Dress and Deportment

[Navy_Pete]

Out of curiosity, has there been any change in the willingness of junior officers to do so since dueling was removed from the Criminal Code?

It seems like a pretty small group, due to the expense (also, who really wants a sword?).  Aside from a few people I know that picked up one during the centennial, don't know anyone that actually has their own. Or if they do, they don't talk about it. 

Buying a mess kit is about as far as most people are willing to go (and know of a few without one).

Might be fun to make, but unless I have a castle or something where a sword hanging on a wall would be in style seems like a waste of money.

But you know, if you are part of the pearl clutching dinosaur gaits and garters squad, maybe it's gauche and disgraceful not to be able to do some kind of Horatio Hornblower roleplaying on your free time.  :dunno:

Hate these kind of threads in general. No one in the photo was involved in any of the decisions made, but their photo will be endlessly nitpicked and criticized. I'm sure all of them would have rather been doing something other than being a dog and pony show for the PM and NATO SecGen and would have happily gone about doing their jobs instead.

 

[dimsum]

Hate these kind of threads in general. No one in the photo was involved in any of the decisions made, but their photo will be endlessly nitpicked and criticized. I'm sure all of them would have rather been doing something other than being a dog and pony show for the PM and NATO SecGen and would have happily gone about doing their jobs instead.

Agreed.  I'm sure there's an actual reason for the dress - I'm sure it was signed off by an RSM, and they don't seem like the most flexible on these sorts of things. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'd say, looking back over the past few years, the CDS has set the standard for parades/ceremonies and the DEU/operational dress question.  There was a picture of him in Europe, meeting with peers;  they were in DEU, he was in CADPAT.  There was the parade in Esqmailt he reviewed...in operational dress.  He recently visited 14 Wing to present something to 404; the Guard and CDS...in operational dress.

Why, now, would anyone be surprised to see the picture from Pet? 

Personally, I think these events should be done in No. 1 but I'm just an oar-puller at the end of the day....

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Hate these kind of threads in general. No one in the photo was involved in any of the decisions made, but their photo will be endlessly nitpicked and criticized. I'm sure all of them would have rather been doing something other than being a dog and pony show for the PM and NATO SecGen and would have happily gone about doing their jobs instead.

I read this and realized that you're right.  Some of my comments were overly harsh and on reflection, inappropriate. 

I still think they shouldn't be parading in Combats but that wasn't their call. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

I just asked a friend who worked in Brussels about this.  He said it isn't uncommon for certain European countries to do parades like this in combats with the caveat being "their uniforms actually look good".

So I'm partially leaning towards "this could be ok if our uniforms weren't so atrocious".

I like Mary Barra's policy:

"As chief executive at General Motors, Barra practices what she preaches. Her management philosophy is epitomized by GM’s workplace dress code—which is equally brief, and also an antidote to the restrictive, wallet-draining policies at many large corporations. It reads, in full: “Dress appropriately.”
https://qz.com/work/1242801/gms-dress-code-is-only-two-words/

What is appropriate dress for a formal parade for a Head of State, our own no less?

I'm going with 'the highest possible standard' which, in this case, we failed to do IMHO.

 

[BDTyre]

What is appropriate dress for a formal parade for a Head of State, our own no less?

I'm going with 'the highest possible standard' which, in this case, we failed to do IMHO.

Except the PM is not our Head of State nor is he our Head of State's representative.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I like the trend of the RCAF change of command parades in the summer being in 3Bs.  Fewer people hitting the tarmac is a good thing.

Agreed 100%.  I was a spectator for the Wg Cmd CofC 2 years ago, just sitting the seats in No1 was pretty brutal.  I was envying those on parade for the breeze that was reaching them...

Sqn CofC last summer was 3B and I think everyone was the better for it.  Practice was in dress of the day (2 practices about 2 hours each) and the parade was fairly well done (by RCAF standards).  Good balance between keeping "things in the air" that week and getting parades done to an acceptable standard.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Except the PM is not our Head of State nor is he our Head of State's representative.

But he is the Head of our Government and his guest was the NATO Secretary General.

I just look at what others are doing and what we have done in the past:

These visits are often carefully choreographed forms of Statecraft, and it's part of doing business.  Those Portuguese Soldiers are in combats btw but they still look well turned out.

 

[BDTyre]

But he is the Head of our Government and his guest was the NATO Secretary General.

I just look at what others are doing and what we have done in the past:

These visits are often carefully choreographed forms of Statecraft, and it's part of doing business.  Those Portuguese Soldiers are in combats btw but they still look well turned out.

Fair point, and I do agree that DEUs would have been more appropriate.
What's with the white boot laces on the Portuguese?

 

[FJAG]

But he is the Head of our Government and his guest was the NATO Secretary General.

I just look at what others are doing and what we have done in the past:

These visits are often carefully choreographed forms of Statecraft, and it's part of doing business.  Those Portuguese Soldiers are in combats btw but they still look well turned out.

