Conservatives will Support Liberal Budget

[Infanteer]

Gotta love politics:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/17/harper-stronach050517.html

Tories will support budget, Harper says

Last Updated Tue, 17 May 2005 22:13:08 EDT
CBC News
OTTAWA - The Conservatives will vote in support of the federal budget, Tory Leader Stephen Harper announced hours after MP Belinda Stronach defected to the Liberals.
 
Conservative Leader Stephen Harper in Ottawa, Tuesday. 
The party will still try to topple the Liberals on a budget amendment that directs $4.6 billion to housing and the environment, Harper said on Tuesday night.

His abrupt reversal on the budget vote came after Stronach crossed the floor earlier in the day and joined Paul Martin's Liberal minority government.

The defection shifted the razor-thin margin of seats that the Conservatives and their ally, the Bloc Québécois, were counting on to oust the Liberals.

Both bills are scheduled for a parliamentary vote on Thursday.

Harper blames MP's defection on 'ambition'

Stronach's personal leadership ambitions, not any concern for the good of the country, led her to defect, Harper said earlier in the day.

Meeting with reporters less than an hour after Prime Minister Paul Martin announced Stronach was joining his cabinet, Harper acknowledged that losing the MP could foil his bid to bring down the Liberal government on Thursday.

"I could see this coming," Harper said, adding that he felt "a sense of relief" that Stronach had left before the beginning of a general election campaign and not during one.

"There's no grand principle involved in this decision, just ambition," Harper said.

He said he recently told his wife that he "thought it had become obvious to Belinda that her leadership ambitions would not be reached in this party regardless of whether or not we won the next election."

Harper added that as a result of expressing that belief to Stronach, "I expected to have problems."

But he said it is Stronach who will now have problems â “ when she faces the voters in her riding of Newmarket-Aurora.

"This will ultimately negatively affect Belinda Stronach's chances of being re-elected," he said.

Harper said Stronach had given no sign of disagreeing with her caucus colleagues on the Conservatives' decision to try to bring down the government this week.

And he said her decision does not affect his belief that defeating Martin's team is the right thing to do.

"The governing party is corrupt," he said, repeating an argument he has been making for weeks.

"It is in the process of ruining the nation's finances with the biggest vote-buying spree in Canadian history ... and it's doing tremendous damage to the cause of federalism in Quebec."

Harper said Stronach's fellow MPs "are feeling quite devastated, quite betrayed by this" â “ especially Peter MacKay, who has been romantically involved with Stronach for about six months.

"I think Peter's taken this pretty badly, as you can imagine."

The Conservative leader dismissed Stronach's suggestion that he is not sensitive to the needs of all parts of the country, singling out her home province of Ontario as a region he doesn't understand.

"Everyone knows that I was born in Toronto," he said. "I lived in Toronto for the first 19 years of my life, I still have relatives all across the province and I don't think that's the real issue here."

Reaction from political leaders to Stronach's defection:

Saskatchewan NDP Premier Lorne Calvert: "I believe Belinda Stronach has done the right thing. I believe she has done the right thing for Canada."


New Brunswick Conservative Premier Bernard Lord: "This is just another action, another moment, that breeds cynicism of electors."


Ontario Conservative Leader John Tory: "I can confirm for you that I will no longer be campaigning for Miss Stronach."


Ontario Conservative Bob Runciman: "She sort of defined herself as something of a dipstick, an attractive one, but still a dipstick, with what she's done here today. She is, at the end of the day, going to paint herself as something of a joke."

 

[Island Ryhno]

Ah yes, Belinda used all of her wiley cougar ways to suck the cubs in and pounces at the last minute. Arggh can our government be even more of a farce. On the case of the budget however, I'm glad they will support it, it means a lot to people out here in Newfoundland and may finally gives an opportunity to retain some of our steady outpouring of youth, skilled trades and whte collar people. 

 

[canadianblue]

To tell you all the truth, I kindof wish we had a Reform style party again. I know alot of people were attacking that party, but I believe they had lots of good ideas and could have done alot of good. All they had to do in my own opinion was start out as a nation party, and tone down some of the rethoric with regards to Quebec.

 

[The_Falcon]

Ah yes, Belinda used all of her wiley cougar ways to suck the cubs in and pounces at the last minute. Arggh can our government be even more of a farce. On the case of the budget however, I'm glad they will support it, it means a lot to people out here in Newfoundland and may finally gives an opportunity to retain some of our steady outpouring of youth, skilled trades and whte collar people.  

Your assuming the goverment survives past this fall.  When have the Liberals ever upheld the majority of their promises?  The Conservatives may vote for the budget, but as reported not the ammendment to the budget which may yet bring down the house, in which case it won't matter if the budget passed or not.

 

[Island Ryhno]

Yes, very wishful thinking on my part, however, if; lets say that ontario turns PC and Newfoundland stays pc a move to bring that budget and it's promises crashing down would presumably cause large problems with in party backlash. I don't think the conservatives, If they win, would win by much and as such would use everything possible to prop themselves up, including the liberal goodie budget. Again however, many things have to fall properly into place. Hoping, waiting & wishing.

