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In light of proposed decompression training for the current op Athena, whats the general opinion on the effectivness of decompression training or is it better to get home that much earlier.
Decompression yes/no
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Ubique...didn't have the benefit on Roto 0, but most of my friends on Apollo state the benefits...I would offer that given the circumstances and climate...it would be of benefit as leave doesn't happen on Athena it is rolled into the HLTA...food for thought.
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While the alcohol fueled debauchery of Guam was appreciated following Op Apollo, I personally would have preferred to have returned home immediately after leaving theatre. Decompression for us was filled with CF social workers and padres advising us to clean up our language and stop picking our noses. Also, when you are ordered to partake in a "forced fun" activity, the potential exists for it to cease being considered fun. I believe the required re-integration training would be best conducted in theatre and allow the troops to be re-united with their loved ones as quickly as possible.
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Having been on the same tour as "PPCLI MCpl", I tend to lean the other way. I personally believe that the 5-day "decompression" period in a "third location" (eg. Guam) was both prudent and necessary. Notwithstanding any good intentions to the contrary, there is no way that soldiers can adequately relax and readjust to civilian life in the very same threat environment that they have been serving in. Using OP APOLLO as an example, how could we have "decompressed" in 55C heat, eating the same combat rations, sleeping in the same crew tents, and on "dry" status in Kandahar? It simply wouldn't have happened. At least not with the same degree of effectiveness that Guam offered as a "waypoint" on the road to relative normalcy....
3 PPCLI BG's 5-day lay-over in Guam offered a host of tangible and intangible benefits that are easily overlooked. First and foremost, it provided members of the battlegroup an opportunity to become reacquainted with everything from flush toilets to restaurants and shopping in a very North American environment prior to being foisted upon their loved ones. Secondary, is the fact that the lay-over gave most folks (myself included) a chance to indulge in a tremendous post-tour piss-up, and "blow-off" of built up stress, the likes of which would have undoubtedly alarmed my wife and children. All in a secure and surprisingly supportive civilian atmosphere. The government and citizens of Guam were 110% behind the BG for what we'd been doing during the previous 6 months, and they repeatedly demonstrated it. Then there were the little things, like allowing your body to adjust to the need to process real food again - a 36 to 48 hour process which would have been decidedly unpleasant for any family without an extremely well-ventilated bathroom.
Yes, there were social workers and padres floating around, and mandatory reuinification/"back to reality" briefings to attend. Firm timings, the rigid morning briefing schedule, mandated tours and social activities, etc, were a necessary evil in my humble view. The schedule was designed to inculcate members of the battlegroup back into a fixed daily routine after 6 months of patrols and other shift-related work on a 24/7 basis. The schedule quite deliberately started out rigid, and was then relaxed somewhat over the course of the 5 day reintegration program to foster individual responsibility for one's own actions/decisions after 6 months of living in a rather directive bubble.
Above and beyond the structured aspects of the program (which were not onerous), there were many valuable opportunities for members of the BG to unwind and relax in a non-threatening environment with their peers who had shared the same experiences. There were good reasons for placing sections, platoons and companies in the same hotels (and often on the same floor). Two out of the 5 nights that I was in Guam, I was woken up at 3 or 4 AM by Senior NCOs knocking on my hotel room door after last call. Both times, those NCOs wanted to head down to the beach and "shoot the crap" with me over a 6-pack. Soldiers who need to do that type of thing to get their "head-space and timing" sorted out before going home, cannot do so if they leave the theatre of operations one day and are back with their sympathetic but clueless families the next. At the end of the day, even if we overlook the innumerable benefits of a post-mission relaxation period in a controlled, safe, and hospitable environment with your buddies, the fundamental question remains. Where would you rather endure those mandatory briefings - in the heat and dust of Kandahar, or in the air-conditioned comfort of a hotel ballroom in some tropical paradise - knowing that when the briefing is over you can hit any number of restaurants and night clubs for a relaxing evening out? I certainly know which option I would prefer....
The reactions of Combat Support Company were quite illustrative of the majority opinion. When I first pitched the "3rd-location decompression" plan to the company during one of my OC's hours, I would conservatively estimate that upwards of 80% of the company were adamantly opposed to the idea. Like "PPCLI MCpl", most just wanted to get home ASAP at that particular point. However, when I took an informal poll as we were mustering in the hotel for the flight home at the end of the 5 days in Guam, the reactions were almost entirely opposite. I would estimate that at least 95% of the soldiers I spoke to told me flat-out that the time in Guam had been both beneficial and NECESSARY in terms of preparing them for return to Canada and their families. Such comments simply reinforced my own belief that the "decompression" period had been well worthwhile, even if it meant another 5 days away from our families. Quite frankly, I wasn't ready to see my family when I left Kandahar. I WAS ready to see them when I left Guam. In my view, the 5 day program had been just about perfect....
