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France Burning

tomahawk6

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174686,00.html

Rioting is now spreading across France for its second week. The French police union is demanding the government call out the army to impose martial law. The reaction of Chirac and his government has been slow and ineffective. The Prime Minister intially called for a study to be completed by the end of the month meanwhile the rioting spread. Thirty police have been injured so far. Hundreds have been arrested. I doubt the government has the stomach to take hard action.
 
Naaa!  Send in the SF and Sniper Teams.  Any smart a$$ punk throwing fire bombs gets dropped on the spot.  Practice some quick shots on his friends too.  :mad:
 
2332Piper said:
Send in the Foreign Legion to 'fix' things, that'll end any more ideas these idiots have of carrying on the rioting.

Oh that's a smart solution. Why doesn't France just nuke itself - we don't need the wine and cheese anyway.

I like the excuse these youths have for starting the riots. IMHO, arrest them and then stick them on the first plane back to wherever they came from. I have little sympathy for those who burn the countries that let them in.

Send them back to where? They come from France - some are even third generation.

(edit to correct spelling/grammar)
 
Acorn said:
Oh that's a smart solution. Why doesn't France just nuke itself - we don't need the wine and cheese anyway.

I hope to you don't take yourself too seriously and your comment is just some immature sarcasm.  I've served with French forces and they are as good as we are, very good hosts, and treat us with respect.  The "freedom fries" thing down south may seem like a band wagon to jump upon but you might want to educate yourself before you jump aboard.  In my opinion your remarks border on asinine and do not reflect well upon military folks who share this site. :cdn:

 
you will find that most western democracies have great trepidation about the idea of calling out the military to get a horrible grip on the citzens.
Most countries that would do it quickly.... have a rather loose defenition for democracy.
Yes, France has problems. Over the years, as all the immigrants have been moving into the country, they have been directed/pushed into these suburban ghettos that are a dead end. No work, no hope, no respect.... I'm a little surprised that it didn't blow up before now.
 
SHF - I think you're the one taking yourself too seriously. Acorn was being sarcastic.

Relax
 
muskrat89 said:
SHF - I think you're the one taking yourself too seriously. Acorn was being sarcastic.
Relax
Yeah... But if it does come to France destructing itself with nukes, they must absolutely save the Bordeaux and Languedoc regions... and under no circumstances are they to threaten the Douro valley in Portugal !!!  ;) ;D
 
Jungle said:
Yeah... But if it does come to France destructing itself with nukes, they must absolutely save the Bordeaux and Languedoc regions... and under no circumstances are they to threaten the Douro valley in Portugal !!!    ;) ;D

Jungle imagine for a sec......alll the wine gone....no more.....not even a single drop...... :blotto: :brickwall:
 
Your using a Foxnews post on happening in France.  Come in no way is that the best source of news for what is there, they totally biased when it comes to France.  I remember watching Foxnews after the London bombing, and they had some crackpot on there, saying how this why he wanted France to the Olympic games in 2012.. because actually wanted bombing to happen there.  Even the CBC gives the tories better and fairer coverage.
 
geo said:
you will find that most western democracies have great trepidation about the idea of calling out the military to get a horrible grip on the citzens.
Most countries that would do it quickly.... have a rather loose defenition for democracy.
Yes, France has problems. Over the years, as all the immigrants have been moving into the country, they have been directed/pushed into these suburban ghettos that are a dead end. No work, no hope, no respect.... I'm a little surprised that it didn't blow up before now.
Ah yes. I see. France had it coming, eh? It's just despair boiling over, right? There are no other political asperations and/or statements being forwarded with this? Typical whitewashing.. these are not just any immigrants, are they? The French believe it is organized behavior and so do I. Most poor people don't start burning things down because they live paycheque to paycheque. I am well below the poverty line, myself. I don't get a whole lot of respect at work, and I have little hope of that changing in the near future.

I have yet to torch a car.

Perhaps there's a reason such people don't earn the respect they desire? I suspect it might have something to do with the kind of country they wish to change France into? The solution to this problem certainly isn't granting respect, hope and work to the people burning out schools and cars.
 
radiohead said:
Your using a Foxnews post on happening in France.  Come in no way is that the best source of news for what is there, they totally biased when it comes to France.  I remember watching Foxnews after the London bombing, and they had some crackpot on there, saying how this why he wanted France to the Olympic games in 2012.. because actually wanted bombing to happen there.  Even the CBC gives the tories better and fairer coverage.
Yeah, sure they do. Let's get a URL to the transcripts of that statement.
 
What you have here (in france) is a perfect example of immigration policies run amok.

Left leaning parties undertake to allow as many immigrants into a country as possible - and then tell them to keep this policy in effect, they will have to vote left! This is not a new idea - NY city politicians did it to the Irish as they stepped off the boat in the 1800s - handing out soup and handbills.

If western democracies are to be successful in maintaining the policies and institutions that made them bastions of wealth and power in the first place, they will have to attract far more immigrants willing to embrace them, as opposed to the "ghetto mentality" in which they only associate with their countrymen in racially homogenous neighborhoods. These are the areas that are such a problem in France right now.

