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Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]

RCPalmer

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PuckChaser said:
Hope is not a valid COA.

At the moment, status quo isn't a valid COA either. The failures of the recruiting system are impacting the ability of the reserve force to fullfill their assigned mandate, and grow in accordance with government direction.  I am all for fixing the underlying processes, but I recognize that they are outside of the control of the Army, or in some cases, the CAF.  There is also a significant element of institutional inertia to be overcome here, and we simply can't wait anymore if we are going to follow the lawful orders we have received from the CDS and Comd CA.  Conditional enrollments have been used quite successfully in the past, and provide the force the flexibility to get members going on training while the bureaucracy grinds along.

In the conditional enrollment scenario the PRes member still receives the same amount of screening as a RegF member (more if you keep in mind that the PRes conducts pre-enrollment fitness testing), within their first couple of months in the CAF.  All we are talking about here is assuming some risk during basic training, which I have noted in my posts above, is minimal. 
 

George Wallace

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What I witnessed, now that all recruiting is through the CFRG, is that the REG F quota system and criteria are applied to the Reserves.  Unlike the Reg F, that is recruiting for full-time work in various Trades, a Reserve unit is only recruiting, in the majority of cases, single Trade Cbt Arms types.  Non-Cbt Arms units face their own distinctive problems that are quite different, as well.  All Reserve units, however, can not survive by only recruiting to fill their allotted positions, as the Reg F does.  They must, due to high turn over and attrition for numerous reasons, recruit a minimum of four or five for each position in the dire hopes of keeping those positions filled.  Succession planning in the Reserves is difficult when a great number of their members may only remain in the unit or as Reservists for two to five years.  Being a much smaller organization than the Regular Force, one that rarely transfers members to other units, that becomes quite problematic.
 

McG

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I have heard that the PRes establishment is greater than the authorized strength.  That means that by design the PRes cannot fill all its positions and some units will do without ... but that is not a recruiting problem.  It is a topic of another thread.
 

RCPalmer

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MCG said:
I have heard that the PRes establishment is greater than the authorized strength.  That means that by design the PRes cannot fill all its positions and some units will do without ... but that is not a recruiting problem.  It is a topic of another thread.

The establishments are definitely another topic, and as you say there are some structural issues that prevent the PRes from ever approaching its full ARE strength.  However, I still think both recruiting and training system improvements will be required to achieve even the modest PRes growth necessary to ensure the long term viability of the organization.
 

DAA

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RCPalmer said:
That is completely self imposed, and can be addressed internally. When I worked in recruiting, 5.e. was within the CFRC CO's authority, and it was one form.  It is simply a matter of delegating the correct release item to the proper authority (CBG Comd/Unit CO) or making use of one of the release items already available to them.

I get that, but that is no reason to accept an inefficient and ineffective process.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one.  I was a Prod O and MCC for three years, conducted hundreds of interviews and thousands of files went across my desk.  In my experience, criminal issues were rarely a surprise.  Credit issues were more complicated, but the issues found in the reports were rarely showstoppers.  An applicant might forget about their overdue fees from the library, but they aren't going to forget that they are under bankruptcy proceedings, and if they do we are completely in our rights to treat that as a breach of trust, and process as an irregular enrollment.

Incorrect.  PRes attractions is the responsibility of the elements.  The entire CAF applicant processing capability is either organic to, or operates under the control of CFRG. If PRes applicant processing was not a CFRG responsibility, it would be resourced and manned completely differently.

I would be happy to take that to the PMs.  I have observed that process on both sides of the fence for more than a decade, and it has proven extremely problematic.

At the end of the day and believe it or not, CFRG is neither base line funded nor mandated to provide support to Reserve Force Recruiting or Processing efforts but yet and for various reasons, CFRG does currently manage the processing component on their behalf.  No doubt, the "Good Idea Fairies" thought this part up.

It's all about "resource management" and higher has pulled back several components of the processing function with the thought that it would improve things.  It appears that someone somewhere feels that the US Recruiting Model (Recruiting Stations and Processing Stations) is a suitable option for use here in Canada, so it appears that's what we are slowly moving towards.

Reserve Force recruiting efforts have been problematic at best and in some instances, Units aren't able to meet their intake requirements due to slow processing, lack of qualified/suitable applicants or poor communications/working relationships with the processing Det.

I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly of it all.  Hopefully the CA chooses some sort of path to follow inorder to meet their Res F intake requirements because if not, the problem is just going to continue "as is" and may eventually compound itself to such an extent, that some Res F Units may not have enough personnel to even operate as a "Unit".

 

McG

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DAA said:
It appears that someone somewhere feels that the US Recruiting Model (Recruiting Stations and Processing Stations) is a suitable option for use here in Canada, so it appears that's what we are slowly moving towards.
Does a higher population density and larger military make that a more logical model for the US than perhaps it might be in Canada?
 

DAA

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MCG said:
Does a higher population density and larger military make that a more logical model for the US than perhaps it might be in Canada?