To me, the fundamental question is what type of tour necessitates a "decompression" period in a third location? Personally, I believe that it should not be an automatic "gimme" for every single overseas deployment. Otherwise, we risk creating that same sense of "misplaced entitlement" that has made HLTA and grotesquely comfortable base camps some sort of sacrosanct "right" in the eyes of many of our soldiers (and their leadership). For example, in the case of our uneventful Bosnia deployments (particularly during the latter years) a formal decompression lay-over would have been quite pointless and unnecessary. The "go/no-go" decision needs to be based on professional judgement, taking into account each individual tour's physical and mental hardships, significant incidents (or lack thereof), etc. I am loathe to suggest where we ought to draw the line, and will leave that to the senior leadership with appropriate "lab-coat" input. All I know is that for the vast majority of 3 PPCLI BG, the 5-day program in Guam was a "good thing" following our 6 months in Afghanistan......
Just my personal perspective, backed up by overwhelmingly positive feedback from the soldiers of 3 PPCLI Cbt Sp Coy.....
3 PPCLI BG's 5-day lay-over in Guam offered a host of tangible and intangible benefits that are easily overlooked. First and foremost, it provided members of the battlegroup an opportunity to become reacquainted with everything from flush toilets to restaurants and shopping in a very North American environment prior to being foisted upon their loved ones. Secondary, is the fact that the lay-over gave most folks (myself included) a chance to indulge in a tremendous post-tour piss-up, and "blow-off" of built up stress, the likes of which would have undoubtedly alarmed my wife and children. All in a secure and surprisingly supportive civilian atmosphere. The government and citizens of Guam were 110% behind the BG for what we'd been doing during the previous 6 months, and they repeatedly demonstrated it. Then there were the little things, like allowing your body to adjust to the need to process real food again - a 36 to 48 hour process which would have been decidedly unpleasant for any family without an extremely well-ventilated bathroom.
Yes, there were social workers and padres floating around, and mandatory reuinification/"back to reality" briefings to attend. Firm timings, the rigid morning briefing schedule, mandated tours and social activities, etc, were a necessary evil in my humble view. The schedule was designed to inculcate members of the battlegroup back into a fixed daily routine after 6 months of patrols and other shift-related work on a 24/7 basis. The schedule quite deliberately started out rigid, and was then relaxed somewhat over the course of the 5 day reintegration program to foster individual responsibility for one's own actions/decisions after 6 months of living in a rather directive bubble.
Above and beyond the structured aspects of the program (which were not onerous), there were many valuable opportunities for members of the BG to unwind and relax in a non-threatening environment with their peers who had shared the same experiences. There were good reasons for placing sections, platoons and companies in the same hotels (and often on the same floor). Two out of the 5 nights that I was in Guam, I was woken up at 3 or 4 AM by Senior NCOs knocking on my hotel room door after last call. Both times, those NCOs wanted to head down to the beach and "shoot the crap" with me over a 6-pack. Soldiers who need to do that type of thing to get their "head-space and timing" sorted out before going home, cannot do so if they leave the theatre of operations one day and are back with their sympathetic but clueless families the next. At the end of the day, even if we overlook the innumerable benefits of a post-mission relaxation period in a controlled, safe, and hospitable environment with your buddies, the fundamental question remains. Where would you rather endure those mandatory briefings - in the heat and dust of Kandahar, or in the air-conditioned comfort of a hotel ballroom in some tropical paradise - knowing that when the briefing is over you can hit any number of restaurants and night clubs for a relaxing evening out? I certainly know which option I would prefer....
The reactions of Combat Support Company were quite illustrative of the majority opinion. When I first pitched the "3rd-location decompression" plan to the company during one of my OC's hours, I would conservatively estimate that upwards of 80% of the company were adamantly opposed to the idea. Like "PPCLI MCpl", most just wanted to get home ASAP at that particular point. However, when I took an informal poll as we were mustering in the hotel for the flight home at the end of the 5 days in Guam, the reactions were almost entirely opposite. I would estimate that at least 95% of the soldiers I spoke to told me flat-out that the time in Guam had been both beneficial and NECESSARY in terms of preparing them for return to Canada and their families. Such comments simply reinforced my own belief that the "decompression" period had been well worthwhile, even if it meant another 5 days away from our families. Quite frankly, I wasn't ready to see my family when I left Kandahar. I WAS ready to see them when I left Guam. In my view, the 5 day program had been just about perfect....
To me, the fundamental question is what type of tour necessitates a "decompression" period in a third location? Personally, I believe that it should not be an automatic "gimme" for every single overseas deployment. Otherwise, we risk creating that same sense of "misplaced entitlement" that has made HLTA and grotesquely comfortable base camps some sort of sacrosanct "right" in the eyes of many of our soldiers (and their leadership). For example, in the case of our uneventful Bosnia deployments (particularly during the latter years) a formal decompression lay-over would have been quite pointless and unnecessary. The "go/no-go" decision needs to be based on professional judgement, taking into account each individual tour's physical and mental hardships, significant incidents (or lack thereof), etc. I am loathe to suggest where we ought to draw the line, and will leave that to the senior leadership with appropriate "lab-coat" input. All I know is that for the vast majority of 3 PPCLI BG, the 5-day program in Guam was a "good thing" following our 6 months in Afghanistan......