IMO, the French should send a strong message that this behaviour will not be tolerated, and break the mobs with deadly force, followed by a wave of deportations. Fight fire with fire.
 
I 100% agree with GO!! on this, maybe a " those who participate tonight will be subjected to possible lethal weapons" annoucement and then a follow through is the only way to stop this....
 
GO!!! said:
What you have here (in france) is a perfect example of immigration policies run amok.

Left leaning parties undertake to allow as many immigrants into a country as possible - and then tell them to keep this policy in effect, they will have to vote left! This is not a new idea - NY city politicians did it to the Irish as they stepped off the boat in the 1800s - handing out soup and handbills.

If western democracies are to be successful in maintaining the policies and institutions that made them bastions of wealth and power in the first place, they will have to attract far more immigrants willing to embrace them, as opposed to the "ghetto mentality" in which they only associate with their countrymen in racially homogenous neighborhoods. These are the areas that are such a problem in France right now.

IMO, the French should send a strong message that this behaviour will not be tolerated, and break the mobs with deadly force, followed by a wave of deportations. Fight fire with fire.
There are many racially grouped areas in Canada, as well. It is common sense that when one moves to a different country it is likely that one would wish to be around familiarity. No one is forcing these people to live in groupings. As we can also see by the reports, it is not "racially" homogenous, but rather culturally homogenous neighbourhoods. We're missing a beat if we blame these events on seperation or as our new GG likes to term it "solitudes". The Amish are relatively poor, racially and culturally homogenous, yet they are not burning cars..

Poverty, unemployment, disrespect, "ghetto mentality".. these are all smokescreens. 
 
Dare said:
There are many racially grouped areas in Canada, as well. It is common sense that when one moves to a different country it is likely that one would wish to be around familiarity. No one is forcing these people to live in groupings. As we can also see by the reports, it is not "racially" homogenous, but rather culturally homogenous neighbourhoods. We're missing a beat if we blame these events on seperation or as our new GG likes to term it "solitudes". The Amish are relatively poor, racially and culturally homogenous, yet they are not burning cars..

Poverty, unemployment, disrespect, "ghetto mentality".. these are all smokescreens.  

Well, racially the rioters are certainly not European...though Northern Ireland and the Balkans are nothing to be proud of, it does appear that Muslims and Africans have a higher rate of violent crime as per statistics compared with Europeans. Culturally as well, they are very different which when added to the economic factors is enough to set things off.

Anybody that actually thinks these people should be "integrated" are missing the point. Minorities are a threat to the majority. France is right to not want these people ***** **** **** ****--but the solution was never letting them come to France in the first place--forget the imperial ties.

There are ethnic ghettos in Toronto I know for sure, based on race and/or ethnicity. Whether race-based or ethnic based, they bother me. We never voted for multiculturalism or open immigration so I'm glad our out of touch politicians are finally getting what they deserve--evidence of their bad decision-making.

France even gives immigrants new satellite TV, along with apartments, food, schooling. The immigrants animalistic behaviour is wholly their own responsibility.




MOD EDIT

Lets try and not say things like that. It serves no purpose other than to stereotype and generalize and makes tempers flare.
Slim
STAFF
 
Holy merde. Some of you people need a real dose of reality (yes, I'm from the Redundancy Department of Redundancy, I'm here to help).

In any case: I also have some respect for the French military - but the FFL is most definitely NOT the type of force one would want to use for ACP. And I'm a Scotch drinker. That wine crap is for girls.

Oh SHF, get a grip.

Piper, son, they come from France. They were born there, just as you were born in Canada and have Canadian citizenship by default. You've done nothing to earn that citizenship other than be the product of your parents' union (yeah, that probably grosses you out).

Finally, Dare, the "Ghetto Mentality" you speak of is a two way street. Like many countries in Europe the French needed workers after a couple of devastating wars. Of course those people weren't "French" (despite the addition of French North Africa as a Department of France and full citizenship for its residents). The bigotry runs deep there, as it does in Germany against Turk "guest workers." The fact that these people come from Muslim countries is coincidence, but a devestating coincidence. I doubt there is a coordinated plan, simply because one isn't needed. Even so, a very small group of agitators could take advantage of the situation - kind of like happens at hockey game riots or G7 meetings.
 
Acorn said:
Piper, son, they come from France. They were born there, just as you were born in Canada and have Canadian citizenship by default. You've done nothing to earn that citizenship other than be the product of your parents' union (yeah, that probably grosses you out).
When does treason dissolve citizenship?
Finally, Dare, the "Ghetto Mentality" you speak of is a two way street. Like many countries in Europe the French needed workers after a couple of devastating wars. Of course those people weren't "French" (despite the addition of French North Africa as a Department of France and full citizenship for its residents). The bigotry runs deep there, as it does in Germany against Turk "guest workers." The fact that these people come from Muslim countries is coincidence, but a devestating coincidence. I doubt there is a coordinated plan, simply because one isn't needed. Even so, a very small group of agitators could take advantage of the situation - kind of like happens at hockey game riots or G7 meetings.
This is not a very small group of "agitators" and they are being coordinated, as has been reported by every source I have found. As it stands to reason, such things do not happen en mass spontaniously. In fact, the French Justice Minister has stated they are coordinating their efforts. They are being encouraged and directed by Islamic militants. So perhaps, it's not entirely a coincidence.. and if it were so, where are the poor Catholic car bombers and poor Buddhist car bombers? Surely not all of the "ghetto" dwelling guest workers are Muslim..

