CH-148 Cyclone Progress
- Thread starter Kirkhill
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Depends. If they are looking for OTH comms/TDL, then that could imply using them as low level scouts in ASUW vice a high-level scout providing a longer range (and much more obvious) radar picture. That talk of going with Romeos could also entail using them as a maritime strike platform (Hellfires) which would tie in with the new low-level scouting capability. All of this speaks to increasing the usefulness of the RCN MH in an ASUW role, but does nothing to enhance (or maintain) it's capabilities in the ASW role, for which it is already, effectively, the peak of capabilities in the world (other than no TDL...).I didn’t figure there was any change needed for MH concept as that planned for MHP, an EH-101 or 60R would seem to still fit the CONOP of an MH operating from an FFGH/DDGH.
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Except the MH CONOPs is not just an MH operating from an FFGH/DDGH. It’s an MH operating independently from an FFGH/DDGH.I didn’t figure there was any change needed for MH concept as that planned for MHP, an EH-101 or 60R would seem to still fit the CONOP of an MH operating from an FFGH/DDGH.
So:
- the Cyclone, on paper, yes, in reality, ?
- a Merlin, yes
- a 60R, at a stretch, maybe
- a Lynx or any other small helicopter, no
Therefore, before we can talk about those last two, we have to revisit the CONOPs.
Or, we have to adopt whatever helicopter we buy CONOPs… and if that’s the case, we should adopt everything else. Which may be the right choice???
But make no mistake, a Lynx or 60R is not the same as a Merlin, or Cyclone (on paper).
Oldgateboatdriver
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Psssst! Baz: we don't have FFGH's!
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Psssst; I know. Iwas using the OPs terminology.
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So, I was answering questions about deck ops on Facebook, and somebody called me an "Attention-W" (I had to look it up) and told me to get a life... but here goes.
Independantly, as discussed in the CONOPs, is the ability of the aircraft to make most tactical decisions itself, instead of relying on the warfare commander or ship. It includes the ability to take other platforms "under control" to prosecute. For the RN Sea King, that went all the way to the observer being a qualified "Freddie" ("shipborne" air controller) to do positive control.
So, for example, instead of the ASW controller saying "helo 1 dip here, helo 2 dip here, etc" they can just say "helo1, take helo 2 and prosecute your descretion."
Obviously, the lines blur, but that's the gist of it. And, it's no surprise the aircraft that can do it, Merlin and Cyclone, have a crew of four and a dedicated battle manager. It's an ACSO in the Cyclone and an RN Observer in the Merlin.
The question then becomes, with increasingly good electronic picture compilation and command and control, is it required for Canada?
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Yeah, tracking that 110%. Nothing close to Merlin, not even NH-90 (in whichever of its 17 different configurations). 60R is a compromise of some sort.
I was just trying to cover the bookies’ odds on whether the Rivers end up being designated a DDGH or an FFH with some SM2s…
KevinB
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Pretty sure it was announced as a DDG (with soft H)I was just trying to cover the bookies’ odds on whether the Rivers end up being designated a DDGH or an FFH with some SM2s…
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I recall at one point that the 'plan' for uplink/downlink from the CH-148 was briefed as a terminal located in the ADR, and the air crew would take a 'snapshot' of the RMP onto a hard drive, which they'd then bring with them into the helo....then they'd go fly, update the RMP as they were flying, and any updates they got would be downloaded from the helo after landing by sticking the drive back into the terminal to upload to the RMP that the ship was using.
Meaning that there was no Link for the helo at that time. (Bear in mind, this info is 10 years old plus, and therefore is subject to change with newer developments.)
Meaning that there was no Link for the helo at that time. (Bear in mind, this info is 10 years old plus, and therefore is subject to change with newer developments.)
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That was, and is, a Cyclone capability. It’s called MPAS (mission preparation and analysis service) and is installed in the ADR. There was an interface to CCS-330 but that has been removed. It’s not just for RMP. It was in addition to Link-11.
The Sea King had a much more modest RMP upload and download capability via OTH-Gold from/to GCCS. In the case of the Sea King, the entire computer was carried to/from the aircraft, not just the hard drive, and used as the ground support computer.
Maxman1
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It's getting harder to avoid that at this point.
But it'll work this time for sure.
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Cyclone replacement dilemma
EH101 helicopter that Liberals canceled and actively avoided or
American Sikorsky product no 2
EH101 helicopter that Liberals canceled and actively avoided or
American Sikorsky product no 2
KevinB
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Eryx ?
Honestly ever other program that has been awful (and there have been a bunch) have just had the requirements lowered continually until it passed (or in the case of LSVW watered down that no one cares if it fails again as it doesn’t matter a P or F because it will be a huge F regardless.
daftandbarmy
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Maxman1
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Possibly the only military to wear camouflage in the office and olive drab in the field.
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How about a completely different idea?
Since the S-92 is no longer supported, in favour of the S-92A, and the 148 is a different beast altogether (fly by wire…), why not “upgrade” the airframe to the S-92A.
“Move” the mission system and avionics over to the new airframe, and when possible even reuse it. Do the required upgrades concurrently: radar, sono processor, AIS, Link-16, TCDL, Satcom, FLIR, Mode 5,…
Programmatically, fund to a level that gets Sikorsky out of its hole, and would provide a robust spares pool. Also, find reservists (ex MH) to fill the training gaps.
Eases the transition, maybe more sellable, and makes the CONOPs, TTPs, and training stay relatively constant.
Since the S-92 is no longer supported, in favour of the S-92A, and the 148 is a different beast altogether (fly by wire…), why not “upgrade” the airframe to the S-92A.
“Move” the mission system and avionics over to the new airframe, and when possible even reuse it. Do the required upgrades concurrently: radar, sono processor, AIS, Link-16, TCDL, Satcom, FLIR, Mode 5,…
Programmatically, fund to a level that gets Sikorsky out of its hole, and would provide a robust spares pool. Also, find reservists (ex MH) to fill the training gaps.
Eases the transition, maybe more sellable, and makes the CONOPs, TTPs, and training stay relatively constant.
