Divining the right role, capabilities, structure, and Regimental System for Canada's Army Reserves

[Eaglelord17]

Keep in mind we already have leglislation to ensure perental leave (up to 1.5 years now), vacation (min 2 weeks, 3 after 5 years in Ont), and sick leave. Employers fought all those things and claimed they were all not doable. Yet somehow the world is still turning.

That one month of training doesn’t have to be the summer either. My recommendation would be to rotate it each year, basically summer, fall, winter, then spring. 4 year cycle to let the troops actually learn to fight in our environments.

The goal is to make a effective Reserve. It isn’t going to work for all employers. But the current system doesn’t work for the CAF. The biggest obstacle to change is refusing to accept a 80% solution because it isn’t a 100% solution and instead stick with the 10% solution we are working with.

 

[Kilted]

A couple thoughts. You would lose a lot of people if it was only a once a year thing. That would lead to significant skill fade. I don't really know if some people understand how active the reserves actually are. There may be very small minimal requirements for parading, but you have to remember that that is not what the majority of members do.

I like to joke that my recruiter lied to me when he told me that it was a part time job. Yes there are the one night a week and one weekend a month, but I like to call it at least one night a week and at least one night a month. I don't know how it works in other brigades, but we also support a significant amount of Battle School courses. You had in the general extra Class A work that is required to actually run the unit, the random 10 day exercises and other training activities that come up, it's not uncommon to have members doing 80+-120+ Class A days a year.

 

[Eaglelord17]

A couple thoughts. You would lose a lot of people if it was only a once a year thing. That would lead to significant skill fade. I don't really know if some people understand how active the reserves actually are. There may be very small minimal requirements for parading, but you have to remember that that is not what the majority of members do.

I like to joke that my recruiter lied to me when he told me that it was a part time job. Yes there are the one night a week and one weekend a month, but I like to call it at least one night a week and at least one night a month. I don't know how it works in other brigades, but we also support a significant amount of Battle School courses. You had in the general extra Class A work that is required to actually run the unit, the random 10 day exercises and other training activities that come up, it's not uncommon to have members doing 80+-120+ Class A days a year.

Very true about some members doing that much time. Most I would argue don't.

This still wouldn't replace the opportunities for Class B or Class C work. I just envision a Reg Force (or Class B) member sending taskings via email to members and them stating what is available. Members could still send up whoever there decentralized contact is that they are looking for work. You can still request to go on courses to advance your career. There just might not be many of the one or two day small party tasks which exist currently as those armouries and geographical units wouldn't exist, but the larger ones still likely would. Your career would be very individual orientated and controlled.

A lot of that general Class A work wouldn't be needed as the units would stand down each year after the 'exercise'. We create a lot of the requirements for that smaller party work, because we exist as so many different units in so many different areas. A lot of the admin we have would disappear as much of it is created by the focus on Class A work and short term parading. There still could be the occasional Class A tasking, but most of it would likely be Class B for a short term contract.

I would also argue that 80+ days of Class A isn't exactly 80 days of valuable training. How much of it is simply keeping the lights on, planning exercises, sweeping the floors, cleaning the trucks, struggling to find funding, etc. How much of it is practicing your trade, honing skills, and field exercises?

The biggest benefit the 1 month training exercise would have is the fact we would have full strength units operating in the field as a army. Less focus on getting the section skills down pat, more focus on making us a effective force.

I see this style of system slowly leading to a 200k Reserve Army which could be practical. I cannot see our current system effectively sustaining anywhere near that.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I would also argue that 80+ days of Class A isn't exactly 80 days of valuable training. How much of it is simply keeping the lights on, planning exercises, sweeping the floors, cleaning the trucks, struggling to find funding, etc. How much of it is practicing your trade, honing skills, and field exercises?

For those at the Coy/Sqn level and below that would be about 80% of your time, which is why I preferred to 'ceiling' myself at the Company level.

And we never got anywhere near 80 days of Class A time. It was always budgeted at 37 days per year, during the training year between September and May.

 

[AmmoTech90]

What is the realistic role of the Army Reserve? Individual reinforcement of Reg Force units?

Maybe we shut it all down and take those fractional PYs and the O&M from Armouries and add them to the Reg Force. Round out understrenth units that need augmentation for deployments.
I know nothing about the Naval Reserve, so no comment.
My knowledge of the Air Reserve comes from my wife being in it for six years. During that time she performed much more useful and relevant duties than she ever did in the Militia following her Reg Force time.

 

[OldSolduer]

What is the realistic role of the Army Reserve? Individual reinforcement of Reg Force units?

Herein lies the problem - no one knows and no one has an answer.