Just my personal perspective, backed up by overwhelmingly positive feedback from the soldiers of 3 PPCLI Cbt Sp Coy.....
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Mark C hits it right on the head with his post, I did Roto 0 and we did not get the second location re-intergration period, what we got was 3 days having to report to work to "Dag" before we could start on our 14 days of leave(yes that is 14 days total!) I'll tell you I was not ready to come back to a normal life of peace and security, regardless of what guys will say it is not easy to go from one day going to sleep wondering if tonight is the night that the rockets hits the camp, then the next night going to bed next to your wife who though loves you dearly can't understand and sooner or later gets annoyed that every movement by her in the bed wakes you up in star not to mention the noise's that would wake you with a shot of panic.
In some tours case the time taken to properly adjust to the new environment is key to a happy reunion with your loved ones, had I be given the opportunity to relax and blow off steam for 3-5 days with my buddies in a second location perhaps I wouldn't have done it here with my friends and section mates therefore eliminating all the "you don't spend time at home with me, and why are you drinking so much" fights that I had the first 2 or so weeks I was home.
In the yes yeah I got my self sorted out but it would have been quicker and allot less hard on my relationships had I been given the time to decompress somewhere else.
Just my 2cents though
In some tours case the time taken to properly adjust to the new environment is key to a happy reunion with your loved ones, had I be given the opportunity to relax and blow off steam for 3-5 days with my buddies in a second location perhaps I wouldn't have done it here with my friends and section mates therefore eliminating all the "you don't spend time at home with me, and why are you drinking so much" fights that I had the first 2 or so weeks I was home.
In the yes yeah I got my self sorted out but it would have been quicker and allot less hard on my relationships had I been given the time to decompress somewhere else.
Just my 2cents though
The biggest hurdle on the road to mental well-being always seems to be denial. I would also add that the op tempo even increases during the period of handover which further exacerbates the problem of re-integration training in theater prior to re-deployment. I was genuinely concerned about cutting my troops loose in small groups without decompression after losing three of the boys on tour. I told the troops to stay in touch with each other on leave and form a support net with each other, only one who has 'walked a mile in your shoes' will understand the issues you are trying to resolve. It would have felt a lot better had I been given the opportunity to hang out and shoot the shit with those that needed to get things off their chest.
Sorry, but I agree wholeheartedly with Mark on this one...........
The troops shouldn't even have an option. If they don't need the time 'away from it all', what are they losing? A couple more days? So what.........
Sorry, but I agree wholeheartedly with Mark on this one...........
The troops shouldn't even have an option. If they don't need the time 'away from it all', what are they losing? A couple more days? So what.........
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I've read that "Decompression" came out as a direct result of many PTSD cases in Vietnam; guys would literally be in a firefight in the jungle one day and be walking through the Airport 24 hours later. Tucking your family in bed and going to sleep isn't conducive when you were doing a night ambush or stand-to's the night before.
As opposed to Vietnam, guys coming over from WWII had a few weeks in the boat together; this was their "decompression". The soldiers got to blow off some steam, share their stories, and basically relax away from an operational environment. This was important as it allowed all involved to communalize any of the experiences of the war (death and gore, killing a fellow human being, any other psychological stress), leading to acceptance and a dissipation of any guilt. All and all, from a health and welfare standpoint, the decompression for tours returning from strenuous operations is a good application of "lessons learned".
On a related note both the bus ride back and the parade the 3 PPCLI BG received was a very good gesture as well - again with the principal of communalization of what the soldiers did (implicit or explicit). I couldn't imagine being a guy coming back from a year in Vietnam and having shit thrown on me in the airport and everyone treating you like a pariah - its no wonder that cases of psychological casualties from that war are high.
Read Odysseus In America: Combat Trauma and the Trials of Homecoming by Dr. Jonathan Shay.
As opposed to Vietnam, guys coming over from WWII had a few weeks in the boat together; this was their "decompression". The soldiers got to blow off some steam, share their stories, and basically relax away from an operational environment. This was important as it allowed all involved to communalize any of the experiences of the war (death and gore, killing a fellow human being, any other psychological stress), leading to acceptance and a dissipation of any guilt. All and all, from a health and welfare standpoint, the decompression for tours returning from strenuous operations is a good application of "lessons learned".
On a related note both the bus ride back and the parade the 3 PPCLI BG received was a very good gesture as well - again with the principal of communalization of what the soldiers did (implicit or explicit). I couldn't imagine being a guy coming back from a year in Vietnam and having shit thrown on me in the airport and everyone treating you like a pariah - its no wonder that cases of psychological casualties from that war are high.
Read Odysseus In America: Combat Trauma and the Trials of Homecoming by Dr. Jonathan Shay.
