Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Remius]

So I saw a news clip that had four OC Transpo wreckers (white/red/yellow) and one black wrecker (assuming this is a contracted rig), so it’s reasonable to assume that Ottawa has a number of wrecker operators and if the city had chosen to not use its own assets in the end with minor augmentation from outside, then it would seem reasonable to expect those city employees to operate any commandeered equipment. Your point about needing to be trained to operate them is valid, but I don’t think on the other hand you can dismiss trained city staff.

Not dismissing city staff that are qualified to operate. I don’t know what the current maintenance vehicle fleet for the city of Ottawa looks like in terms of numbers. I’m guessing the numbers were not nearly enough do deal with something this big,

As for commandeering vehicles, does the CC allow for an LEO who has commandeered a vehicle to then direct a civilian to operate it under that condition?

 

[Remius]

I apologize I thought we were talking about the trucks down town.

Yeah, I think that any of the trucks that could be moved by driving were actually moved by police. I saw something about police moving vehicles using the keys of detained drivers.

 

[Altair]

Speaking of trucks, the ottawa mayor is pissed and wants the towed trucks sold to help pay for policing costs.

Thats going to hurt if it sticks.

 

[brihard]

Purely for the sake of insertion of facts- a large number of the trucks left at the 11th hour and 59th minute as it was clear that police were moving and that those trucks would very soon be forfeit. This includes most that had been specifically parked so as to greatly hinder removal of themselves and others. Wellington was very nearly fully cleared by midnight last night. The situation changed rapidly and unexpectedly in a way that was favourable to the clearing of physical obstacles. All of this could be seen from the live cameras streaming on the web. Trucks were starting up and leaving within 25m of the front line of advancing police- not necessarily the most comfortable tactical situation, as most were facing eastbound… It also appears that for most of the trucks that remained, they were operable and keys were recovered by authorities.

Had the bulk of those trucks stayed, or even had a few stayed in such a way as to block the rest in, the need for heavy wreckers may have been an order of magnitude greater.

 

[Good2Golf]

Not dismissing city staff that are qualified to operate. I don’t know what the current maintenance vehicle fleet for the city of Ottawa looks like in terms of numbers. I’m guessing the numbers were not nearly enough do deal with something this big,

As for commandeering vehicles, does the CC allow for an LEO who has commandeered a vehicle to then direct a civilian to operate it under that condition?

I drive by their Industrial Rd. yard from time to time and they have a very respectable sized fleet of wreckers…I’d guess at least 8-10 large 40-50t wreckers. It is not an insignificantly-sized fleet.

I haven’t review s.129 case law, and am not a legal professional so I don’t know about about compelling an operator to use their own vehicle, but reading s.129, if a PC ordered an operator to tow a vehicle, I could see that being within the law.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Sell vehicles towed during protest to cover city's costs, says Watson​

The mayor of Ottawa says the Emergencies Act gives them the power to sell the seized trucks.

Why not? It worked for Canada when under the War Measures act Japanese Canadian assets were seized and sold.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Sell vehicles towed during protest to cover city's costs, says Watson​

The mayor of Ottawa says the Emergencies Act gives them the power to sell the seized trucks.

Why not? It worked for Canada when under the War Measures act Japanese Canadian assets were seized and sold.

So now we're going to compare the plight of those protesters to a race, that no matter if you weren't guilty of anything illegal, were treated like war criminals??

 

[Good2Golf]

How about we let that kind of action actually go through the courts to determine merit, not just push it through under the EA…

Watson is the last person that we should be listening to at this point. He’s so tone-deaf and blind to his own crappy performance in this whole mess….and other leadership fiascos like the SNC Lavelin-LRT debacle. I can’t wait to see what self-aggrandizing retirement clap-trap he’ll be spouting leading up to the municipal elections…

Edit to add:

Watson also said Saturday that independent reviews, already planned on both the federal and municipal levels, are needed to see how the protest spiralled out of control and how to stop similar occupations from happening again.

"You can't come to Ottawa anymore and shut down our city for four weeks," he said.

Are you fucking kidding, Watson?!?

How about looking in a mirror!!!

