CH-148 Cyclone Progress

[Lumber]

Not to be pedantic, but if we’re throwing away the MH CONOPs because we feel it can’t be met by our current helicopter or any logical replacement, shouldn’t we decide on what we want to do and have a new CONOPs before thinking about which helicopter?

That's... Not the Canadian way...

 

[Good2Golf]

Not to be pedantic, but if we’re throwing away the MH CONOPs because we feel it can’t be met by our current helicopter or any logical replacement, shouldn’t we decide on what we want to do and have a new CONOPs before thinking about which helicopter?

I didn’t figure there was any change needed for MH concept as that planned for MHP, an EH-101 or 60R would seem to still fit the CONOP of an MH operating from an FFGH/DDGH.

 

[Lumber]

I didn’t figure there was any change needed for MH concept as that planned for MHP, an EH-101 or 60R would seem to still fit the CONOP of an MH operating from an FFGH/DDGH.

Depends. If they are looking for OTH comms/TDL, then that could imply using them as low level scouts in ASUW vice a high-level scout providing a longer range (and much more obvious) radar picture. That talk of going with Romeos could also entail using them as a maritime strike platform (Hellfires) which would tie in with the new low-level scouting capability. All of this speaks to increasing the usefulness of the RCN MH in an ASUW role, but does nothing to enhance (or maintain) it's capabilities in the ASW role, for which it is already, effectively, the peak of capabilities in the world (other than no TDL...).

 

[Baz]

I didn’t figure there was any change needed for MH concept as that planned for MHP, an EH-101 or 60R would seem to still fit the CONOP of an MH operating from an FFGH/DDGH.

Except the MH CONOPs is not just an MH operating from an FFGH/DDGH. It’s an MH operating independently from an FFGH/DDGH.

So:

• the Cyclone, on paper, yes, in reality, ?
• a Merlin, yes
• a 60R, at a stretch, maybe
• a Lynx or any other small helicopter, no

Therefore, before we can talk about those last two, we have to revisit the CONOPs.

Or, we have to adopt whatever helicopter we buy CONOPs… and if that’s the case, we should adopt everything else. Which may be the right choice???

But make no mistake, a Lynx or 60R is not the same as a Merlin, or Cyclone (on paper).

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Psssst! Baz: we don't have FFGH's!

 

[Baz]

Psssst! Baz: we don't have FFGH's!

Psssst; I know. Iwas using the OPs terminology.

 

[KevinB]

Except the MH CONOPs is not just an MH operating from an FFGH/DDGH. It’s an MH operating independently from an FFGH/DDGH.

Since I doubt you mean they swim home if need be, can you explain ‘independently’ for those of us not familiar with the MH world.

 

[Baz]

Since I doubt you mean they swim home if need be, can you explain ‘independently’ for those of us not familiar with the MH world.

So, I was answering questions about deck ops on Facebook, and somebody called me an "Attention-W" (I had to look it up) and told me to get a life... but here goes.

Independantly, as discussed in the CONOPs, is the ability of the aircraft to make most tactical decisions itself, instead of relying on the warfare commander or ship. It includes the ability to take other platforms "under control" to prosecute. For the RN Sea King, that went all the way to the observer being a qualified "Freddie" ("shipborne" air controller) to do positive control.

So, for example, instead of the ASW controller saying "helo 1 dip here, helo 2 dip here, etc" they can just say "helo1, take helo 2 and prosecute your descretion."

Obviously, the lines blur, but that's the gist of it. And, it's no surprise the aircraft that can do it, Merlin and Cyclone, have a crew of four and a dedicated battle manager. It's an ACSO in the Cyclone and an RN Observer in the Merlin.

The question then becomes, with increasingly good electronic picture compilation and command and control, is it required for Canada?