 

[PuckChaser]

They are not going to support the entire budget. When it was released in Feburary, it was an adequate budget, and the Tories were not going to defeat it. However, since the truth about the corruption was released, the Tories used the budget as a catalyst for a non-confidence vote. They will abstain from voting on the first bill, the original budget, but will vote down the government with the second bill, the amendment that Martin bought the NDP vote with.

I'm not disappointed in the least, and I'm actually happy the original budget gets voted through. That means our funding increases get to stay, but the errant throwing of money to everyone with a vote gets quashed.

 

[Reccesoldier]

This is consistant with the Conservatives position so far. Remember they didn't try to topple the government over the budget before Jack Layton and Buzz Hargrove rewrote it while Paul Martin looked on salivating over an extra 19 votes in the HoC.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Yes, very wishful thinking on my part, however, if; lets say that ontario turns PC and Newfoundland stays pc a move to bring that budget and it's promises crashing down would presumably cause large problems with in party backlash. I don't think the conservatives, If they win, would win by much and as such would use everything possible to prop themselves up, including the liberal goodie budget. Again however, many things have to fall properly into place. Hoping, waiting & wishing.

I honestly do not believe Stephen Harper will win an election.  While the west gets caught up in things like integrity, the maritimes in equalization (and other federal handouts, excuse me: "reallocations of wealth programs"), Ontario in my opinion is just downright shallow and ignorant of the issues and is looking for someone cool and politically correct.  Ergo you get Paul Martin who is jovial, happy, healthy and backed by rockstar Bono ,against Stephen who unfortunately with his pale skin and demeanor has about as much charisma as wet wash cloth. 

Bottom Line:  It will take the succession of Peter McKay (or clone) for the CPC to win the next election and they will only win on Liberal-like policies, but with a higher standard of ethics.

Anything less, and regardless of Gomery, they will come in second place....

Just my opinion,


Matthew.    :crybaby:

 

[a_majoor]

I am amused at the people who are glad the budget will be supported because "it is good for us (pick your interest group)". Looking at the record since 1993, much less the last month or so, how many Liberal promises and commitments have EVER been carried out? The Alliance party once introduced a motion which was a "Red Book" election promise (with the exact wording, so no one could mistake it for anything else), but since the promise had to do with ethics, the Liberal Majorety of the day voted it down.....

This budget is a work of fiction rather on par with a comic or Harliquen romance, read it and toss it, it is utterly forgettable fluff with no basis in reality, and after the curent FY, NOT ONE of the spending comittments will ever come to pass.

 

[Island Ryhno]

As opposed to the wonderful PC government led by Brian Mulroney? The same PC government that won the west then forgot about them (moved the CF-18 maintenance contract to Quebec, what a suprise) who promised to raise spending on social programs in the atlantic provinces but in fact ended up cutting social programs. From 1985-1987 many of the PC cabinet members were accused of the same nonsense that's gone on in the Chretien government (political favors) Yes we even received the coveted GST from that PC party oh and there was the meech lake accord as well. I guess the point of this is...people are very eager to jump into bed with the conservatives right now, what we are forgetting is that it's the same tricks over and over just with a different clown this time. I believe the conservatives should be given the opportunity to rule, but we; Canada as a whole seems to have a very short hindsight. Hopefully the last 15 years or so will teach us to not tolerate corrupt government, give someone else a chance if it's not done right in four years out you go.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
From 1985-1987 many of the PC cabinet members were accused of the same nonsense

...again more fear-mongering among those who have thier hand-out right now..[ sorry, but shoe fitting, etc]

If you have proof, bring it.    I'm listening.

 

[Island Ryhno]

First there was Robert Coates, who stepped down as defence minister in 1985 after it was revealed that he had visited a strip club in West Germany while in that country on official business. Communications Minister Marcel Masse left over an alleged violation of the Canada Elections Act (he was later exonerated), followed closely by John Fraser.

In 1986, Minister of Regional Industrial Expansion Sinclair Stevens stepped down because of conflict of interest allegations related to a $2.6-million loan to a Stevens family company. André Bissonnette, the minister of state for transport, resigned in 1987 while the RCMP investigated his alleged involvement in land speculation. Roch La Salle, who served Mulroney in the public works, and supply and services portfolios, left cabinet the same year after being charged with demanding a bribe and accepting money from businesses looking for government favours. The charges were later dropped.

Conflict of interest allegations involving a personal loan felled Supply and Services Minister Michel Coté in 1988. Bernard Valcourt stepped down in 1989 after pleading guilty to an impaired driving offence. In 1990, current Quebec Premier Jean Charest had to leave his two posts as minister for fitness and amateur sport, and minister for youth after trying to talk to a judge about an ongoing case.