I believe the concept is being adopted based on the limited resources allocated to current recruiting efforts with the idea that we can sustain our intake numbers but with less personnel dedicated to the task, while being more efficient.  The reduction in the number of Recruiting Centres/Detachments and dedicated recruiting personnel all across Canada a few years back precipitated such a move and made such a concept look more appealing.

The US Model uses a wide "Attraction" network (ie; get them interested) and once they are ready to sign, everything was passed from the Recruiting Station, to the Regional/Area Processing Station who managed the process after that.  The problem being, is that here in Canada, we just don't have the personnel resources to effectively incorporate such a system for it to work effectively.  So now we are sort of doing this "piece-meal" style by reallocating responsibilities internally and it's just not working.

When you have less than 2% of your current personnel resources dedicated to maintaining the effective strength of your organization at an operational level, something is bound to give.  Keep in mind, that CAF Marketing does an awesome job at "attracting" people towards our organization and getting them to apply.  But we lose a good chunk of those applicants because they become disenchanted/disinterested with the job prospect as their processing drags out.
 

mariomike

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DAA said:
It appears that someone somewhere feels that the US Recruiting Model (Recruiting Stations and Processing Stations) is a suitable option for use here in Canada, so it appears that's what we are slowly moving towards.

I saw this ( 2008 ) film about the US Recruiting Model,
The Recruiter
"Uncle Sam really wants you! A compelling exploration of army recruitment in the United States told through the story of Louisiana Sergeant, First Class Clay Usie, one of the most successful recruiters in the history of the U.S. Army."
http://www.propellerfilms.com/recruiter/

One of every four high school graduates cannot pass the basic military entrance exam. Couple that with high obesity and rise of criminal records means there is a much lower chance of getting military recruits. Despite these obstacles recruitment numbers are hitting their marks. The economic crisis is giving way to more willing recruits and many of them have one of the key measures to join, a high school diploma. Still the ineligibility rates some military leaders say are, “a matter of national security.”

The hardships that come with being in the army begin to arise at basic training. One girl has a massive panic attack, while some of the boys try to fake being gay in order to be discharged under “don’t ask, don’t tell.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Recruiter_(2008_film)

Film Details Frustrations Of Army Recruiter
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92971946

Military Recruiting: Are We Passing The Test?
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/02/132592329/high-school-graduates-shut-out-of-military

Sgt. Usie took a personal interest in applicants. Going to their sporting events, etc. on his own time.

He was a Recruiter for ten years.


 

DAA

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Yup!  The Recruiters in the US are actively involved with the applicants on both the social and physical preparation side of the house prior to them actually signing on the dotted line but there's good reason for them to do this.  Individually assigned quota's.  Recruiting positions in the US are assigned based on career progression requirements and/or volunteering for a Recruiting Billet.  Assignment timelines vary (usually 3 years but it can be reduced) but each Recruiter is given a "quota" that must be met annually and their quota is only counted in their favour, if their applicant is successful all the way through to becoming occupation qualified.  Hence, they need to become actively involved and motivate the person to be successful in the chosen military career.

Here in Canada, it's a regular Posting (3-4 years) which now comes with additional benefits at annual Merit Boards (ie; counted the same as an Operational Tour).  Personnel are screened prior to be slotted into one of these positions.  Reg F Recruiters are effectively posted "out of trade" and now doing a form of staff duties, so there is the draw back of losing or falling behind on occupational knowledge in some instances.  Add on the Class B personnel who augment the Recruiting system and you have a wide variety of people, from all occupations, experiences and walks of life and you have an interesting mix, which is what is needed.  We don't have the luxury of independant Army, Air Force, Navy and Reserve Force Recruiting Detachments like our neighbours to the South.

20-30 years ago, a posting to a Recruiting job was sought after.  Hell, who wouldn't want to wear their uniform out in public, mix with Canada's youth, the local community, fly the flag and promote the CAF, that stuff is instilled into us.  Over time, society changed and also the CAF itself.  Recruiting became an easy dumping ground for CM's and a place to dispose of those who were less than spectacular at their jobs or considered admin burdens.  These days, things are slowly beginning to improve but like anything else in the CAF, you just need to wait for the Pendulum to swing in the proper direction.

The biggest draw back to a job like this.........is that you don't necessarily get the satisfaction of accomplishing anything.  Sure you do your job but once it's complete, the applicant is off to Basic and you will most likely never see them again. 
 

ueo

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Sorry, I haven't figured out how to quote a previous post. But recruiting was never, at least during the 90's, a dumping ground for the CMs. I resent the implication made, on a personal and professional level. Not just for myself but all others who were just slagged as well as all the recruits we brought in despite the tall forehead meddling and change predicated by a senior officer's visit to the States resultant in our system of today. (1 or more years to process!). :rage:
 

TCM621

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ueo said:
Sorry, I haven't figured out how to quote a previous post. But recruiting was never, at least during the 90's, a dumping ground for the CMs. I resent the implication made, on a personal and professional level. Not just for myself but all others who were just slagged as well as all the recruits we brought in despite the tall forehead meddling and change predicated by a senior officer's visit to the States resultant in our system of today. (1 or more years to process!). :rage:
It's not always a dumping ground just like the schools aren't always dumping grounds. But the fact remains that it is somewhere to put someone you can't get rid of but is ineffective in their regular job for one reason or another.