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I'm a supporter of decompression time. I have been to the Gulf three times (1990, 2000 and 2002). Twice, I sailed back (about a 6 week transit with great port visits) and once I flew home (28 hours in a clapped-out NationAir 747 with the worst catered food, barely functioning air conditioning and half the heads leaking in to the cabin). I much prefer the sailing home. The ship got back onto a more "normal" routine, I got to blow off steam in Australia, New Zealand and Malaysia and I had time to put things into perspective.
The time I flew home, I found it extremely disorienting. I just ended up drinking alone, watching alot of TV news and missing my friends during my leave.
Cheers.
The time I flew home, I found it extremely disorienting. I just ended up drinking alone, watching alot of TV news and missing my friends during my leave.
Cheers.
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I agree with SeaKing Taco, I have flown home early from deployments and it sucked but a transit home with port visits really helped and was perferable.
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VERY interesting that the Maritime Air guys make a point of mentioning their post-tour ship-borne "transit time" as being beneficial to their psychological well-being. This was PRECISELY the reason that LCol Pat Stogran pushed so hard for a "decompression" phase for 3 PPCLI BG.
When Col Stogran arrived in K'har ahead of the Battlegroup, 187th BCT (TF Rakkasan) of the 101st Airborne Division had not yet arrived. The guys holding the fort were US Marines. As Col Stogran related to me, he asked the Marines about the extent to which they had to deal with PTSD, and how they did so. And the answer was, that the USMC had comparatively few cases of PTSD overall. Those that they did suffer, were generally handled "in-house". The fundamental enabler for the USMC's amazingly low incidence of PTSD was the fact that when USMC units were done doing the business on land, they mounted back up on their ships and spent several months sailing home - with several "shore leaves" enroute. As a function of sailing home and pissing it up together after the land battle, the Marines were usually able to sort themselves ou. As a result, they encountered comparatively few problems once they touched home ground in North America. Does this by any chance make sense or sound familiar?
The "lessons learned" that those USMC soldiers and officers imparted to Col Pat Stogran were the direct impetus for 3 PPCLI BG's request for a 3rd location "decompression". And despite what the nay-sayers may think, it was a very, VERY necessary and beneficial experience.
'Nough said.
When Col Stogran arrived in K'har ahead of the Battlegroup, 187th BCT (TF Rakkasan) of the 101st Airborne Division had not yet arrived. The guys holding the fort were US Marines. As Col Stogran related to me, he asked the Marines about the extent to which they had to deal with PTSD, and how they did so. And the answer was, that the USMC had comparatively few cases of PTSD overall. Those that they did suffer, were generally handled "in-house". The fundamental enabler for the USMC's amazingly low incidence of PTSD was the fact that when USMC units were done doing the business on land, they mounted back up on their ships and spent several months sailing home - with several "shore leaves" enroute. As a function of sailing home and pissing it up together after the land battle, the Marines were usually able to sort themselves ou. As a result, they encountered comparatively few problems once they touched home ground in North America. Does this by any chance make sense or sound familiar?
The "lessons learned" that those USMC soldiers and officers imparted to Col Pat Stogran were the direct impetus for 3 PPCLI BG's request for a 3rd location "decompression". And despite what the nay-sayers may think, it was a very, VERY necessary and beneficial experience.
'Nough said.
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A Brit buddy of mine mentioned something on the same lines. After the Falklands a good number of the troops were flown home straight away. The number of domestic incidents was significantly higher than even NI deployments. The trouble was identifed as a lack of decompression (troops that returned home by ship had fewer problems). In fine British Army fashion they instituted a "decompression" of 7-14 days of normal garrison routine before leave could be taken. It worked to a certain extent.
Acorn
Acorn
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In reviewing my previous post, I realized that I neglected to mention a major enabler for 3 PPCLI BG's success with our "decompression" programme in Guam. Namely, PSP. Yes, there are those (myself included) who question the value of those folks. But I am here to tell you that they truly went "above and beyond" in supporting us while we were going through the "decompression" period. What blew me away was (according to my company's PSP representative), the fact that they had volunteered and been hand-selected to play the role of "decompression tour guide:".
I have to tell you that the fellow who looked after my company in Guam was simply oustanding in every single regard. He knew when to be there to make things happen for the troops (tours, scuba-diving, etc), but he also knew to sum up and lurk in the background. This guy (I really wish I could remember his name) was simply outstandiing in terms of support. And even better, he was tapped into a very sophisiticated network of PSP types supporting the overall "decompression" program. He never pushed anything, but he was there (like a professional tour guide) to enable whatever it is that the troops wanted to do.
