Driving Backup Signals
- Thread starter Thaddaeus
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Ground Guiding? I've got an old tankers manual at home that I can upload the hand signals out of. That's the only thing I can find.
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A quick interjection here.
Crossing ones arms above their head is NOT "STOP".
It is a handsignal used when operating a hoist or crane, indicating to stop movement of the crane, not the vehicle.
Crossing ones arms above their head is NOT "STOP".
It is a handsignal used when operating a hoist or crane, indicating to stop movement of the crane, not the vehicle.
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George Wallace said:
Correct. Palms flat and straight out in front is a signal to STOP... unless you're in the middle east... then it means "Welcome."
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Having a heck of a time posting 12 pages of Ground Guide Signals.
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Stuck with doing two pages at a time:
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A couple more (halfway):
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7 and 8 of 12:
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9 and 10 of 12:
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11 and 12 of 12 ( My pdf file was to large so had to break it down to jpg images of each page.):
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Those are exactly the ones I was going to put up!
Thanks George.
Thanks George.
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A couple of points for those who do not know the difference between a "Neutral Turn" and a "Pivot Turn". A "Neutral Turn" is when a tank can turn by making one track go forward and the other reverse, allowing it to turn on the spot (leaving a perfect donut on the pavement from its rubber trackpads). A "Pivot Turn" is where one track is locked and the other track moves (Forward or Reverse) and the vehicle 'slides' around in a turn.
The Leopard will do a "Neutral Turn" with the gear selected in Neutral. It will do a "Pivot Turn" if it is in a Forward or Reverse gear.
NOTE: WARNING: The daytime hand signals can be used at night, dispensing with your flashlight, when the vehicle crew are using NVGs. Using a flashlight would only blind them, and may cause the driver to run you over.
The Leopard will do a "Neutral Turn" with the gear selected in Neutral. It will do a "Pivot Turn" if it is in a Forward or Reverse gear.
NOTE: WARNING: The daytime hand signals can be used at night, dispensing with your flashlight, when the vehicle crew are using NVGs. Using a flashlight would only blind them, and may cause the driver to run you over.
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LunchMeat said:
Make sure it's not for Centurion. Pulling the right tiller bar in reverse would swing the ass end left
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recceguy said:Make sure it's not for Centurion. Pulling the right tiller bar in reverse would swing the ass end left
That brings up an important point: MAKE SURE THAT YOUR GROUND GUIDE(S) KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Both the Driver and Ground Guides must understand what the signals mean and how to apply them. If the Driver has any doubts, they are to STOP.
Unless absolutely necessary due to lack of personnel, it is advisable to have on Ground Guide in front and one in the rear.
Rheostatic
Full Member
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The attached is an excerpt from C-02-040-010/MB-001 DRIVER’S POLICIES: RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR DRIVERS OF DND VEHICLES, dated 2014-03-01.Thaddaeus said:
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Rheostatic said:
And so the confusion has now made it into a manual. (This happens when someone who was improperly taught something and takes it as the "Gospel" rises to a position where they can change manuals.) (PS: I witnessed this first hand when Instructing a FMC Dvr Crse and one of the Syndicate Instructors varied from the Lesson Plans and taught his whole syndicate incorrect and dangerous procedures, because that was how he was taught. He would not change his mind. Had he risen to a position where he may have changed the Lesson Plans, the end results would have perpetuated his incorrect teachings.) In this case, please go back and see the similarity to the hand signal for a "PIVOT TURN".
Could you, as you have access, find the Rules and Regulations for operating of cranes and hoists and find us the hand signals for the guides assisting the crane or hoist operator?
I ask, as ARV operators have two sets of hand signals that they use: one to move the vehicle; and one for the movement of the crane. The "Crossed Arms" is a hand signal for the boom operator to "stop" the boom. Over time, people (mostly mechanics) have taken the hand signals for the boom and used them inter-mixed with vehicle hand signals. This can cause confusion for an operator who may be operating both at the same time, as in the ARV crews, or a tank driver who may mistake it for a "Pivot Turn" or a "Neutral Turn". Again an example where both the operator and the guides MUST all be "on the same Net" and know and understand what signals are being used.
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It really doesn't seem like it's worth the panty bunching.
There's a number of hand signs that overlap between crane signals and ground guiding signals...
The crossed arms signal for stop came into common use because, particularly at night, or when you're wearing camouflage clothing in the woods, there was a lack of clarity between stop, forward, and backward...
If there's one sign you absolutely want clear, it's stop, there should be absolutely no ambiguity between stop and any other signal.
I don't have the military crane hand signs here, but if they're using normal crane hand signs, crossed arms doesn't mean a thing, the closest would be crossed palms with thumbs interlocked for "dog all" (stop for a crane actually looking very much like a chane direction left hand sign for ground guiding)
Meanwhile, far more important that getting upset over new manuals is the clarity of communication between driver and ground guide. If a signal is unclear, stop.
Ultimately it's the driver who's responsible for the vehicle
There's a number of hand signs that overlap between crane signals and ground guiding signals...
The crossed arms signal for stop came into common use because, particularly at night, or when you're wearing camouflage clothing in the woods, there was a lack of clarity between stop, forward, and backward...
If there's one sign you absolutely want clear, it's stop, there should be absolutely no ambiguity between stop and any other signal.
I don't have the military crane hand signs here, but if they're using normal crane hand signs, crossed arms doesn't mean a thing, the closest would be crossed palms with thumbs interlocked for "dog all" (stop for a crane actually looking very much like a chane direction left hand sign for ground guiding)
Meanwhile, far more important that getting upset over new manuals is the clarity of communication between driver and ground guide. If a signal is unclear, stop.
Ultimately it's the driver who's responsible for the vehicle
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a Sig Op said:
That is the very most important point, above all else.
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I agree completely also I would like to add, make sure you discuss the signals and what they are and appoint one of the ground guides to be incharge (if one of the ground guides is a WO its obviously him). Also if you are in a truck OPEN your window,(I cannot shout through glass) and talk to the driver and when need shout WWTGeorge Wallace said:
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