Amalgamate regiments - create new ones. Or reactivate those like the Winnipeg Grenadiers and fold the other two into that one. I would daresay that would cause a lot of harumphing in the St Andrews Society here. And The Royal Winnipeg Rifles as well.
Its time to fix this because the current model is not working.

 

[Eaglelord17]

What is the realistic role of the Army Reserve? Individual reinforcement of Reg Force units?

Maybe we shut it all down and take those fractional PYs and the O&M from Armouries and add them to the Reg Force. Round out understrenth units that need augmentation for deployments.
I know nothing about the Naval Reserve, so no comment.
My knowledge of the Air Reserve comes from my wife being in it for six years. During that time she performed much more useful and relevant duties than she ever did in the Militia following her Reg Force time.

Realistically I see the goal of the Army Reserve to be having a force which you can call up in times of need. I see the goal of the Reg Force Army being immediate usage of force/smaller scale conflicts. We can't just maintain a large Reg Force Army, the government has shown us they aren't going to fund that. The population also isn't willing to support a Army the size that would be needed either for a long period.

Unlike the Navy or Airforce, I don't see the Army as something that needs to be constantly in motion. Also unlike the Air Force or Navy, you need a lot more troops to have a impact when they are required.

So that leaves the requirement for part time soldiers to meet the manning which would be required. Currently the best we can do is augment a Reg Force unit with a few pers because of the voluntary nature of the Reserves and the random nature of the training each unit receives due to the current arrangement. Keep in mind the Reserves is still necessary because as Afghanistan showed us, we could barely sustain that small scale conflict with how few troops we now have, let alone a large scale conflict with a peer or close to peer nation.

 

[Ostrozac]

A couple thoughts. You would lose a lot of people if it was only a once a year thing. That would lead to significant skill fade.

Is skill fade really an issue, though? The US employs IRR Reservists that haven’t done their job for years. Our own Supp Reserve seems to believe that a trained soldier doesn’t suffer significant skill fade until 5 years off the job. I myself haven’t been in a field unit for over 10 years now, but I’m sure I could jump back into it if I had to. Especially if the model is that there’s a 6 month predeployment period.

I seem to remember that there was funding back in the day for a Supp Reservist to collect one day Class A pay a year — they were expected to report to their nearest base, presumably to confirm their contact information in a crisis and that they were still among the living. Maybe a revitalized Supp Reserve solves a bunch of our problems if we want to use the reserves as strictly an individual augmentation pool.

 

[mariomike]

Reporting window Thursday night, full day Fri/Sat/Sun, end Monday early enough to be home for late dinner and back to work on Tuesday.

In addition to working the rest of the week for your full-time employer.

Would that be in conflict with Hours of Service?

Hours of service | The Official Ministry of Transportation (MTO) Truck Handbook

The online version of the Ontario truck handbook. Use this book to study for your A and D licence, test your knowledge and prepare for your A and D road tests.

www.ontario.ca

Not a rhetorical question. My job was exempt from the regulation. But, I remember reading about it.

Working a side gig "under the table" is one thing. But, PRes isn't like that.

Whatever the regulation, if you start screwing up on your full-time job, due to lack of rest, especially a "safety sensitive" job, there could be repercussions with your employer.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In my day it was one evening and one weekend day, coupled with weekend exercises and a 2 week Milcon. Right now I find that running a Cadet program is almost a full time job, I do something with it everyday. I can imagine the admin for a militia unit is far more burdensome.

 

[MilEME09]

In my day it was one evening and one weekend day, coupled with weekend exercises and a 2 week Milcon. Right now I find that running a Cadet program is almost a full time job, I do something with it everyday. I can imagine the admin for a militia unit is far more burdensome.

Wednesday nights, weekends, due to lack of NCOs, courses, plus atleast a few days Worth of admin per month. I personally pick two nights a week and get my admin done in one sitting, but if I added up all my time it would probably be about 4 days worth, not that I get paid for it all.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Imagine how much wouldn’t get done if res mbrs only worked when they were on the pay sheet.

Maybe that is what needs to happen. Let it crumble and fail instead of continuing to “make it work”.

While the Army area seems to be floundering again, most Air Res members are being offered up to 330 days/year if they are annuitants and Cl B surge employment is pretty regular. That trend is expected to continue into the next FY according to the Air area recruiter who presented at the SCAN seminar I was on earlier this week.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Army Reserve to be having a force which you can call up in times of need

Which we cannot do effectively. Look how long it can take to get a reservist into the field during fires or floods.

Also unlike the Air Force or Navy, you need a lot more troops to have a impact when they are required.

We don't have a lot of troops in the Army reserve.

