Defending Canadian Arctic Sovereignty

[Colin Parkinson]

Harper for all his warts, was the first PM in a long time that paid attention to the Arctic, but even he his team were primarily focused on winning the next election from day 1.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Harper for all his warts, was the first PM in a long time that paid attention to the Arctic, but even he his team were primarily focused on winning the next election from day 1.

I’m putting it out here now - the PM will be up in the Arctic at least once this summer for the photo ops before the election.  Either on the HDW or at Nanisivik or both.  Guarantee that he does it. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

I’m putting it out here now - the PM will be up in the Arctic at least once this summer for the photo ops before the election.  Either on the HDW or at Nanisivik or both.  Guarantee that he does it.

Too bad he's already handed out all the parkas to the Syrians  :

 

[Cloud Cover]

Every time i go home and see the poverty of Northern Ontario, my exact sentiments to this statement are reinforced. When I speak to seniors who live up there, they tell me they are living on land that no one can make useful after it has been exploited, all the benefit of the land has gone to the wealth of that 200 mile strip. I think this true. I also think that will never change in the lifetime of anyone is alive today, or in 50 years.

 

[Stoker]

I’m putting it out here now - the PM will be up in the Arctic at least once this summer for the photo ops before the election.  Either on the HDW or at Nanisivik or both.  Guarantee that he does it.

Seeing that both are not operational I think you're wrong.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was shocked at how little infrastructure there is in Northern ontario. Every other Province has put far more effort to open their northern regions, considering their historical headstart, it's plain laziness of the politicians and voters.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

That, Colin is because Ontarian think that North Bay is way up in the North and there is nothing beyond.  :nod:

Little do they realize that North Bay is only very slightly North of Ottawa or Montreal, and definitely South of most other non-Ontarian large Canadian cities, like Quebec, St. John's, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary or Vancouver (yes! Vancouver).

Since most Of Ontario's population live in that southern "dagger" into the US, their view of what constitutes "North" is skewed.

Toronto's "We the North" motto for  expressing support for the Raptors is sort of funny when you consider that they are barely more than 130 Km North of Boston (Celtics), and are themselves 140 Km South of the Minneapolis' Timberwolves and definitely 245 Km South of the Portland Trailblazers.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Given the amount of effort Ontario put into first put into aquiring the North in the first place. Including the infamous Rat Portage war of 1883.
You would think they would take better care of it!

 

[Retired AF Guy]

That, Colin is because Ontarian think that North Bay is way up in the North and there is nothing beyond.  :nod:

Heck, I think most Ontarians think the Muskoka's are the end of civilization!

Little do they realize that North Bay is only very slightly North of Ottawa or Montreal, and definitely South of most other non-Ontarian large Canadian cities, like Quebec, St. John's, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Calgary or Vancouver (yes! Vancouver).

Not only that, but it is also south of the 49th parallel - the international border between western Canada and the US.

 

[Old Sweat]

My wife, who is a Northern Ontario girl but taught in Toronto for a number of years, used to say that the average Toronto resident thought the north started at Eglinton Avenue.

 

[Czech_pivo]

My wife, who is a Northern Ontario girl but taught in Toronto for a number of years, used to say that the average Toronto resident thought the north started at Eglinton Avenue.

As someone who grew up in Windsor, Ontario.....don't ask me where the 'North' starts.....

 

[Calvillo]

Or Canada could just put on its adult clothes and actually pay the real costs of sovereignty.

Instead of just mouthing platitudes.

While I understand what you wrote, but pay with what? Are we ready for tax increase or cuts to other government services or cuts to social benefits?

 

[YZT580]

While I understand what you wrote, but pay with what? Are we ready for tax increase or cuts to other government services or cuts to social benefits?

  Yes, quit subsidising laziness and supporting leeches also known as multiple layers of bureaucracy.

 

[Czech_pivo]

  Yes, quit subsidising laziness and supporting leeches also known as multiple layers of bureaucracy.

100% Agree -

 

[Eye In The Sky]

While I understand what you wrote, but pay with what? Are we ready for tax increase or cuts to other government services or cuts to social benefits?

We could start with 'not giving the money away that we need for ourselves'.  Why not stop wasting the tax money the government already gets and prioritize spending better? 