And I do not speak of "ghetto mentality" other than to say it is a smokescreen for the true mentality.. which is, ultimately, subjugation. Bigotry? Well, it would seem that there is a genuine threat in amongst this particular group of immigrant bigots, indeed. Considering they are upgrading to rifles now, and after 1,300 burnt cars.. no sign of a decrease.. I wouldn't be surprised to see this spread amongst other European countries.

EDIT: Number correction.
 
Dare said:
When does treason dissolve citizenship?

Since when is rioting considered treason?   I didn't see the US filling boats up for Liberia following Watts, LA riots, or the latest breakdown of law and order in New Orleans.

Irregardless of who is committing these crimes, the "dirty Muslim" chanters (yes, I'm looking at you Daniel H) need to tone down the rhetoric - the quote about "opening your mouth and removing all doubt" comes to mind.   France has a longstanding relationship with Mahgrib Arabs - I believe (and someone can confirm/refute this) that Algeria was actually part of France (ie; not a separate colony) for about 100 years.   The reason for many poor Muslim Arabs living in France is beyond "multicultural dreamers with stupid immigration policies".

As well, from what news I've read, these youth are children of immigrants, which makes them French citizens full stop.   France cannot abscond from its responsibility by deporting people based upon their ancestry.   I'm second generation Canadian and I don't expect to be shot back to Denmark if I commit I crime.   Those that advocate treating these people any different from a Catholic Frank from Burgundy burning a bus and causing mayhem better re-examine their argument cause it stinks of "dirty Muslim" bias.

In general, my sentiments lie with GO!!! and Bruce - martial law and curfews; anyone causing a disturbance or breaking curfew will be detained and anyone resisting will be shot.   However, my only caution is to avoid giving the appearance of an "Intifada" - soldiers shooting youth will bring out mass crowds and garner support for the rabble rousers (despite the reasons why they were killed in the first place); this is how the First Intifada was successful and the Israelis were undone on the moral level.
 
Dare said:
This is not a very small group of "agitators" and they are being coordinated, as has been reported by every source I have found. As it stands to reason, such things do not happen en mass spontaniously. In fact, the French Justice Minister has stated they are coordinating their efforts.
As evidence of the coordination, I heard on the radio this morning that several kids that were arrested over the weekend told the cops that the riots would stop if Sarkozy (the Interior Minister) resigned.   Who knows if that would actually happen, but Sarkozy, de Villepin, and Chirac have shown themselves to be incompetent boobs over this affair.   Sarkozy and de Villepin's presidential ambitions are taking a big hit, and Chirac has cemented himself as a has-been.
They are being encouraged and directed by Islamic militants. So perhaps, it's not entirely a coincidence.. and if it were so, where are the poor Catholic car bombers and poor Buddhist car bombers? Surely not all of the "ghetto" dwelling guest workers are Muslim..
About three weeks ago, we had a group of science fair winners from Seine-St.Denis here at the office as part of a community outreach program.   The aim is to get the kids excited about a career in science and technology.   We had to cancel the lunch we had planned for the middle of the day, because 9 of the 10 students were observing Ramadan.   Obviously this is just anectodal evidence, but the poor areas where the riots are going on are fairly homogenous culturally- not too many Catholics or Buddhists.

And I do not speak of "ghetto mentality" other than to say it is a smokescreen for the true mentality.. which is, ultimately, subjugation. Bigotry? Well, it would seem that there is a genuine threat in amongst this particular group of immigrant bigots, indeed. Considering they are upgrading to rifles now, and after 1,300 burnt cars.. no sign of a decrease.. I wouldn't be surprised to see this spread amongst other European countries.
I would be quite surprised to see this spread to other European countries.   France has a long, proud tradition of civil unrest (we have one-day strikes here quite frequently for no reason), and unrest that turns violent- going all the way back to 1789.   The last unrest that turned this riotous was probably 1968, but there have been smaller riots since then.   For the last couple of New Year's Eves, there have been riots on the Champs Elysées.   Torching cars has been a New Year's tradition in Strasbourg for about 5 years, and has spread to other parts of the country.   Other European countries aren't quite so enthusiastic about their civil unrest, and are unlikely to follow suit.   Of the people that I've talked to about this issue, ex-pats are generally appalled at the violence, Europeans are generally bemused at the situation, and the French tend to chuckle at the lunkheads who burn down their own schools.

EDIT: I've just read that there have been small copycat car-torchings in Brussels, Berlin, and Bremen.  Colour me surprised.  Still, I doubt that the level of violence outside of France will come anywhere near the level inside...
 
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