I spoke above about my own role in shooting the crap with a few of the NCOs within Combat Support Company What I failed to mention was the role that my company's assigned PSP rep played in providing the very same care and service to me. He came to my hotel room on the first night that I arrived in Guam to discuss the R&R plan for the troops. We sorted that out as a first priority, but let's face it - after being "dry" for as long as I could remember, I was ready for more than a few "wobbly pops". I was also looking to dump a whole bunch of "senior leadership" CRAP on the first audience that would listen. My company's PSP rep didn't have a clue about what I was saying in my hotel room that night, BUT he sat there and listened and nodded his head at all the right parts while I slowly drank myself into a coma. He didn't bat an eye, and he didn't condemn nor condescend. What he did, was let me "purge", in much the same way that I was later able to provide a non-judgemental sounding-board for some of my NCO's on the beach at zero-dark-thirty.....
We all see the PSP types running the base gym on a dailiy basis, and we wonder about their validity. Well, in the case of the hand-selected PSP types who ran the 3 PPCLI "Decompression" lay-over in Guam, I can tell you that they were frigging magic. I for one, owe the fellow who supported Cbt Sp Coy a hearty "thanks" for giving me an incredibly indulgent and supportive sounding board that I would have otherwise lacked.
Some more food for thought....
I have to tell you that the fellow who looked after my company in Guam was simply oustanding in every single regard. He knew when to be there to make things happen for the troops (tours, scuba-diving, etc), but he also knew to sum up and lurk in the background. This guy (I really wish I could remember his name) was simply outstandiing in terms of support. And even better, he was tapped into a very sophisiticated network of PSP types supporting the overall "decompression" program. He never pushed anything, but he was there (like a professional tour guide) to enable whatever it is that the troops wanted to do.
I spoke above about my own role in shooting the crap with a few of the NCOs within Combat Support Company What I failed to mention was the role that my company's assigned PSP rep played in providing the very same care and service to me. He came to my hotel room on the first night that I arrived in Guam to discuss the R&R plan for the troops. We sorted that out as a first priority, but let's face it - after being "dry" for as long as I could remember, I was ready for more than a few "wobbly pops". I was also looking to dump a whole bunch of "senior leadership" CRAP on the first audience that would listen. My company's PSP rep didn't have a clue about what I was saying in my hotel room that night, BUT he sat there and listened and nodded his head at all the right parts while I slowly drank myself into a coma. He didn't bat an eye, and he didn't condemn nor condescend. What he did, was let me "purge", in much the same way that I was later able to provide a non-judgemental sounding-board for some of my NCO's on the beach at zero-dark-thirty.....
We all see the PSP types running the base gym on a dailiy basis, and we wonder about their validity. Well, in the case of the hand-selected PSP types who ran the 3 PPCLI "Decompression" lay-over in Guam, I can tell you that they were frigging magic. I for one, owe the fellow who supported Cbt Sp Coy a hearty "thanks" for giving me an incredibly indulgent and supportive sounding board that I would have otherwise lacked.
Some more food for thought....
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I think we have Mission/Men/Myself out of whack here...
Personally I'd scrap the HLTA and, possibly R&Rs on a case by case basis, for all Rotos and give them a decompression period. Money currently spent on the HLTA and R&Rs would fund the decompression and still have $$ left over due to economies of scale.
The HLTA provides more disadvantages than it's worth IMHO. The effect on the family (for those of us with them) of having Dad or Mom come home for 2 weeks, effectively reintegrate, then suddenly pack up and leave for another 2-3-4 months always makes me wonder if you should just head to a third location on your own. For the CF, we need to factor in a certain amount of buffer in the positions to make sure that when people are away for the HLTA there are still enough people on the ground to do the job effectively increasing the Op Tempo for all due to the extra 15-20% we have to deploy. There's always fighting or dissatisfaction about when the blocks are allotted (everyone wants to go in Jul/Aug or at Christmas or Easter) and quite often there is a noticeable drop in performance and alertness before and after the HLTA as the member anticipates it, then readjusts back into the routine, not to mention any reassignment of tasks which must be done when the member is gone which increases the work load of those still in theatre.
Figure out the number required to do the Mission, deploy them for 6 hard charging months with the knowledge that they are there for the full 6 months, bring them out to a 3rd location to wind down and have a blow out, then send them home to re-integrate with their families. Benefit of this is there will be no confusion about what to do with the reservists and individual augmentees. My experience has been these guys have been dealt with piecemeal depending on if they are BG, NSE or NCE. Some are allowed to go directly to their unit, some are brought back to the mounting base where the question that arises is how do you re-integrate them into unit routine before leave when it's not their unit...and some just seem to disappear. Not to mention that, as Mark pointed out, you have a captive audience for any briefings/debriefings you need to do.
Anyone on here deployed on a small mission or know how these issues are handled for Op Crocodile or Sculpture etc?
Personally I'd scrap the HLTA and, possibly R&Rs on a case by case basis, for all Rotos and give them a decompression period. Money currently spent on the HLTA and R&Rs would fund the decompression and still have $$ left over due to economies of scale.