Then there are their Spanish Legion cousins:

;D

 

[BDTyre]

Needs more chest hair and more substantial gold chains...

 

[FSTO]

Fair point, and I do agree that DEUs would have been more appropriate.
What's with the white boot laces on the Portuguese?

They may have been in combats, but those are their No 1A combats!

 

[FSTO]

It seems like a pretty small group, due to the expense (also, who really wants a sword?).  Aside from a few people I know that picked up one during the centennial, don't know anyone that actually has their own. Or if they do, they don't talk about it. 

Buying a mess kit is about as far as most people are willing to go (and know of a few without one).

Might be fun to make, but unless I have a castle or something where a sword hanging on a wall would be in style seems like a waste of money.

But you know, if you are part of the pearl clutching dinosaur gaits and garters squad, maybe it's gauche and disgraceful not to be able to do some kind of Horatio Hornblower roleplaying on your free time.  :dunno:

Hate these kind of threads in general. No one in the photo was involved in any of the decisions made, but their photo will be endlessly nitpicked and criticized. I'm sure all of them would have rather been doing something other than being a dog and pony show for the PM and NATO SecGen and would have happily gone about doing their jobs instead.

The reason why the poor sods get roasted is because the ones who make these decisions are rarely identified as the authors of some of these shyte shows. Sometimes pointing out the errors are the only way errors get corrected.

I've watched a couple of BoA parades in Ottawa and was appalled at the turnout of the colour party, namely of the colour officer. I actually went to the CFSU Ottawa staff in charge of parades with references about proper dress for parades. The RCR and Vandoo Sgt listen to me politely but pointed out that unless the Navy comes out with a reference signed by CRCN for Naval Parades there is nothing they could do. They also told me that they have attempted to assist some officers and were basically told to bugger off.

I've been told that there will soon be a complete rewrite of the RCN Manual of Ceremony and will include parades, sword drill, etc. I await to see the results. Most of the issues that us "Gate and Gaiter" Asshole Dinosaurs point out are simple things that can be fixed by senior pers reading the refs and making sure they are followed correctly. The kids who trim their hair and beards, iron their clothes and shine their boots are NOT TO BLAME! The fault lays completely with their leaders who take the easy way out.

I'll finish with this, the folks in the Army and RCAF can parade in leopard print thongs, bras, and flip flops  for all I care, but when the RCN is on parade I like to see them in a proper rig that suits the occasion. ;D

 

[daftandbarmy]

Except the PM is not our Head of State nor is he our Head of State's representative.

Touché!!

I dunno ... schlepping around in ‘3rd World Junta’ parade dress, in front of a Prime Minister who is the least military friendly in a long while, can’t be a good thing.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I've been told that there will soon be a complete rewrite of the RCN Manual of Ceremony and will include parades, sword drill, etc. I await to see the results. Most of the issues that us "Gate and Gaiter" ******* Dinosaurs point out are simple things that can be fixed by senior pers reading the refs and making sure they are followed correctly.

Actually had one of the RCN non-official facebook groups in mind.  Recent complaints have included people being out and about doing groceries after work in NCDs and ballcap (aka dress of the day and authorized walking out dress), not wearing the medals in the right place (the weird RN placement that is almost up their shoulder), kids having no pride etc.  Expect this was not on there only because there was no RCN pers in the photo, but there is a lot of throwbacks bemoaning the poor quality of everything we do today, and how they would have done it better and cheaper (while drunker and more philandering).

I'm all for following the refs and not being a bag of hammers/soup sandwhich.  I hate being on parades because I turn into an anal retentive wreck and spend far more time then necessary making everything perfect with my kit, and am an anxious wreck worried about dropping the ball throughout, and is a generally unpleasant go from flash to bang. Normally go find a friendly drill wizard and practice before hand as well. Haven't ever actually done anything but an adequate to good job, but find it more stressful than actual emergencies, so don't go looking for them.  If I do get voluntold and look a mess, definitely not from a lack of preparation.

No real excuse for not wearing the uniform properly, but in this specific case, the folks pictured here are doing as told, and I'm sure the Maj and RSM probably messed around with the belt and sword for a while and figured wearing the belt underneath combats was the lesser of all weevils (for a gratuitous Master & Commander ref).

 

[brihard]

I'll finish with this, the folks in the Army and RCAF can parade in leopard print thongs, bras, and flip flops  for all I care

...

Go on...

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

...

Go on...

hey!  A mans fantasies are not for public consumption....

 

[dapaterson]

The fault lays completely with their leaders who take the easy way out.

Multifunction quote of the day / week / month / year.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. .  the folks in the Army and RCAF can parade in leopard print thongs, bras, and flip flops  . . .

A warning, while this may be a ludicrous image, if you google it (as I did to add to the joke) one picture that may come up is of a former disgraced Trenton Base Commander.  I'll just leave it here.

 

[FSTO]

Actually had one of the RCN non-official facebook groups in mind.

So you missed my reference to said group in my post you quoted.

Call me a dinosaur all you want, I’m of an age where I wear that insult with pride.