Depends on specific legislation. For example criminal code offences should be fair game to any police force. Provincial Offences would be something different. It's not like the Dukes of Hazzard where you just need to outrun Rusco and Enos to the county line.
Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]
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Hazard county had one hell of a vehicle budget.
lenaitch
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Generally the same. So-called 'hot pursuit' empowers police to continue to exercise their authority outside of the jurisdiction if the stated conditions are met. Keep in mind that we don't have the equivalent of federal and state-level criminal law.
The Criminal Code makes no reference to jurisdiction when it defines 'peace officer', but it is the legislation that makes you one that is important. Police officers in Ontario (and I will assume all other provinces) have authority province-wide by virtue of the provincial legislation that empowers them. RCMP are empowered nation-wide by virtue of the federal RCMP Act.
The issue of the SQ playing last week in Ottawa is interesting, and I started reading a paper online about it then got distracted. I assume that the regulation (order) under the Emergencies Act covered it. There is an Ontario statute called the Interprovincial Policing Act (and assuming corresponding statutes in QC and MB) that allows members to be designation in neighbouring provinces, but it is member-specific. This was enacted to solve problems with members in areas such as surveillance and drug enforcement regularly flipping across the border. There is also a procedure in the Criminal Code for that but it is really clunky. Back in the '70s before these changes, when I was in N/W Ontario, it was not uncommon to be in Manitoba and nobody seemed to care but times change. Actually, to get to one FNT, one had to go into MB.
What RCMP members are generally not in Ontario is designated as Provincial Offences Officers for provincial statutes. Similarly, OPP members are not empowered to enforce municipal bylaws unless it is expressly included in a municipal contract. These seem to have been covered off in the emergency order, although at the end of day it probably mattered little.
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Hypocrisy is corrosive to the rule of law.
Do Peace Officers enforce the law? Or do they keep the Peace?
Which is more important?
Caledonia? Railway Blockades?
Highway 6 bypass in Caledonia closed amid solidarity demonstration - Hamilton | Globalnews.ca
A social media post from the 1492 Land Back Lane campaign said the Highway 6 bypass was blocked in solidarity with a dispute in B.C.
globalnews.ca
I'm pretty sure that decision is made by elected officials.
I'm guessing you are referring to the Emergencies Act. So the Toronto Sun posted an article claiming this, but I think that they misunderstood the regulations that they are quoting (which was put in place this month). I believe the misunderstanding comes from exceptions to who is exempt from being prohibited from entering Canada. This is the actual regulation, found in the Canada Gazztte.
Canada Gazette, Part 2, Volume 156, Number 1: Emergency Measures Regulations
February 15, 2022, Part 2, Volume 156, Number 1, Canada Gazette
Brad Sallows
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If it's sensible to use emergency powers to deal with a problem, it must be much more sensible to spin up emergency powers in case something might crop up.
“We understood absolutely that we do not want to trigger an election. That would be the worst thing to do in this crisis,” said Singh in a press conference (here).
He's got a lot of reasons for wanting to avoid an election. Not sure that denying now is a good time for "the people" to weigh in is a good one.
“We understood absolutely that we do not want to trigger an election. That would be the worst thing to do in this crisis,” said Singh in a press conference (here).
He's got a lot of reasons for wanting to avoid an election. Not sure that denying now is a good time for "the people" to weigh in is a good one.
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You never know when it might come in handy.
Altair
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Same way they did last time protestors tried to go to quebec city, or when they tried to go to toronto.
Those local police said hell no and didnt let them set up.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
lenaitch
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If so, Brian Lilley clearly can't read.I'm guessing you are referring to the Emergencies Act. So the Toronto Sun posted an article claiming this, but I think that they misunderstood the regulations that they are quoting (which was put in place this month). I believe the misunderstanding comes from exceptions to who is exempt from being prohibited from entering Canada. This is the actual regulation, found in the Canada Gazztte.
Canada Gazette, Part 2, Volume 156, Number 1: Emergency Measures Regulations
February 15, 2022, Part 2, Volume 156, Number 1, Canada Gazettecanadagazette.gc.ca
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Just to clarify for me.
The emergencies act is enacted and in force but must be passed by Parliament after the fact?
The above includes the Senate as well?
The above votes will be considered confidence votes in the government?
The emergencies act is enacted and in force but must be passed by Parliament after the fact?
The above includes the Senate as well?
The above votes will be considered confidence votes in the government?
lenaitch
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The way I understand things:
1. A 'motion of confirmation' to the declaration of a public order emergency must be debated by Parliament. The Act doesn't say what happens if the motion fails. The actual authorities and powers under the Act are in a Regulation, which is the sole purview of the Governor in Council (Cabinet).