The HLTA provides more disadvantages than it's worth IMHO. The effect on the family (for those of us with them) of having Dad or Mom come home for 2 weeks, effectively reintegrate, then suddenly pack up and leave for another 2-3-4 months always makes me wonder if you should just head to a third location on your own. For the CF, we need to factor in a certain amount of buffer in the positions to make sure that when people are away for the HLTA there are still enough people on the ground to do the job effectively increasing the Op Tempo for all due to the extra 15-20% we have to deploy. There's always fighting or dissatisfaction about when the blocks are allotted (everyone wants to go in Jul/Aug or at Christmas or Easter) and quite often there is a noticeable drop in performance and alertness before and after the HLTA as the member anticipates it, then readjusts back into the routine, not to mention any reassignment of tasks which must be done when the member is gone which increases the work load of those still in theatre.
Figure out the number required to do the Mission, deploy them for 6 hard charging months with the knowledge that they are there for the full 6 months, bring them out to a 3rd location to wind down and have a blow out, then send them home to re-integrate with their families. Benefit of this is there will be no confusion about what to do with the reservists and individual augmentees. My experience has been these guys have been dealt with piecemeal depending on if they are BG, NSE or NCE. Some are allowed to go directly to their unit, some are brought back to the mounting base where the question that arises is how do you re-integrate them into unit routine before leave when it's not their unit...and some just seem to disappear. Not to mention that, as Mark pointed out, you have a captive audience for any briefings/debriefings you need to do.
Anyone on here deployed on a small mission or know how these issues are handled for Op Crocodile or Sculpture etc?
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I wouldn't for the simple reason being away for 6-9 months at a time and you have to wait for some down time when your mission is over? You will burn your personnel out faster and the releases would fly.
devil39
Sr. Member
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My opinion of the Apollo decompression was that it was extremely well worthwhile, and I would recommend it again. I noticed a difference in troops and NCOs, between arrival and departure. And I was even more acutely aware of the difference in myself between arrival and departure, in terms of attitude, patience, tolerance for minor irritations of normal day to day life, etc. The personal feedback received from independent observers, PSP and military support staff who were present support this observation. I firmly believe that my personal reintegration with my family would have been much more difficult without decompression.
That being said, I can understand some of the disagreement expressed in this thread. I would be interested to see if the perception of the value of reintegration/decompression is skewed by rank held and/or responsibility of position. Not that troops have an easier time in theatre or on operations, in many cases their lot in life is more difficult. But the stresses are different at different rank levels I believe.
In my personal case, a significant stressor was the constant self evaluation of tactical plans, the constant "what iffing" leading up to operations, the concern to ensure that all of the bases were covered in tactical planning and training. This is due to an overall concern for the well being of the troops under command, and the knowledge that your decisions and planning may have life or death consequences. Add to that the constant requirement for compromises (reality intruding) between the ideal solution and the achievable solution in terms of resources, manpower, lift, terrain, equipment, sustainment, pers loads, training time available, etc.
There is a fairly significant adjustment to make between living in a gravel parking lot in a 4 man tent, eating MRE/IMPs (good) or lining up to eat T-Rats (bad), in a climate that most closely resembles living inside of a giant hair dryer in my opinion, and living in the modern western world.
I have nothing to base my opinion of the value of APOLLO decompression on than my personal experience and personal opinion. My experience and opinion is that we saved ourselves many problems upon return by taking a couple of days in Guam to re-adjust to the real world.
That being said, I can understand some of the disagreement expressed in this thread. I would be interested to see if the perception of the value of reintegration/decompression is skewed by rank held and/or responsibility of position. Not that troops have an easier time in theatre or on operations, in many cases their lot in life is more difficult. But the stresses are different at different rank levels I believe.
In my personal case, a significant stressor was the constant self evaluation of tactical plans, the constant "what iffing" leading up to operations, the concern to ensure that all of the bases were covered in tactical planning and training. This is due to an overall concern for the well being of the troops under command, and the knowledge that your decisions and planning may have life or death consequences. Add to that the constant requirement for compromises (reality intruding) between the ideal solution and the achievable solution in terms of resources, manpower, lift, terrain, equipment, sustainment, pers loads, training time available, etc.
There is a fairly significant adjustment to make between living in a gravel parking lot in a 4 man tent, eating MRE/IMPs (good) or lining up to eat T-Rats (bad), in a climate that most closely resembles living inside of a giant hair dryer in my opinion, and living in the modern western world.
I have nothing to base my opinion of the value of APOLLO decompression on than my personal experience and personal opinion. My experience and opinion is that we saved ourselves many problems upon return by taking a couple of days in Guam to re-adjust to the real world.
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excoelis said:
Absolutely! It's so ironic, but a number of folks experiencing problems now are the very same ones who disdained any sort of readjustment period back in Petawawa with ATHENA Roto 0 - they were in such a hurry to rush home ...
devil39 said:
To which I'd add that from my own personal experience I strongly suspect that there's probably a much better way of returning home rather than curling up in a ball and crying for a week. But, what do I know ... ?
(and now I'm going to shut up before I dig myself in any deeper ...)