I know. silly ideas.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

BC has invested more effort in our Northern Regions with a much smaller population base and less time. A lot of it due to politicians who had large visions like WAC Bennett.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Following through on USN's, USCG's and Sec. Pompeo's big arctic talk (though not actually there):

Theodore Roosevelt Strike Group in Alaska for High-End, Joint Exercise Northern Edge 2019

An aircraft carrier is in Alaska for Exercise Northern Edge for the first time in a decade, as the service continues to prioritize re-learning how to operate in the Arctic.

Northern Edge 2019 is a high-end joint exercise hosted by U.S. Indo-Pacific Command and focused on air warfare that runs May 13 through 24. About 10,000 personnel are participating, about half of which come from the Theodore Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group currently operating in the Gulf of Alaska. Strike group assets include Carrier Strike Group 9 leadership, USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71), Carrier Air Wing 11, USS Russell (DDG-59), USS Kidd (DDG-100), USS John Finn (DDG-113) and USNS Henry J. Kaiser (T-AO-187).

Rear Adm. Dan Dwyer, who commands the Theodore Roosevelt Carrier Strike Group, told USNI News in a phone call from aboard the carrier that “this is one of the premier exercises for the INDO-PACIFIC commanders. … Northern Edge is designed to sharpen all of our skills, tactical combat operating skills; improve our ability to command and control forces, establish those command relationships; develop our communication networks; with an overall goal of increasing interoperability within the joint force, particularly in the INDO-PACOM region.”

He said the exercise covers command and control over both land and maritime domains, and so “all participants, whether it’s the air wing or the destroyers, are integral to that mission set and each all plug into the higher command and control piece” to share information and work together under a single joint force commander.

Dwyer said his crew was excited to begin the joint event, which would pair the carrier air wing’s F/A-18E/F Super Hornets, EA-18G Growlers and E-2 Hawkeyes with ground-based Navy P-8A Poseidon maritime surveillance aircraft, Marine Corps F-35B Joint Strike Fighters and KC-130 cargo and refueling aircraft, and Air Force jets such as the F-22 and F-15. Any time that many types of aircraft come together to work in a range of mission areas “is incredibly valuable, especially as we talk about exercising at the highest potential of a joint force. So to come together with all those platforms will increase our readiness and our lethality across the board.”

This opportunity is especially valuable to the Navy as it seeks to relearn old lessons about operating in the high latitudes. Last year’s Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group deployment included a jaunt north of the Arctic Circle and in frigid Norwegian waters before and during the NATO exercise Trident Juncture 2018.

Dwyer said he couldn’t speak to the Truman CSG experience, but he said the Navy has operated in the Alaskan Gulf area for 30 years and had many after-action reports for the strike group team to pore over ahead of the exercise.

“As Navy Secretary Richard Spencer told Congress recently, the Navy is deepening our commitment to Arctic security and operations in Alaska,” the admiral said.

“The Alaskan (operating area) is critical to the INDO-PACOM region. The expansive training areas offered here in Alaska provide us with an excellent environment to fully engage and conduct integrated, large-scale joint training exercises unmatched anywhere else in the United States, I must say. The Arctic ice cap is as small as we’ve seen in our lifetime, and this gives rise to increasing trade routes and sea lanes that are open more times of the year, so it’s incredibly important that we as an Arctic nation continue to operate in this area to protect this vital area to our national defense.”..
https://news.usni.org/2019/05/14/theodore-roosevelt-strike-group-in-alaska-for-high-end-joint-exercise-northern-edge-2019

Mark
Ottawa

 

[MarkOttawa]

Some good points from Prof. Huebert--US seems blissfully unaware to our extreme paranoia on this matter:

Winning at all costs: the bizarre position of the Trump administration on the Northwest Passage

Robert Huebert is an associate professor at the University of Calgary

At the conclusion of the Arctic Council meeting earlier this month, U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo stated that Canada’s position on the Northwest Passage is “illegitimate." This should be the definitive proof that the Trump administration cares only about winning, with no regard to its own interests, let alone those of its closest ally and economic partner – Canada.