2. Yes, although the Senate is limited in what it can do, particularly to motions. Delay mostly. 'Parliament' includes both the House of Commons and the Senate.
3. I believe that, with some exceptions, for a motion to be a matter of confidence it has to be declared in the motion itself. I'm trying to get into the Hansard website but it is acting up on me.
Much later edit: This is the text of the motion from Hansard for Feb 17:
moved:
That, pursuant to section 58 of the Emergencies Act, this House confirms the declaration of a public order emergency proclaimed on February 14, 2022.
And from this on matters of confidence:
What constitutes a question of confidence in the government varies with the circumstances. Confidence is not a matter of parliamentary procedure, nor is it something on which the Speaker can be asked to rule. [5] It is generally acknowledged, however, that confidence motions may be: [6]
- explicitly worded motions which state, in express terms, that the House has, or has not, confidence in the government;
- motions expressly declared by the government to be questions of confidence;
- implicit motions of confidence, that is, motions traditionally deemed to be questions of confidence, such as motions for the granting of Supply (although not necessarily an individual item of Supply [7] ), motions concerning the budgetary policy of the government [8] and motions respecting the Address in Reply to the Speech from the Throne.
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An interesting discussion about police being potentially overtasked...the 'google' answer to how many police officers there were in Canada in 2019 is 68,718. According to Google in the same set of search results, there are 30,092 active RCMP personnel, of which there are about 19,000 police officers.
I'll observe that the RCMP appears to have been tasked to the point (based on open source info) that they were even using members of their Musical Ride for front line response.
Toronto sent in their horses.
If there were multiple protests nationally, in each of the major cities in Canada, how many police would be needed to effectively respond and quell them?
I have no idea what the 'personpower' required to clean up Ottawa was, but it seems like 100 checkpoints, with 5 people at each of them would be 500. Ottawa has (again google) 1,480 police officers- so just to staff those checkpoints in a rotating 12 on 12 off shift would require almost 2/3 of the police in Ottawa, leaving 480 on a rotating shift (12 on, 12 off) to cover the entire rest of the city.
I suspect that level of effort is difficult to sustain, and yes, there probably would be problems dealing with a multiple city blockade situation.
I'll observe that the RCMP appears to have been tasked to the point (based on open source info) that they were even using members of their Musical Ride for front line response.
Toronto sent in their horses.
If there were multiple protests nationally, in each of the major cities in Canada, how many police would be needed to effectively respond and quell them?
I have no idea what the 'personpower' required to clean up Ottawa was, but it seems like 100 checkpoints, with 5 people at each of them would be 500. Ottawa has (again google) 1,480 police officers- so just to staff those checkpoints in a rotating 12 on 12 off shift would require almost 2/3 of the police in Ottawa, leaving 480 on a rotating shift (12 on, 12 off) to cover the entire rest of the city.
I suspect that level of effort is difficult to sustain, and yes, there probably would be problems dealing with a multiple city blockade situation.
daftandbarmy
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The effort required to control an urban area the size of even a small town is astronomical, depending on the scale and duration of violence breaking out, and is never really discussed in connection with MACP scenarios, at least during the few TEWT type scenarios I've been involved in with the CAF.
As the Police are no doubt experiencing, it's a tremendously exhausting and resource intensive type of operation.
A town the size of Ottawa would probably require a Brigade sized formation, at least, to maintain any kind of effective 24/7 troop presence in support of Police agencies.
OldSolduer
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We seemed to have reached a point where protest is a [I]carte blanche[/I], hypocrisy is the boring norm, and the rule of law is rhetoric.I love this quote because its true. Left wing heads exploded over the `
Freedom Convoy but it seems the willful destruction of LNG property, the assault on LNG workers and the ambush of police is OK and in fact encouraged in some places. Either the laws are enforced or we are in deep shit. No one is above the law, and that was stated by Medecino but in my crayon eating pea brain it seems there are rules for some but not others.
Booter
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Most of your post is interesting- except re:musical ride members. That’s not unusual. We pull like that for operations quite often- since there isn’t a full time public order disturbance there isn’t a full time Public order unit if that makes sense.
For conversation sake List of countries and dependencies by number of police officers - Wikipedia
Canadian police are overtasked- lots of it created by police managers.
It may seem like a farce some days- but Canada is policed by permission.
OldSolduer
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There`s the issue. Too many
managers aka good idea fairies.