The greatest amount of leadership in this whole thing was shown by a 22-year old student, FFS!

 

[Remius]

Sell vehicles towed during protest to cover city's costs, says Watson​

The mayor of Ottawa says the Emergencies Act gives them the power to sell the seized trucks.

Why not? It worked for Canada when under the War Measures act Japanese Canadian assets were seized and sold.

The protesters certainly used a lot of holocaust comparisons in regards to their plight. I’m sure the Japanese internement camp and seizures will be the next one.

Can the mayor actually do that? I think the mayor is just all talk at this point when it comes to this, he wants to look tough and look like he’s doing something now.

I wouldn’t be shocked though if a lot of the truckers would not be able to pay for the costs of getting their vehicles back and if the civil case goes though that they get handed over. Or that you see them at the next police auction or the GC Surplus site.

 

[Remius]

How about we let that kind of action actually go through the courts to determine merit, not just push it through under the EA…

Watson is the last person that we should be listening to at this point. He’s so tone-deaf and blind to his own crappy performance in this whole mess….and other leadership fiascos like the SNC Lavelin-LRT debacle. I can’t weight to see what self-aggrandizing retirement clap-trap he’ll be spouting leading up to the municipal elections…

Like I said. Watson is just trying to look tough and look like he’s doing something after having done very little.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The protesters certainly used a lot of holocaust comparisons in regards to their plight. I’m sure the Japanese internement camp and seizures will be the next one ...

Everyone's a "political" prisoner unless one disagrees with said prisoner's politics ....

 

[Haggis]

As for commandeering vehicles, does the CC allow for an LEO who has commandeered a vehicle to then direct a civilian to operate it under that condition?

Under the Canada Labour Code, the operator could refuse unsafe work if they felt sufficiently threatened and could articulate why the police could not guarantee their safety for the entirety of the task (e.g. from the point of tow to the impound yard to their shop, all billable distance and time).

Some civilian tow truck operators removed their company names from their vehicles for the task. My son is a heavy truck mechanic in Ottawa and was able to recognize them on the news nonetheless. I suppose the protesters could have, too.

Also, I recall that the OPP have a number of officers trained in heavy recovery. My son was looking into combining his mechanic's ticket with a career in policing.

 

[Jarnhamar]

So now we're going to compare the plight of those protesters to a race, that no matter if you weren't guilty of anything illegal, were treated like war criminals??

I'm comparing the Emergencies Act to War Measures act due to the mayor saying citizens property should be seized and sold under the authority of the EA.

 

[mariomike]

KINSELLA: Protesters changed Canada — but not in the ways they expected or wanted

KINSELLA: Protestors changed Canada — but not in the ways they expected or wanted

torontosun.com

I do not agree / disagree with the opinion. Just posting it for reference to the discussion, in case anyone might be interested in reading it.

The poll and its methodology is here,

• https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1645151885613/Shaken+to+the+core+18+02+22.pdf

What got my attention was the statistics.

• Nearly 70% of Canadians support Trudeau invoking the Emergencies Act.
• 82% say there is “no way” the Ottawa occupation should have gone on this long.
• A majority — 54% — say they are now “ashamed to be a Canadian” because of the politicians who allowed the situation to get out of hand.
• Many more than that, 71%, say we are “an international embarrassment” because of the convoy truckers occupation.
• Nearly 70% of all Canadians feel that any politicians who supported the occupation — Tory federal interim leader Candice Bergen and leadership frontrunner Pierre Poilievre, take note — “should be voted out of office.”
• Similarly, almost 60% said that any provincial premier who lowered COVID restrictions “caved” to the those who effectively held Ottawa hostage for three weeks.
• A third of Canadians now actually favour using violence to protect fundamental Canadian values.
• An incredible number — 70% — wanted the truckers cleared out of Ottawa, if necessary using violence “or worse.”

 

[Jarnhamar]

I’m sure the Japanese internement camp and seizures will be the next one.

If they have their property seized by the child of the war measures act for some kind of "safety" excuse? I can see it.

Can the mayor actually do that?