Also the 90s was a long, long time ago. At least in my experience, recruiting worked back then so maybe it was due in part to higher quality people.

Things may have changed since I was involved in reserve recruiting but it was basically a disaster on every level. We had no ability to speed up the process, it was 100% under the control of the CFRG Det . Allocation was done based on unit size ie. more recruits for bigger units. This meant bigger units kept getting bigger and small units couldn't grow. The reserves were seen as a second task behind reg force recruitment so reserve files seemed to be pushed back if short staffed or busy. And this was in addition to all the other issues that affect everyone.
 

dapaterson

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You're confounding different issues.  Quotas are set by the Army, not by CFRG.
 

DAA

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ueo said:
Sorry, I haven't figured out how to quote a previous post. But recruiting was never, at least during the 90's, a dumping ground for the CMs. I resent the implication made, on a personal and professional level. Not just for myself but all others who were just slagged as well as all the recruits we brought in despite the tall forehead meddling and change predicated by a senior officer's visit to the States resultant in our system of today. (1 or more years to process!). :rage:

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-canadian-militarys-woefully-inept-recruiting-system-blasted-in-stinging-report

"While the advisory board said the military is still attracting fine candidates, the length of time it takes to sign up “will not stand the CF in good stead with the Millennial generation.” It also says that the recruiting group is “all too often … an afterthought at best and at worst a dumping ground for lesser performers…

I'm not slagging anyone, merely stating the obvious which has already been reported on by the Defence Science Advisory Board within their 23-page report submitted to DND in 2013.  I don't think there was much if anything in the report that was refuted either.

Nevertheless, Recruiting still manages to maintain reasonable recruiting numbers for the Regular Force but even today, the Reserve Force still struggles with it's manning levels and that is even after the injection of a substantial number of "dedicated" Army Recruiters.
 

rnkelly

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From working at a Recruiting Centre for the last year I haven't seen any bias between RegF and PRes files.  If anything I see the PRes files go faster due to the hard work of the PRes recruiters and the abbreviated interview.  At our location the problem is a lack of PRes applicants which could be for a variety of reasons but primarily the PRes units' ability to attract applicants.  It also doesn't help that at any moment during the application process a PRes applicant can be re-oriented to RegF which is completely reasonable.

This is not to say that I think the system is ideal but the same factors delay many files, ie; limited medical personnel, pre-secures, admin errors etc.  Unfortunately these delays are even more glaring when it's for an applicant looking for a part-time position that may or may not be long term.

:2c: from a "lesser performer"

 

TCM621

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dapaterson said:
You're confounding different issues.  Quotas are set by the Army, not by CFRG.
Yes. Sorry, I should have made that clear.  But it is another issue with Pres recruiting.
 

Jarnhamar

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I think part of what hurts recruiting in the reserves now is that previously a recruiter from a reserve unit could go to a local high school,  college,  job fair,  public event and spend an allocated hour telling the audience how great the reserve unit,  all the things the regiment could do for them and why they should join That regiment. 

That changed and now,  unless it changed again,  reserve recruiters need to take that hour and talk about the reserves AND the reg force.  On top of that they have to talk about opportunities in the navy army and airforce.  Pretty hard to do with time constraints and easy to do all the ground work and have the person join another element.  The CF as a whole still gets a member but the reserve unit doesn't.
 

fruitflavor

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saw this on reddit
https://www.facebook.com/notes/canadian-army/news-release-36-canadian-brigade-group-commences-evaluation-of-primary-reserve-e/1157018384390138?qid=6359609950443658761&mf_story_key=5587047613818341922
December 2, 2016 – Halifax, N.S. – National Defence / 5th Canadian Division 
On December 1st 36 Canadian Brigade Group (36 CBG) commenced an evaluation of the Primary Reserve Expedited Enrollment Trial (PREET) for selected Army Reserve units in Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Western Newfoundland. 
The PREET evaluation will run from December 1st 2016 to March 31st 2017 and will utilize a modified process that aims to have applicants to the Army Reserve enrolled after two scheduled visits to the unit they seek to join. Once an applicant becomes a recruit, the remaining processing steps will take place concurrent with the initial recruit training.
Improving the recruiting process is a major priority for the Canadian Army (CA). In the coming years the CA will be undertaking a series of initiatives aimed at further strengthening the Primary Reserve, including the PREET. 

more in the link
 

Brasidas

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Heard the same thing yesterday, with CO saying that we would follow in the new year.

2 to 4 weeks from initial commitment to enroll to signing a Cl A paysheet.
 
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