And, finally, in 1991, Housing Minister Alan Redway offered his resignation after being charged over joking about having a gun while boarding a flight at the Ottawa airport. (Not a cabinet minister but equally embarrassing to the Conservatives was Quebec MP Michel Gravel, who in 1986 was charged with 50 counts of fraud and influence peddling. He later pleaded guilty to 15 charges, paid a $50,000 fine and served four months in jail.

(Not a cabinet minister but equally embarrassing to the Conservatives was Quebec MP Michel Gravel, who in 1986 was charged with 50 counts of fraud and influence peddling.

Ah yes Bruce, enough proof? BTW I see that it's ok for you to flame someone on the board, how would this go over if I was accusing you of looking for a handout, same old shit isn't?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Hey, Ontario is trying to get a hand out right now, thats why you see Dalton and Harper chatting.
...only some of us don't fall apart at the mere mention of it.

Anyway, I think we " deja done dat to death " somewhere else, so in reply to your list up there I don't see ,exept for one["Michel Gravel","Not a cabinet minister"] any thing even remotely close to what we have heard, under oath, for the last few months. Being investigated/ accused is not a crime, at least not yet.

 

[Sheerin]

While the west gets caught up in things like integrity, the maritimes in equalization (and other federal handouts, excuse me: "reallocations of wealth programs"), Ontario in my opinion is just downright shallow and ignorant of the issues and is looking for someone cool and politically correct.  Ergo you get Paul Martin who is jovial, happy, healthy and backed by rockstar Bono ,against Stephen who unfortunately with his pale skin and demeanor has about as much charisma as wet wash cloth.  

*cough* excuse me?  The West is caught up in things like integrity?  The west that includes Alberta and Ralph Klein?  The same Ralph Klein who accosted a homeless person while drunk and told him to get a job?  The same man who plagiarized an essay about a year or so ago?  Yeah, he's all about integrity.

Please, do not spout these regional stereotypes.  

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
The same man who plagiarized an essay about a year or so ago?

...must have missed that, clue me in, please.

 

[Danjanou]

Sorry Ryhno but to this broke down old O31, being caught in a strip bar having some wobbly pops with the soldiers who are supposed to represent as part of your job  does not equate with plain brown envelopes stuffed with cash and some of the other sordid details coming out of Gomery these days. Half of the stuff there reads like season seven of the Sopranos and I'm sure the HBO writers are making notes. 8)

CDn Blackshirt, last I heard Bono was ticked at good ole Mr Dithers and handing out his private number to his fans so they could call and complain. What was the reason again? Oh yeah he's reneged and dithered on promises re aid in Africa. Why does that sound familiar.  :

 

[George Wallace]

And another thing.....they had the moral fortitude to step down from their Posts while under investigation.  Don't you find it morally and unethically shameful that the Liberals haven't done the same when they have been accused of wrong doing?

 

[canadianblue]

*cough* excuse me?  The West is caught up in things like integrity?  The west that includes Alberta and Ralph Klein?  The same Ralph Klein who accosted a homeless person while drunk and told him to get a job?  The same man who plagiarized an essay about a year or so ago?  Yeah, he's all about integrity.

Did he steal Albertan's money, no, did he lie to Albertan's about what he did, no he did not. The Liberals on the other hand have done much worse, as for the integrity of the PC's, if they ever went down that road, you can be assured that Albertan's would vote in a landslide for a new political party.

I'd have to agree that in some ways the west in much more culturally different then the rest of the country.

 

[Sheerin]

Yeah, about a year or so ago Klein made available an essay he wrote for a communications course he was taking from Athabaskan university.  It was found that approximately 58.7% of the essay was taken verbatim from various websites. 

"To give you an example where there is ambiguity, in several places here there is, after a large stretch of verbatim material from another website, there is a citation that just simply says 'Internet.' But I, as a reader, would not be able to determine where on the Internet that came from," Heth said. "What I see is a lot of material that was taken from other sources and the significant part of it was the length of the material that comes directly from another source."

Heth says professors require more information about sources from students so that the credibility of the sources can be scrutinized.

On the last page of the report, the premier lists his sources, including 10 websites. Word for word passages from the essay are found on those sites â “ and a count found 58.7 per cent of the lines in the essay are the same as those on the websites listed.

Of course, i don't know if it was malicious plagiarism or if he was just being lazy... regardless, what he did was wrong and I have to wonder if his position allowed him to get away with it? 

The issue dates back to a debate in the legislature last week over public auto insurance. The opposition was pressing Klein on whether he would consider it, when he brought up the 1973 military coup in Chile.

Klein said Pinochet "was forced, I would say, to mount a coup." The comment about the dictator, who arrested and tortured thousands of his countrymen, "disappearing" many, led to a protest by the province's Chilean community.

This week, to clarify his remarks, Klein cited the essay he'd written, and said his only point was that "socialism can often lead to unintended and negative repercussions in societies."

http://edmonton.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=ed_klein20040513

 

[Sheerin]

well first of all, it wasn't all liberals who stole the money.  hell it hasn't even been pr oven that martin was involved in it.

Secondly, whats with this Western Holier Than Thou attitude?