TangoTwoBravo
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This is an excellent question and has raised some good points. I deployed on ATHENA Roto 0 and I admit that I was one of the people thinking "I do not want to spend another week somewhere in "the middle" on the way home." That being said I can see the benefits of having a stayover somewhere to unwind. I had two "homecomings" in relatively close succession. I had the second last leave block, so I came home after roughly 4.5 months in theatre, and was only back on the ground for a month afterwards. It takes roughly three days to get home, and that in itself was a form of "decompression." The gradual process of turning in weapons and body armour and the many phases of the trip home meant that I was not in Afghanistan one minute and Canada the next. The six hour layover in the Frankfurt airport was a particuarily good go. Our little leave block pretty much whooped it up at one of the airport bars before pulling it together enough to get on the plane. When I got home my wife noticed that I was more "aware" than normal when we were out and about, but other than that the only real issue was jet lag (fell asleep at the dinner table). I guess that the cost/benefits of HLTA is a whole other issue. The UK Coy had three month tours with no breaks etc. Maybe that is the way to go?
Decompression stops can certainly be a good thing, but I think that some problems may only manifest themselves several months later. My grandfathers had violent nightmares after WWII and they both had long boat rides home. I think that deploying "formed units/sub-units" on operations and keeping them together for a few months after can also help prevent or minimize negative post-tour effects. Happy-hours with people I had served with was a form of gradual decompression. Perhaps organized and funded "reunions" roughly three months after a deployment would also help? In addition, I beleive that the attitude of the nation plays a big part. My impression was that Canada actually cared about the mission and was supportive of us. Friends and family were interested in what had happened and universally supportive. I hope that this continues and I wish our deployed troops the best!
Cheers,
Decompression stops can certainly be a good thing, but I think that some problems may only manifest themselves several months later. My grandfathers had violent nightmares after WWII and they both had long boat rides home. I think that deploying "formed units/sub-units" on operations and keeping them together for a few months after can also help prevent or minimize negative post-tour effects. Happy-hours with people I had served with was a form of gradual decompression. Perhaps organized and funded "reunions" roughly three months after a deployment would also help? In addition, I beleive that the attitude of the nation plays a big part. My impression was that Canada actually cared about the mission and was supportive of us. Friends and family were interested in what had happened and universally supportive. I hope that this continues and I wish our deployed troops the best!
Cheers,
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This has been a very interesting thread to read.
Having been on the USMC side of the decompression cycle as Mark C pointed out I feel I can comment on my own experience in Iraq. While my unit didn't spend the 2-3 weeks aboard ship to get back to the US, our tour was in a sense a gradual decompression that began with our stay at Camp Babylon and ended with our return to the US.
We'd been posted to Camp Babylon which was just outside of Al Hillah in the Babil province. At that point in Sept. 2003, Al Hillah was a pretty quiet sector as compared to where we'd came from, the southwest outskirts of Baghdad. Days that really had no beginning or end in Yusifiyah and Mahmudiyah turned into a set schedule of guard duty and QRF (which essentially amounted to time off) for the remnants of the 1st Marine Division Headquarters. Having a set time schedule did wonders for our reintegration. The fact that Babylon had a mess hall with fresh food and shower facilities was also excellent at getting us "humanized" again. Also great was an AT&T phone center and we were able to tell our families and loved ones that we were "into the home stretch" even though our return date was still open-ended. Before that we'd only had access to occasional (once every 2-3 months) 5-10 minute calls home on a very shoddy sat. phone connection.
We finally retrograded to the now defunct Camp Commando in Kuwait in late Sept. and spent the better part of a week there. While Kuwait certainly lacked the amenities of Guam as described, once we had our vehicles and company stores embarked, we were left with about 3-4 days of decompression time. The Naval medical service had each one of us interviewed by a Chaplain and a Navy Medical Officer following a PTSD survey we'd completed to assess our stress levels. I think that our time at Babylon really allowed us to deal with alot of things in-house so that when we got to Kuwait we were well on our way to normalcy. Not that you an ever really the same person you were or that life is ever 'normal'. War makes a person grow...in some ways good, in other ways bad. One of the biggest things that was passed on to us by the Navy Chaplain was to have some realistic expectations about what your homecoming was going to be like. Be ready that if you're married and have a family, life isn't going to be like it was before you left for some time. Also, the importance of communicating your feelings to your loved ones was also important. If you need time alone, let them know. If you don't want a big homecoming with the entire neighborhood, but would rather have some quiet time at home with the wife and kids, that's stuff that needs to be communicated. I think that in order for the process to be successful, it needs to be done on both ends. The spouses and families need to be told what to expect and what kind of resources are available for them upon your return.
We were able to spend a couple days at Camp Arifjan (now the main US base in Kuwait) where there was something that we'd only dreamt about up until this point: A swimming pool. We were still in Kuwait and still along way from home, but we were feeling pretty good to be chilling by the pool, smoking Cohibas and watching the cute Army girls who were stationed permanently at Arifjan work on their tans. About the only thing that would have made it better would have been a few cold beers. Unfortunately, it was a dry camp and unlike Iraq, there was no access to a black market that you could obtain alcohol through.
