Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[QV]

Hold your horses - some of us public servants didn't have the opportunity to "work" from home. Add to that about 1500 of us were housing people that should not be on the streets - no matter what the JHS says.

Your brush was pretty broad.

It’s not my brush. I’m pointing out that while the private sector got shut down, the public service did not regardless if they were working on site or sitting at home waiting for their DVPNI to be bought, imaged, and issued. Ottawa public servants complaining about the honking are unlikely to get sympathy from people who couldn’t work for months and had to rely on CERB.

When someone states the convoy had “no sympathy for the real people affected by this”… my point is that goes both ways.

 

[brihard]

It’s not my brush. I’m pointing out that while the private sector got shut down, the public service did not regardless if they were working on site or sitting at home waiting for their DVPNI to be bought, imaged, and issued. Ottawa public servants complaining about the honking are unlikely to get sympathy from people who couldn’t work for months and had to rely on CERB.

When someone states the convoy had “no sympathy for the real people affected by this”… my point is that goes both ways.

And again, the majority of residents affected by the convoy were not public servants, and those who are generally have nothing to do with government policy. That’s not the demographics of that area of town. It’s super clear you know frig all about the character of downtown, centretown, and lowertown Ottawa. You’ve been deliberately ignoring this every time it’s pointed out to you.

 

[Remius]

And again, the majority of residents affected by the convoy were not public servants, and those who are generally have nothing to do with government policy. That’s not the demographics of that area of town. It’s super clear you know frig all about the character of downtown, centretown, and lowertown Ottawa. You’ve been deliberately ignoring this every time it’s pointed out to you.

I can’t believe we have to keep explaining that. Over and over and over.

 

[brihard]

I can’t believe we have to keep explaining that. Over and over and over.

Right? It’s like “no, you fools, we live in the suburbs. Downtown is full of students and service sector wage workers.” One public servant gets a lawsuit going and they act like downtown Ottawa is full of the luxury apartments of mid to upper level Parliamentary apparatchiks who spend the day figuring out how to screw Western Canada before hitting the evening cocktail party circuit.

It’s ignorance, and it’s been wilful ignorance since at least April.

 

[OldSolduer]

Right? It’s like “no, you fools, we live in the suburbs. Downtown is full of students and service sector wage workers.” One public servant gets a lawsuit going and they act like downtown Ottawa is full of the luxury apartments of mid to upper level Parliamentary apparatchiks who spend the day figuring out how to screw Western Canada before hitting the evening cocktail party circuit.

It’s ignorance, and it’s been wilful ignorance since at least April.

I have been in downtown Ottawa a few times and yes the people live right there - real close to Parliament and the War Memorial.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Right? It’s like “no, you fools, we live in the suburbs. Downtown is full of students and service sector wage workers.” One public servant gets a lawsuit going and they act like downtown Ottawa is full of the luxury apartments of mid to upper level Parliamentary apparatchiks who spend the day figuring out how to screw Western Canada before hitting the evening cocktail party circuit.

It’s ignorance, and it’s been wilful ignorance since at least April.

This is what we all really want to see in downtown Ottawa

 

[QV]

And again, the majority of residents affected by the convoy were not public servants, and those who are generally have nothing to do with government policy. That’s not the demographics of that area of town. It’s super clear you know frig all about the character of downtown, centretown, and lowertown Ottawa. You’ve been deliberately ignoring this every time it’s pointed out to you.

I'm referring to two things here. The government employees testifying at the hearing and the ridings in Ottawa that were swept by the LPC in the last election. Until those two groups start caring about anyone other than themselves, likely no great majority will care about them and the phantom honking either.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I'm referring to two things here. The government employees testifying at the hearing and the ridings in Ottawa that were swept by the LPC in the last election. Until those two groups start caring about anyone other than themselves, likely no great majority will care about them and the phantom honking either.

You will generally find caring about other people's concern very rapidly gets overshadowed by 24/7 horns blaring at 120 dB, or being unable to drive down your street. A lot of people were sympathetic to the issue but their assclown behaviour still wasn't acceptable.

Most people that live right downtown aren't government employees anyway though, and the convoy shut down a lot of small businesses for weeks, putting the people that work there out of work.

But don't let facts enter into your firmly held, unshakeable opinion on something you experienced second/third hand.