Last month I would have laughed at someone suggesting Canadians would have their bank accounts frozen based off of analytics from the CBC.
Now I wouldn't be surprised at what can be done via the EA.

People were confused at how and why it took 4 weeks to do anything about the protests Ottawa protests. Then confused at why the EA was the only solution. I think it's pretty easy to connect the dots.

 

[lenaitch]

I drive by their Industrial Rd. yard from time to time and they have a very respectable sized fleet of wreckers…I’d guess at least 8-10 large 40-50t wreckers. It is not an insignificantly-sized fleet.

I haven’t review s.129 case law, and am not a legal professional so I don’t know about about compelling an operator to use their own vehicle, but reading s.129, if a PC ordered an operator to tow a vehicle, I could see that being within the law.

Not a lawyer, but I have a bit of a concern with S. 129 being relied on in a scenario such as this. Whether a court would interpret "arresting a person or in preserving the peace" applied to what is essentially a mop-up operation is unclear to me.

As Brihard explained, they had to plan for the worst case scenario. Statements that protesters were willing to dig had to be taken at face value. A driver locked in their cab 6' above the ground would be real fun to tactically remove and w/o the keys, brakes have to be caged, driveshafts removed etc. Multiple times.

I could be wrong but I think OC Transpo might be unique because of their network of dedicated busways. I'm not even sure the TTC or GO Transit have their own heavy wreckers.

 

[Jarnhamar]

• An incredible number — 70% — wanted the truckers cleared out of Ottawa, if necessary using violence “or worse.”

What's worse than using violence? Going after their families and friends?

 

[Altair]

KINSELLA: Protesters changed Canada — but not in the ways they expected or wanted

KINSELLA: Protestors changed Canada — but not in the ways they expected or wanted

torontosun.com

I do not agree / disagree with the opinion. Just posting it for reference to the discussion in case anyone might be interested in reading it.

The poll and its methodology is here,

• https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1645151885613/Shaken+to+the+core+18+02+22.pdf

What got my attention was the statistics.

• Nearly 70% of Canadians support Trudeau invoking the Emergencies Act.
• 82% say there is “no way” the Ottawa occupation should have gone on this long.
• A majority — 54% — say they are now “ashamed to be a Canadian” because of the politicians who allowed the situation to get out of hand.
• Many more than that, 71%, say we are “an international embarrassment” because of the convoy truckers occupation.
• Nearly 70% of all Canadians feel that any politicians who supported the occupation — Tory federal interim leader Candice Bergen and leadership frontrunner Pierre Poilievre, take note — “should be voted out of office.”
• Similarly, almost 60% said that any provincial premier who lowered COVID restrictions “caved” to the those who effectively held Ottawa hostage for three weeks.
• A third of Canadians now actually favour using violence to protect fundamental Canadian values.
• An incredible number — 70% — wanted the truckers cleared out of Ottawa, if necessary using violence “or worse.”

Yeah, politically this was a win.

From what i see on places like reddit, people are pissed the PM didnt use the EA sooner.

 

[mariomike]

What's worse than using violence? Going after their families and friends?

From the article:

QUOTE

All surprising, perhaps. All depressing, certainly. There are two findings, however, which deserve special attention. They are frankly stunning.

• A third of Canadians now actually favour using violence to protect fundamental Canadian values.
• An incredible number — 70% — wanted the truckers cleared out of Ottawa, if necessary using violence “or worse.”

“Or worse.” What is worse than violence? What is worse than 70% of Canadians saying that?

END QUOTE

 

[QV]

Follow the money.

The WEF infiltration of Ottawa has never been a secret, nor has Butts’ involvement. But it is far from being common knowledge among voters that the ideological model behind the Liberal policy machine, the steering mechanism that guides decisions and policies, is subversive and authoritarian. It also covers a massive policy territory, from climate to COVID-19.

Klaus Schwab was maybe the first global personality to jump on the pandemic as a vehicle for the imposition of his new world order. As a result of the COVID-19 crisis, he saw major opportunity. “The possibilities for change and the resulting new order are now unlimited and only bound by our imagination.”

Terence Corcoran: In Canada, follow the money + the ideas

Uprising a sign of new voter awareness

financialpost.com