First Aid / CPR training and certification

[kratz]

The MSFA does qualify you through SJA and is recognized by many areas outside of the CF.
Some examples that I am aware of include:
- Youth Organizations (Scouts, Guides, sports)
- National chain companies (Sport Check, Wal Mart, Zellers)

The AMFR course is also recognized outside of the CF.
Some examples that I am aware of include:
- Mississauga Fire Service
- NS’s Provincial Health Department First Responder program

Outside organizations are not bound to accept the MSFA - SJA certificate,
just as the CF does not accept outside training when one is on course.

 

[kratz]

** [CAUTION: Before replying to a post from the first 16 posts]**  This thread is revived to save search efforts WRT first aid.

refs: 1) CMP Instruction 11/06 – First Aid and Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation Training:
            SUPERCEDED by CMP XX/12
        2) CMP Instruction 02/05 – Automated External Defibrillator Usage:
            (http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/02-05-eng.asp)

So reference 1) is already pulled off the website in anticipation of CMP XX/12
I have a copy of CMP XX/12 in my hands, but they anticipate the draft will be approved within Jan 2012.

AED must be taught at all DND/CF courses (chapter 22, not the chapter 4 option).
-Units will need to purchase AED Trainers, from their own training budget. NOT funded by DND SC.
- There are  handful of companies with NSO (National Standing Orders) with DND.
- Average cost is $300 or less per AED Trainer, units will also need correct manikins
- Average cost is $134 or less per manikin.

- For a normal 18 student course, 5 AED trainers and manikins plus maintenance costs from the manufacture equals $4000, plus taxes, S&H. Bulk deals are available if they are pre-identified before the purchase.

- 5 Back Blows, then 5 chest compressions is now the conscious sever choking standard.

- Chopping up DVD videos in a lesson is the SJA standard.

- Contracting FAI skills out to SJA or another company is no longer approved.
- Buying books directly from SJA is no longer approved
- First Aid certificates for 100% of all DND/CF students will be printed and mailed out
by SJA National office, through DND Special Center, within 25 working days of receiving the course report.

- You can not start instructing the 2011 protocols without attending a military upgrade course.

- Those upgrades can not be offered until the books/DVD/Exams are available to be ordered.
Best case scenario – Feb 2012
Worst case scenario – Jun 2012

The “Take away” message from this seminar is to continue instructing the current FA program until the materials for the 2011 version is available. With no books in the system, you must reuse what you have.

This is not a comprehensive list of the discussions or topics covered over the national FAIT seminar. Rather, this is a heads up for FAIs and other FAITs for the way ahead. It also offers another venue for discussion if needed.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

** [CAUTION: Before replying to a post from the first 16 posts]**  This thread is revived to save search efforts WRT first aid.

refs: 1) CMP Instruction 11/06 – First Aid and Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation Training:
            SUPERCEDED by CMP XX/12
        2) CMP Instruction 02/05 – Automated External Defibrillator Usage:
            (http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/02-05-eng.asp)

So reference 1) is already pulled off the website in anticipation of CMP XX/12
I have a copy of CMP XX/12 in my hands, but they anticipate the draft will be approved within Jan 2012.

AED must be taught at all DND/CF courses (chapter 22, not the chapter 4 option).
-Units will need to purchase AED Trainers, from their own training budget. NOT funded by DND SC.
- There are  handful of companies with NSO (National Standing Orders) with DND.
- Average cost is $300 or less per AED Trainer, units will also need correct manikins
- Average cost is $134 or less per manikin.

- For a normal 18 student course, 5 AED trainers and manikins plus maintenance costs from the manufacture equals $4000, plus taxes, S&H. Bulk deals are available if they are pre-identified before the purchase.

- 5 Back Blows, then 5 chest compressions is now the conscious sever choking standard.

- Chopping up DVD videos in a lesson is the SJA standard.

- Contracting FAI skills out to SJA or another company is no longer approved.
- Buying books directly from SJA is no longer approved
- First Aid certificates for 100% of all DND/CF students will be printed and mailed out
by SJA National office, through DND Special Center, within 25 working days of receiving the course report.

- You can not start instructing the 2011 protocols without attending a military upgrade course.

- Those upgrades can not be offered until the books/DVD/Exams are available to be ordered.
Best case scenario – Feb 2012
Worst case scenario – Jun 2012

The “Take away” message from this seminar is to continue instructing the current FA program until the materials for the 2011 version is available. With no books in the system, you must reuse what you have.

This is not a comprehensive list of the discussions or topics covered over the national FAIT seminar. Rather, this is a heads up for FAIs and other FAITs for the way ahead. It also offers another venue for discussion if needed.

kratz can you send me a link to the source msg?

 

[medicineman]

Hmmmm - is that for adult??

MM

 

[medicineman]

I'm pretty sure I was awake for my CPR refresher a few months back and seem to remember that as well...if it's for an adult, do we tie their ankles together and hang them upside down to administer these back blows then punch them in the chest after?

