CH-146 Griffon

[Kirkhill]

I would get more hooks before either - mainly as I don't want need Griffons (I'd take new Y's though) and am dead-set against the 407 as the RCAF already divested that capability with the Kiowa - and I don't think the CAF has enough Pilots at this point to justify another orphan fleet.

But, as somebody pointed out, you can pack a bunch of little helicopters into a big plane and move them over long distances at a high rate of knots.



Looks as if you could get at least 6 OH-58 / CH-136 / Kiowa / Jet Rangers / ARH-70 into a C17. Each with 14 APKWS (2x 70mm).

Something's better than nothing.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well we could get Belarus to build us 80 Mi-17's, to replace the Griffons. That would substantial increase our lift capability and have a machine where we can get parts from multiple suppliers. Hell have them assembled in Canada for the Canadian job bit...

 

[KevinB]

Well we could get Belarus to build us 80 Mi-17's, to replace the Griffons. That would substantial increase our lift capability and have a machine where we can get parts from multiple suppliers. Hell have them assembled in Canada for the Canadian job bit...

Belarus isn't anyone you want to do business with. They are Putin's little puppet - and a pariah in the West.
The Hip isn't exactly a real step up from the Griffon either.
Sure its bigger and can carry more IF it gets off the ground and stays airborne
None of the suppliers you would trust - and the safety record of them isn't exactly stellar -

- I flew in a few in Afghanistan and Iraq, and a Warsaw Pact type bird would never be my recommendation.
They are great for low vis work when you want a deniable bird - but safety and availability rates aren't what any NATO member would want from a UH.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The kamovs are quite well liked out here on the West Coast for heli-logging. Under Canadian care and control, I think you find safety records and availability will do fine. that's if we buy enough spare parts, because Canada certainly can't brag about availability rates of it's airframes, thanks to part and maintainer shortages.

 

[Kirkhill]

The kamovs are quite well liked out here on the West Coast for heli-logging. Under Canadian care and control, I think you find safety records and availability will do fine. that's if we buy enough spare parts, because Canada certainly can't brag about availability rates of it's airframes, thanks to part and maintainer shortages.

No, Colin. Just, No. Stop.

 

[Good2Golf]

The kamovs are quite well liked out here on the West Coast for heli-logging. Under Canadian care and control, I think you find safety records and availability will do fine. that's if we buy enough spare parts, because Canada certainly can't brag about availability rates of it's airframes, thanks to part and maintainer shortages.

K-Maxes or -32?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

 

[daftandbarmy]

It's a real beast. Watched those move alot of logs really fast a couple of times.

 

[Good2Golf]

Kamovs and Kamans are cools choppers with a high payload to basic weight ratio.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Kamovs and Kamans are cools choppers with a high payload to basic weight ratio.

The Russkie Sea King:


The helicopter was developed for ferrying and anti-submarine warfare. Design work began in 1969 and the first prototype flew in 1973. It was intended to replace the decade-old Kamov Ka-25, and is similar in appearance to its predecessor due to the requirements of fitting in the same hangar space. Like other Kamov military helicopters it has coaxial rotors, removing the need for a tail rotor. Ka-32 variants, e.g. the Klimov-powered Ka-32A11BC, have been certified for commercial operations throughout the world, notably in Canada and Europe.

Kamov Ka-27 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dale Denton]

Well we could get Belarus to build us 80 Mi-17's, to replace the Griffons. That would substantial increase our lift capability and have a machine where we can get parts from multiple suppliers. Hell have them assembled in Canada for the Canadian job bit...

Going 'full CASR'.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Going 'full CASR'.

Never go full CASR....

 

[GK .Dundas]

But, as somebody pointed out, you can pack a bunch of little helicopters into a big plane and move them over long distances at a high rate of knots.

View attachment 67402

Looks as if you could get at least 6 OH-58 / CH-136 / Kiowa / Jet Rangers / ARH-70 into a C17. Each with 14 APKWS (2x 70mm).

Something's better than nothing.

I wonder how many AH 6 I's you could get on a CC 177 ....Never mind.
If you're going to the effort to bring some hurt down on some people. Why not go for the gold standard in light weight attack/scout helicopters.

 

[Sf2]

Belarus isn't anyone you want to do business with. They are Putin's little puppet - and a pariah in the West.
The Hip isn't exactly a real step up from the Griffon either.
Sure its bigger and can carry more IF it gets off the ground and stays airborne
None of the suppliers you would trust - and the safety record of them isn't exactly stellar -

- I flew in a few in Afghanistan and Iraq, and a Warsaw Pact type bird would never be my recommendation.
They are great for low vis work when you want a deniable bird - but safety and availability rates aren't what any NATO member would want from a UH.

We had no issues with fielding Mi17s in Afghanistan under "Canadian control".

 

[suffolkowner]

Whats left of CASR

Canadian American Strategic Review – DefenceMuse

Posts about Canadian American Strategic Review written by Steve Daly, CD

defencemuse.wordpress.com

The Mil-17 in Canadian use

RCAF Doesn't Like To Admit it flew Russian Mil-17-V5s

Canadian Armed Forces Dispatch is your one stop source for all news regarding the Canadian Armed Forces.

cafdispatch.blogspot.com

 

[Kirkhill]

I wonder how many AH 6 I's you could get on a CC 177 ....Never mind.
If you're going to the effort to bring some hurt down on some people. Why not go for the gold standard in light weight attack/scout helicopters.

Perhaps because "Boeing"? Not "Bell"?

Boeing doesn't seem to be having much success with Canadian contracts these days.

On the other hand Optionally Manned AH-6s seem to be a thing. How about Northrop Grumman's Bell 407 MQ-8C Firescout in optionally manned configuration?

Boeing AH-6 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Northrop Grumman MQ-8C Fire Scout - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Kirkhill]

Question: If a helicopter can drive itself does a helicopter need a pilot or can a passenger act as vehicle commander?

 

[KevinB]

We had no issues with fielding Mi17s in Afghanistan under "Canadian control".

Would you rather have Hooks or Hips?

Can you fly a Hip for a while - sure - but long run its going to cause you a slew more issues than a western bird - and parts etc aren't generally the same quality.

I don't think anyone used the Hip (outside of SOF for low vis) out of desire - the fact was that the CF doesn't have enough Rotary Wing assets to do everything that is needed at time.

 

[Sf2]

Um....yes?

 

[Good2Golf]

Sf2, I think KevinB’s point was more about potential green-fleet use, vice the well-controlled use by a black fleet. Unless I misread his intent.