alfc.forces.gc.ca/hl-el/hl-el-eng.aspx

 

[savorymoose]

I'm starting my 3's soon and hope to be posted to Ottawa around March-April  i was wondering what the pmq's are like around there and their price...pictures would also help a lot. I currently like in the pmq apartments in Halifax but would prefer a house. Any help would be very much appreciated 

 

[acooper]

Your best bet for the PMQs is to check out http://www.cfha-alfc.forces.gc.ca/hl-el/ottawa-eng.aspx. When the time gets closer to when you intend to apply for a PMQ, then use the search available housing link to see what's there. We had to wait about a week or two after applying before getting an offer on a PMQ.

We ended up in the SHHO housing, though. I don't know your family situation, but for us the SHHO is just fine. Rent is cheaper, and we got an end unit 3 bed townhouse. I haven't lived longer than a week there, but my husband has been in it since July and it's working out fine.

 

[George Wallace]

The PMQs in Ottawa are the same as the PMQs at most other Bases.  If you have seen one Base, you have pretty much seen them all.

 

[jpljpl]

Wow - thats quite a bit!
I am heading out to Kingston next month for a CT posting and applied for CFHA and didnt know it would be that much.
Mind you, i am single and not asking for a lot of space.

Are there any other living options for a single guy ?
Any good-value single appts or areas off base / close to the base or on a convenient bus route (preferably bus#12) ?

 

[blacktriangle]

I have a 3 bdrm PMQ there, and it's actually not bad at all. Try to get into the apartments if you can...there are quite a few singles living there, and the rent isn't much, especially if you find someone to move in with.  It takes me about 15 minutes to walk to work (at least from the few times I've done it...haven't lived there much due to courses, taskings and lve) and driving takes only a few minutes.

Short of buying my own house north of the base in Grenadier Village/ Greenwood park, the PMQs seemed to be the best option for myself.

 

[kratz]

Just received, "The letter" from CFHA this week. Our monthly RHU rate is going up $2 per month starting in April 2011, here in Borden. That's not a large increase, so it's not too bad this time around.

 

[PuckChaser]

Second letter in Kingston, no increase in RHU cost. Only increase was $1 a month for water.

 

[GAP]

I'd have to look, but it looks like Wpg went up about $21 and the water rate went up.