 

[Spencer100]

The same can be said by those harmed by mandates and lockdowns.

I guess if we were to take a poll, there would be far less sympathy for public servants who still got paid during the whole fiasco.

Bingo

 

[QV]

There are fallacies in your post. The convoy didn't shut any businesses down. The city/police did (for covid reasons or presumably to deny services to the convoy). The convoy participants were happy to utilize the services in the surrounding area and some businesses had huge profits until forced to close. Plenty of reporting on this outside of the MSM.

My opinion is this: Trudeau invoked the EA without meeting the legal threshold and it was anecdotally obvious throughout. It's looking more and more like that is true.

What's funny is I also suggested compassion should go both ways and that triggers a few of you.

 

[Navy_Pete]

There are fallacies in your post. The convoy didn't shut any businesses down. The city/police did (for covid reasons or presumably to deny services to the convoy). The convoy participants were happy to utilize the services in the surrounding area and some businesses had huge profits until forced to close. Plenty of reporting on this outside of the MSM.

My opinion is this: Trudeau invoked the EA without meeting the legal threshold and it was anecdotally obvious throughout. It's looking more and more like that is true.

What's funny is I also suggested compassion should go both ways and that triggers a few of you.

My point, which you seem to entirely ignore, is that people lose sympathy for you if you sit screaming in their faces.

Compassion does go both ways, but when I'm sitting at home and some assclown is speeding around my neighbourhood honking continuously I frankly don't care what their problem is. Similarly shutting down key choke points in the roads and impacting ambulance/fire fighter response times is also a piss off for us that live here. I don't really care what your alternative media says, there were a lot of people behaving like absolute assholes.

At the time of the convoy, masking was still in effect, with fines for businesses that didn't abide by them. Rather than have their employees yelled at or physically assaulted by out of town assholes, a lot of businesses voluntarily shut down their businesses for their safety/unwillingness to get fined, not the police.

 

[brihard]

There are fallacies in your post. The convoy didn't shut any businesses down. The city/police did (for covid reasons or presumably to deny services to the convoy). The convoy participants were happy to utilize the services in the surrounding area and some businesses had huge profits until forced to close. Plenty of reporting on this outside of the MSM.

My opinion is this: Trudeau invoked the EA without meeting the legal threshold and it was anecdotally obvious throughout. It's looking more and more like that is true.

What's funny is I also suggested compassion should go both ways and that triggers a few of you.

You’re utterly unacquainted with facts on this matter. The Rideau Centre alone was 175 business and closed at the discretion of the owners because police were unable to maintain public order within the mall.

CF Rideau Centre will remain closed as 'Freedom Convoy' protest continues in downtown Ottawa

Cadillac Fairview said in a statement that authorities "cannot provide any assurances that it is safe" to open the Rideau Centre amid the "Freedom Convoy" protest against COVID-19 mandates.

beta.ctvnews.ca

Many other businesses in the downtown core had to close for similar safety reasons. Customers and staff were getting harassed by convoy protesters.

Trucker protest forces downtown Ottawa businesses to stay closed as COVID restrictions ease | Globalnews.ca

Businesses in Ottawa's downtown core who were getting ready to reopen after Ontario's COVID-19 lockdown, have had to stay closed due to the ongoing protest downtown.

globalnews.ca

Please stop making things up. You aren’t even good at it.

 

[QV]

My point, which you seem to entirely ignore, is that people lose sympathy for you if you sit screaming in their faces.

Compassion does go both ways, but when I'm sitting at home and some assclown is speeding around my neighbourhood honking continuously I frankly don't care what their problem is. Similarly shutting down key choke points in the roads and impacting ambulance/fire fighter response times is also a piss off for us that live here. I don't really care what your alternative media says, there were a lot of people behaving like absolute assholes.

At the time of the convoy, masking was still in effect, with fines for businesses that didn't abide by them. Rather than have their employees yelled at or physically assaulted by out of town assholes, a lot of businesses voluntarily shut down their businesses for their safety/unwillingness to get fined, not the police.

Screaming in faces... the convoy was just screaming in the faces of the residents the whole time? Wildly exaggerated on your part.

There was testimony from city officials that blocked fire/ambulance response didn't happen... they even used an example during the hearing.