MM

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm pretty sure I was awake for my CPR refresher a few months back and seem to remember that as well...if it's for an adult, do we tie their ankles together and hang them upside down to administer these back blows then punch them in the chest after?

MM

If we could do that, I probably wouldn't try dodge the FA\CPR refreshers. ;D

 

[dangerboy]

Now these guys are going to have to update their videos

http://vimeo.com/12204236?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Vimeo%2FAvatarNemo+%28AvatarNemo+%40+Vimeo%29

 

[medicineman]

I remember many moons ago doing my lifeguard training and when we were doing the choking stuff, you still had to landmark just off the navel and we were told that (at that time in fashion history) that ladies jeans were higher cut than men's, so just do a quick check with your finger uner the blet line to make sure you're in the right spot.  I had a female partner, quite nice on the eyes, who only heard  " put your hands under the belt line to look for the right spot", so shoved her hands right down my pants...

To be 16 again  >.

MM

 

[camouflauge]

Im having a hard time picturing this. If your giving back blows Im assuming the pt is still on their feet(even is they weren't)...how do switch back and forth between with chest compressions and back blows?

I'm thinking back blows is only for infant.

But I got curious too, is 5 backblows and 5 chest thrusts applicable for adults?

 

[kratz]

[quote author=NFLD Sapper]kratz can you send me a link to the source msg?[/quote]

CMP XX/12 is in draft at the moment and not released.
It is anticipated that it will be released in early Jan 2012.

Just like the last CMP simply introduced the requirment to instruct infant CPR, units were responsible
to purchase their own. The same intent will be in place for the AED-Trainers and appropriate AED manikins.

 

[kratz]

The 5 back blows, followed by 5 abdominal thrusts
are one of the many 2011 protocol changes from the current 2006 protocols.

Those back blows, follwed by abdominal thrusts are for conscious choking adult and children.
The skill will be demonstrated to you on course. (no tying of feet)  ;D

There is no change to infant choking.

 

[brihard]

I'm on my first aid instructor course right now. We were told today that the new protocols are expected to hit CF wide all at once, probably about September 2012. My source for this is an FAI trainer at CFSU(O) training cell.  I did a St John emergency first aid course recently for something else, and the new protocols had already been moved to.

 

[kratz]

The authority to instruct the 2011 protocols is already out.
The hold up is the ability to instruct those new protocols when the proper materials are not in the system yet.
Until then the current (read old) protocols will be instructed.

Once the books/DVDs ect... are available through Base Pubs / DND Special Centre
then the expectation for all FAI to be instructing the new protocols will be ensured by base / unit FAITs.

We were informed the best case timeline is currently Feb 2012 for the new materials.
The worst case timeline is looking out at June 2012.

 

[medicineman]

Luckily the next research won't be published until about 2015/16...where they'll go back to the 2005 guidelines, or maybe even earlier (like pre-1986).

MM

 

[kratz]

I know this is a necro-thread, but it's better to post this here than start a new discussion.

A new CMP Pers Instr 03/06 has been published Oct 4th, 2016 and supersedes the previous versions.
The updated Instruction has handful of subtle changes to the MFA program, example:
- Recommending PLQ or an IT course vice requiring it or not mentioning the topic at all, compared to previous Instr,
- The Steward trade is now listed in Annex A to receive HCP level CPR.

There is also a new course report out, available from DND Special Centre for First Aid.

 

[Misses muffett]

Hi,

Thanks for reading. Can civi St John Ambulance training be recognized in the CAF? The instructors we have are taught by St John Ambulance so, I don't see the difference. Anyone know for sure?bi need the qual. ASAP but no army run ones around.

Thanks so much

 

[kratz]

reference: CF Mil Pers Instr 03/16 : First Aid, Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation and Automated External Defibrillation Training

Short answer: No.

Full answer: DND has already paid SJA millions for the current first aid contract. When a unit CO does not follow the reference, and attempts to rely on local SJA to shore up the shortcomings, additional unit funds are wasted for a program that has already been paid for at the national level.
If a unit does not have a current military FAI or FAIT one can be brought in on TD or the member can be sent to a nearby unit offering a MBFA course.

 

[ModlrMike]

I'm not sure exactly what your asking, but if you want to know if your certificate would be the same thing, then I think yes.

That being said, I agree with the rest of what kratz wrote.

 

[Misses muffett]

I'm not looking for reimbursement. Just looking to ensure that the certificate will be accepted as standard.  Seems to be a misconception that I'm trying to clear up. Some say yay some say nay- seems like an old legend someone took and ran with standard first aid - should be the standard.

 

[Rheostatic]

If you don't already have the certification, then I agree with Kratz; you should go through the CAF to get the training.

If you already have the Standard First Aid certification and it's still valid, then yes you can have it recognized and added to your MPRR.