Mr. Pompeo’s statement is only the latest in a series of comments by Trump administration officials who have made it clear that it is now time to win their argument with Canada regarding the status of the Northwest Passage. The Americans have always maintained that it is an international strait, while Canada argues it is internal waters. The difference in these two positions concerns international shipping through the passage. If Canada is correct, then we have the right to either allow or refuse the entry of foreign vessels in the passage. If the American position prevails, then all international shipping – including submarines – can use the passage regardless of Canada’s position.

In 1988, through the direct involvement of then-president Ronald Reagan – a Republican – and then-prime minister Brian Mulroney the two countries reached a practical solution to the dispute. Agreeing that this solution would not prejudice each other’s position on the passage, the United States would ask Canada for consent for its icebreakers – the only American surface ships capable – to traverse the passage. In return, Canada would automatically grant the consent. With this solution, neither state could be viewed as giving ground and it was a means to avoid politically costly disputes over the issue.

However, due to Mr. Trump’s pathological need to win, the Americans are set to disregard this solution and win the dispute. The U.S. Secretary of the Navy – Richard Spencer – has publicly stated three time this year that the United States is preparing for what they call a freedom of navigation operation through the Northwest Passage. This means sending their one operationally functioning icebreaker or a naval ship through the passage without asking Canada for permission. The idea is not only a direct, stupid insult to Canada, but it is also directly against U.S. interests.

First, while lambasting the Canadian position, Mr. Pompeo also attacked Russia and China for their moves to militarize the Arctic. Given that Russia is actively militarizing and China may soon be taking similar action, the United States’ move to attack Canada, its most important ally, while meeting this threat makes no sense. If the Americans are really concerned about the rise of Russian military strength in the Arctic, they need Canada to help meet the threat.

Specifically, the North American Aerospace Defence Command needs to be modernized to counter the growing Russian threat in the Arctic, and that cannot occur without Canada’s participation, given our Arctic geography and long-standing co-operation on this issue. Given this backdrop, it is astounding that the Americans think provoking Canada on one of the most politically sensitive issues regarding Canadian-U.S. relations is rational. What Canadian prime minister will want to work with the United States to modernize our shared northern defences if they destroy the 1988 agreement that had politically resolved the problem of the Northwest Passage?

Secondly, a freedom of navigation challenge will create a lose-lose situation for the U.S. If the Americans conduct a successful voyage and use that operation at an international court to win their position that the NWP is an international strait, they will open the passage to unimpeded transit of Russian and Chinese submarines and aircraft. Under international law, submarines enjoy the right of transit passage through international straits submerged. If the United States are really concerned about a rising Russian and Chinese threat in the Arctic, how can they possibly believe this is a good thing?

On the other hand, if the ship they send fails to make the transit, whether due to ice conditions or the lack of proper charting in these waters, then all they will have done is prove the Canadian position that these waters are unique and are not a functioning international strait.

Further, the United States will have damaged its relations with Canada. Whether Mr. Trump succeeds or fails in the Arctic, he will have seriously hurt the U.S. relationship with Canada right at the moment they need to be working more closely with us.

While Mr. Trump may get to claim that once again he has won where others have not, what he will actually do is seriously hurt American interests and cause further damage to the special relationship that existed between Canada and the United States.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-winning-at-all-costs-the-bizarre-position-of-the-trump-administration/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Some good points from Prof. Huebert--US seems blissfully unaware to our extreme paranoia on this matter:

Mark
Ottawa

The Americans don't accept our position because it undermines their own military position.  If the NWP became internal waters than the US would not be able to conduct their own submarine operations either. 

IMO, Canada's position is severely weakened by our lack of military capability.  We have no ability to enforce anything and the US is going to do whatever they want, regardless of our position.

 

[Underway]

The Americans don't accept our position because it undermines their own military position.  If the NWP became internal waters than the US would not be able to conduct their own submarine operations either. 

IMO, Canada's position is severely weakened by our lack of military capability.  We have no ability to enforce anything and the US is going to do whatever they want, regardless of our position.

The Americans don't accept our position because if they did they would have to accept North Korea's, Libya's, Russia's and China's position (and a number of others) regarding straight baselines.  They can't without overturning their own foreign policy for actual important countries.  Thus the great compromise.  The US won't sail without asking permission and Canada will never say no.