Booter
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It keeps us from making headway on issues like mental health etc. a cops a Swiss Army knife for all social ills. Which means no one is served best- no matter intentions.
Need an air Marshall? Better find a cop.
Mental health advocate? Better find a cop.
Horse shows in the summer? Needs a cop.
Parenting skills? Better get a cop.
School talk? Cop
Spontaneous respond to violent event? Cop
Need a drivers licence tester in Nunavut? Cop.
Out of inspectors under the transport regulations? Not to worry! Despite no training the rcmp officers can do that too!
Need an air Marshall? Better find a cop.
Mental health advocate? Better find a cop.
Horse shows in the summer? Needs a cop.
Parenting skills? Better get a cop.
School talk? Cop
Spontaneous respond to violent event? Cop
Need a drivers licence tester in Nunavut? Cop.
Out of inspectors under the transport regulations? Not to worry! Despite no training the rcmp officers can do that too!
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The theory is that enforcing the law and keeping the peace are supposed to be synonymous...
Which is always a neath theory until humans get involved.
Down here depending on State, sworn officers have a Duty of Care to Act when they see certain types of activity even IF off-duty.
Dealing with indigenous groups tends to get management in a tizzy.Caledonia? Railway Blockades?
Highway 6 bypass in Caledonia closed amid solidarity demonstration - Hamilton | Globalnews.ca
A social media post from the 1492 Land Back Lane campaign said the Highway 6 bypass was blocked in solidarity with a dispute in B.C.
I'm pretty sure that decision is made by elected officials.
Clearly a car crew by itself isn't going to solve it - which then goes up the flagpole
The Kevin solution is to roll up with an ERT BearCat and give them the option to disperse, then give them the count of 5 (5 minutes), and disperse them, by the minimum amount of force required to do so in a manner that ensures public order and strives to accommodate the safety of the public.
Frankly it's the same solution I would have used in Ottawa for the truckers (regardless of my opinion of the origin of the convoy FWIW)
It works against groups like MS-13, and OMG's - because they know you aren't going to back down, and they are going to lose - and lose badly.
As soon as you start treating groups differently - you get a two tiered Law Enforcement situation going - that is corrosive as fuck to a democratic state - and leads to really really bad things.
Jesus no. The Musical Ride were not front line. All of the formed bodies of police pushing the lines forward were from public order units comprised of volunteers from their respective services who put their day jobs aside and gear up when needed.
There are a few thousand Mounties in Ottawa. Some are operational, particularly the protective services and a few criminal investigative units. The rest are HQ or odds and sods. Imagine if CAF needed mass bodies to fill sandbags, and Carling was tipped on its side and tapped vigorously til the policy, doctrine, strategic, and administrative units all tumbled out. That’s basically what happened in Ottawa. A lot of sworn police officers working behind desks but still subject to service requirements were jammed into their uniforms with duty gear and sent out to man checkpoints, do foot patrols in secured areas, take handoff of arrestees from the front line, hold newly built fences overnight, etc. a few Musical Ride members likely deployed in these augmented capacities. Same deal with lots of bodies from OPP and OPS. Some had minor encounters with protesters, but this was generally in the context of protesters coming to them at a blocking position or checkpoint, and if it got silly, either a quick response team or a public order unit would be sent out.
The commitment of resources was incredible. Anyone perusing the media coverage would see shoulder patches from Ottawa, OPP, RCMP, Sureté du Québec, Toronto, Peel, York, Durham, Sudbury, Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver. Bear in mind that a sustained push through downtown wind tunnels in -20 with squalls requires frequent relief and rotation of troops. You need reserves and QRFs. The sheer size of the geography as the secured footprint expanded necessitated a lot of people. And much of this was done in the phase of profound uncertainty about whether their resolve would match their rhetoric, and whether threats (both those known and communicated to the public, and others that weren’t) would materialize. Fortunately they largely did not, though it’s bloody uncomfortable when a semi tractor starts up and revs its engine right in front of and facing dozens of police…
Ultimately, it was done safely, methodically and, I think, resoundingly professionally. Nothing involving thousands of police will be pretty or perfect, but this went as well as it realistically could have. I think many of the protesters genuinely did not believe the police would forcibly clear Wellington and downtown, or that trucks would be breached and seized. A great many protesters were screaming at police to help them forcibly usurp the elected government and, in particular, to forcibly remove the PM. I think the overwhelming force that was finally deployed paid off in that it deterred stupidity and violence that the crowd definitely could have brought, and that more than a few of them were sufficiently motivated for.
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