Keep in mind the Reserves is still necessary because as Afghanistan showed us,

It showed us that our reg force units were understrength. The reserves were not necessary, if we didn't have then we would have sent smaller units- as we are structured now. What if the CA as a whole didn't have to augment units to bring them up to strength? Would the the reserves be needed?

large scale conflict with a peer or close to peer nation.

Peer nation like who? We cannot effectively invade anyone. Therefore our peers cannot effectively invade us. So not needed there.

I was in the reserves, I had a great time, it taught me a lot. I was also in a unit that had a defined cold war role and we practiced that. We deployed monthly to maintain and operate Central Relocation Units up and down the Ottawa Valley.
Don't know what it's role is now.

 

[Remius]

Imagine how much wouldn’t get done if res mbrs only worked when they were on the pay sheet.

The system would collapse.

Maybe that is what needs to happen. Let it crumble and fail instead of continuing to “make it work”.

It certainly would be a wake up call for some.

While the Army area seems to be floundering again, most Air Res members are being offered up to 330 days/year if they are annuitants and Cl B surge employment is pretty regular. That trend is expected to continue into the next FY according to the Air area recruiter who presented at the SCAN seminar I was on earlier this week.

 

[Remius]

Which we cannot do effectively. Look how long it can take to get a reservist into the field during fires or floods.


We don't have a lot of troops in the Army reserve.


It showed us that our reg force units were understrength. The reserves were not necessary, if we didn't have then we would have sent smaller units- as we are structured now. What if the CA as a whole didn't have to augment units to bring them up to strength? Would the the reserves be needed?

That is one of the biggest issues the CAF has. We measure success and capability by changing goal posts so we can claim success.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Which we cannot do effectively. Look how long it can take to get a reservist into the field during fires or floods.

FWIW, during the recent (massive) floods in BC's lower mainland, the main delay in deploying ARes troops was putting Reservists onto Class C contracts, apparently. This has been the same issue during the call outs for the big fires over the past few years.

A typical Reservist will turn up at the armoury in a couple of hours, ready to deploy with all his/her kit for as long as is needed, if you want them to.

It's mainly the ridiculous paperwork that takes the time, sadly.

 

[Rifleman62]

The Cl C contract fiasco for the Army PRes. The Air Reserve seemed to be able to do it in a couple of days. We went through this for every FRY Roto.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The Cl C contract fiasco for the Army PRes. The Air Reserve seemed to be able to do it in a couple of days. We went through this for every FRY Roto.

When I deployed (to a short term, cushy, cubicle job) on OP LENTUS they didn't have the contract worked out until well after I had completed my stint, and I didn't get paid for months.

All the Reg F dudes were worried that I wasn't getting paid for 'serving my country'.

I just reminded them that's how the ARes rolls anyways, so no sweat

 

[Remius]

FWIW, during the recent (massive) floods in BC's lower mainland, the main delay in deploying ARes troops was putting Reservists onto Class C contracts, apparently. This has been the same issue during the call outs for the big fires over the past few years.

A typical Reservist will turn up at the armoury in a couple of hours, ready to deploy with all his/her kit for as long as is needed, if you want them to.

It's mainly the ridiculous paperwork that takes the time, sadly.

We sat on our rucks for three days during one of the OP Lentus. We managed to have a full DRC ready to go but sat around for someone to make a decision from the Reg force lead on where to employ us. All great until troops who volunteered their time and put their lives on hold to do what they were asked to do started to see that they were wasting their time and began asking to be RTUed.

Getting troops out and gtg on short notice is not normally an issue. But you better employ them or they won’t bother the next time.

 

[WLSC]

What is the realistic role of the Army Reserve? Individual reinforcement of Reg Force units?

Maybe we shut it all down and take those fractional PYs and the O&M from Armouries and add them to the Reg Force. Round out understrenth units that need augmentation for deployments.
I know nothing about the Naval Reserve, so no comment.
My knowledge of the Air Reserve comes from my wife being in it for six years. During that time she performed much more useful and relevant duties than she ever did in the Militia following her Reg Force time.

In my experience, what ever the real role of the ARes, somewhere down the CoC it will be interpreted as what it is now. Why? That stupid systemic jealousy and fear of being deemed irrelevant by weekender. ARes will be given a task, fully supported by words, intension and not much ressources and then been told they failed.

It would need a loooooot of serious love from the political master for it to work. We all know that maybe if Canada is invaded it might happen, what ever the colour of the ruling party, end even then.

If someone have seen something serious since the end of the 80's beginning of the 90's in that direction, you can remind me. The ARes have been ''holding'' only by the effort of it's member and some RegF members, dispite of the CA directorates white towers.