Ex PHOENIX RAM - Brigade Training Event 2005 (BTE 05) in Wainwright

[Teddy Ruxpin]

The BLUEFOR didn't have tank or direct fire support but they did have the resources to deal with a company dug in with 3-4 tanks.

Indirect fire, I assume?

Even so, the force ratio is all wrong and attacking a company with a company violates most tactical principles.  The "tanks are useless" crowd would do well to note how quickly even a troop ruined an attacking force's day...

 

[Gunner]

I don't think it mattered that there were tanks there or not...as you mentioned, the force ratio was way off.  There were varrious resources for BLUEFOR (CAS, Arty, etc) that could have been better employed.  Once again, so sayeth this desk warrior. ;D

 

[D-n-A]

Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company.   Something to remember; seems like they may have forgotten to teach it to a couple of courses!  

Yea, they underestimated the size of the enemy force in that position,  they believed that it was just a platoon there.

 

[cbt arms sub tech]

Anyone got some pic's to post, compared to what DND has on the image gallery....

 

[cbt arms sub tech]

Once deploying back to respective units, do soliders typically get a few days off to sort out personal kit & family matters, or right back to work after the Ex is complete....

 

[McG]

Once deploying back to respective units, do soliders typically get a few days off to sort out personal kit & family matters, or right back to work after the Ex is complete....

No days off until all cleaning & maint is complete.  1 VP should be stood-down Fri & Mon.

The BLUEFOR didn't have tank or direct fire support but they did have the resources to deal with a company dug in with 3-4 tanks.

There were Leopards playing at being MGS, and M113A2 based ADATS & TUA (or a DFS Tp as it was collectively called).

Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company.

I hope that was not the only lesson learned.

 

[MJP]

Quote from: Gunner on October 21, 2005, 22:09:19
Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company.
I hope that was not the only lesson learned.

I hope so too....considering the push to attack that objective came from above the unit.  The whole plan at the company level came together in just over an hour or so IIRC.  We had just set our OPs to picket to objective when the word came in to attack.  Nothing better than crossing the LOD as the lead PL and getting radio traffic from your recce C/S's asking if you need the site sketch.  We knew that there was a company or so of enemy there plus Tangos and BTRs at our level (PL/section), makes you wonder why someone didn't tell someone else all the conditions for victory weren't set at any level?(besides my troops and peers)  Not so much fun for the attacker.

CAS wasn't availiable (according to our FOO)
The town was a no arty area and the observation tower/Mosque was a No Fire Area...Kinda limits a tankless combat teams options IMHO.  Besides without some form of WES any veh, arty or AT weapon engagement was a farce anyway.  Lets not talk about the disasterous first attempt to take Vernenburg and link up TF2-06 with it's ZULU vehicles.....Nothing like running into 8 tanks and a PL or two of BTRs with a combat team....

Quote from: cbt arms sub tech on Today at 12:15:40
Once deploying back to respective units, do soliders typically get a few days off to sort out personal kit & family matters, or right back to work after the Ex is complete....
No days off until all cleaning & maint is complete.  1 VP should be stood-down Fri & Mon.

1 VP will be sttod down Thurs/Fri....Monday is the start of some of the TMST training

 

[McG]

For those looking to see more on the BTE, Global has been doing a lot of promotions for a summary on thier 6 o'clock news tonight (even newspaper adds yesterday).  I don't know if it is Canada wide or just here in the West.

1 VP will be sttod down Thurs/Fri....Monday is the start of some of the TMST training

Seems different sub-units had either Thurs/Fri (the rifle Coys) or Fri/Mon (HQ & Fd Sqn).  Enjoy the FA trg @ the Ramada tomorrow.

 

[MJP]

Enjoy the FA trg @ the Ramada tomorrow.

Yea I'll be all over it.....there's only 23 FA Instructors waiting to be certified within the TF itself.....not to mention many more that are certified to teach and we hired civvies.  I know why they went that route but still seems silly to me.

 

[McG]

Did we win?

I've heard one thought echoed a few times now, and I thought I'd look for more opinions on it.  It basically suggests that there was no level 6 trg, and what was called "level 6/7" was in fact only level 7.  I know that in the BG it was emphasised at a few times that we were a trg aid for the Bde.

Thoughts?

 

[bigwig]

Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company.
I hope that was not the only lesson learned.

hahaha. I was the number one on the 84 when you guys attacked six hills that day. It turned into a mass cas pretty quick

 

[m410]

This can probably be desticked.

 

[TCBF]

"Let's just say that one unit learned the hard way that you can't attack a dug in enemy company with tank and LAV support with just a LAV company."

- Like, we didn't know THAT sixty years ago?

;D

 

[Dissident]

Reading Contact Charlie and it mentions in passing that the BTE 05 was not all that great: MOdeled on cold war doctrine, forcing old TTPs on units, using and facing equipment that did not accuratly reflect the coming deployement to Afg.

On my end that ex was terrible, 15 MP Coy was shoved in a corner of the trg area (Irma Gate) and all we had was our higher HQ bumping us to keep us busy. I guess we weren't the only ones who had a reason to complain.