Upon returning to the US, we had to spend a couple days in Camp Lejeune, NC doing medical examinations, hearing tests, etc. as part of our demobilization process. Some Marines had their families come down immediately to be with them. In hindsight, I'm kind of happy that my girlfriend (now wife) didn't come down to Lejeune. It was pretty good to have a couple nights just with the boys to taste red meat, get obliteratingly drunk and just get used to the idea of being back in the United States.
So when someone asks the question is a decompression time helpful for returning troops? I wholeheartedly say YES! Time to reflect and adjust to what you've been through amongst your brethren in a low-stress environment is invaluable for mental wellbeing.
Having been on the USMC side of the decompression cycle as Mark C pointed out I feel I can comment on my own experience in Iraq. While my unit didn't spend the 2-3 weeks aboard ship to get back to the US, our tour was in a sense a gradual decompression that began with our stay at Camp Babylon and ended with our return to the US.
We'd been posted to Camp Babylon which was just outside of Al Hillah in the Babil province. At that point in Sept. 2003, Al Hillah was a pretty quiet sector as compared to where we'd came from, the southwest outskirts of Baghdad. Days that really had no beginning or end in Yusifiyah and Mahmudiyah turned into a set schedule of guard duty and QRF (which essentially amounted to time off) for the remnants of the 1st Marine Division Headquarters. Having a set time schedule did wonders for our reintegration. The fact that Babylon had a mess hall with fresh food and shower facilities was also excellent at getting us "humanized" again. Also great was an AT&T phone center and we were able to tell our families and loved ones that we were "into the home stretch" even though our return date was still open-ended. Before that we'd only had access to occasional (once every 2-3 months) 5-10 minute calls home on a very shoddy sat. phone connection.
We finally retrograded to the now defunct Camp Commando in Kuwait in late Sept. and spent the better part of a week there. While Kuwait certainly lacked the amenities of Guam as described, once we had our vehicles and company stores embarked, we were left with about 3-4 days of decompression time. The Naval medical service had each one of us interviewed by a Chaplain and a Navy Medical Officer following a PTSD survey we'd completed to assess our stress levels. I think that our time at Babylon really allowed us to deal with alot of things in-house so that when we got to Kuwait we were well on our way to normalcy. Not that you an ever really the same person you were or that life is ever 'normal'. War makes a person grow...in some ways good, in other ways bad. One of the biggest things that was passed on to us by the Navy Chaplain was to have some realistic expectations about what your homecoming was going to be like. Be ready that if you're married and have a family, life isn't going to be like it was before you left for some time. Also, the importance of communicating your feelings to your loved ones was also important. If you need time alone, let them know. If you don't want a big homecoming with the entire neighborhood, but would rather have some quiet time at home with the wife and kids, that's stuff that needs to be communicated. I think that in order for the process to be successful, it needs to be done on both ends. The spouses and families need to be told what to expect and what kind of resources are available for them upon your return.
We were able to spend a couple days at Camp Arifjan (now the main US base in Kuwait) where there was something that we'd only dreamt about up until this point: A swimming pool. We were still in Kuwait and still along way from home, but we were feeling pretty good to be chilling by the pool, smoking Cohibas and watching the cute Army girls who were stationed permanently at Arifjan work on their tans. About the only thing that would have made it better would have been a few cold beers. Unfortunately, it was a dry camp and unlike Iraq, there was no access to a black market that you could obtain alcohol through.
Upon returning to the US, we had to spend a couple days in Camp Lejeune, NC doing medical examinations, hearing tests, etc. as part of our demobilization process. Some Marines had their families come down immediately to be with them. In hindsight, I'm kind of happy that my girlfriend (now wife) didn't come down to Lejeune. It was pretty good to have a couple nights just with the boys to taste red meat, get obliteratingly drunk and just get used to the idea of being back in the United States.
So when someone asks the question is a decompression time helpful for returning troops? I wholeheartedly say YES! Time to reflect and adjust to what you've been through amongst your brethren in a low-stress environment is invaluable for mental wellbeing.
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Coming back from OP Athena 0, we had the standard layover in "camp nowhere" which was extended a few days so we could repatriate a fellow Canadian from in country.Although I was eager to just get home to see my kids and wife,the few days of sitting in the sun and knowing you were no longer in Kabul was a nice break.I think for the few people that just want to get home, there are more out there that need the unwinding time prior to, in order to make the homecoming easier.Im not sure we need a "drinking" decompression though as IMHO that might cause more problems than it would solve.
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So, here's a question.
Do you feel that different sorts of missions require different approaches to decompression? If you're bringing troops home from Baghdad would you need different things like time, activity, and location then you would if bringing guys back from Kosovo?
Do you feel that different sorts of missions require different approaches to decompression? If you're bringing troops home from Baghdad would you need different things like time, activity, and location then you would if bringing guys back from Kosovo?
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