"Voluntarily shut down their businesses for their safety/unwillingness to get fined"... ok, so who would do the fining? Testimony also provided evidence that violence was simply non-existent for such a large protest and the duration.

 

[QV]

You’re utterly unacquainted with facts on this matter. The Rideau Centre alone was 175 business and closed at the discretion of the owners because police worthy were unable to maintain public order within the mall.

CF Rideau Centre will remain closed as 'Freedom Convoy' protest continues in downtown Ottawa

Cadillac Fairview said in a statement that authorities "cannot provide any assurances that it is safe" to open the Rideau Centre amid the "Freedom Convoy" protest against COVID-19 mandates.

beta.ctvnews.ca

Many other businesses in the downtown core had to close for similar safety reasons. Customers and staff were getting harassed by convoy protesters.

Trucker protest forces downtown Ottawa businesses to stay closed as COVID restrictions ease | Globalnews.ca

Businesses in Ottawa's downtown core who were getting ready to reopen after Ontario's COVID-19 lockdown, have had to stay closed due to the ongoing protest downtown.

globalnews.ca

Please stop making things up. You aren’t even good at it.

Brihard, I suspect if the commission finds the EA enactment lawful, "gleeful" wouldn't be a stretch to describe how you'd feel.

If you read the first link you provided, they closed the mall because they weren't sure they could keep people safe. Not because of any real act of violence. Oh, and some people weren't wearing masks.

Your second link, again no violence at all. Biggest crime was unmasked people. They closed businesses to discourage people from coming to the downtown core "staff and customers were barred from the area".

Seems to me much of this was self-inflicted by the city/police/ and media spin. This is all weak as fuck.

Can you tell me again about the grave national security threat justifying the successor to the War Measures Act?

 

[Brad Sallows]

This stuff is all just classic class war, dressed up with a pandemic facade. Bosses vs workers. The wrinkle is that the old "left vanguard" (artists, intellectuals, aristocrats, etc) started openly despising the workers some time ago, and the worker faction has found a new home with upstarts on the right.

The institutions of the state will necessarily, in the absence of complete revolution, be aligned with the bosses. That still leaves a lot of room for people to ask whether they are upholding order or revenge, and to modify the spirit of obedience accordingly.

 

[daftandbarmy]

This stuff is all just classic class war, dressed up with a pandemic facade. Bosses vs workers. The wrinkle is that the old "left vanguard" (artists, intellectuals, aristocrats, etc) started openly despising the workers some time ago, and the worker faction has found a new home with upstarts on the right.

The institutions of the state will necessarily, in the absence of complete revolution, be aligned with the bosses. That still leaves a lot of room for people to ask whether they are upholding order or revenge, and to modify the spirit of obedience accordingly.

 

[mariomike]

I don't really care what your alternative media says, there were a lot of people behaving like absolute assholes.

From what I saw on TV, they seemed to be experiencing an elated feeling of empowerment over others. Like it was something they were entitled to.

 

[OldSolduer]

As I said in another thread the LPC is petty and vindictive. Heads will roll before the next election

 

[brihard]

Brihard, I suspect if the commission finds the EA enactment lawful, "gleeful" wouldn't be a stretch to describe how you'd feel.

If you read the first link you provided, they closed the mall because they weren't sure they could keep people safe. Not because of any real act of violence. Oh, and some people weren't wearing masks.

Your second link, again no violence at all. Biggest crime was unmasked people. They closed businesses to discourage people from coming to the downtown core "staff and customers were barred from the area".

Seems to me much of this was self-inflicted by the city/police/ and media spin. This is all weak as fuck.

Can you tell me again about the grave national security threat justifying the successor to the War Measures Act?

Wrong. The EA was, so far as I can tell, irrelevant to the role I personally played in the whole thing. If the commission finds it to have been justified, or not, I’ll accept either decision without preference. I’m simply sad either way that what happened in my city happened. It’s not to me to justify the EA; I have no dog in that fight and I remain open minded to either outcome and interested in the results of the judicial inquiry.

In any case, you’re changing the subject and moving the goalposts. Your claim was, and I quote, “The convoy didn't shut any businesses down. The city/police did (for covid reasons or presumably to deny services to the convoy).”

That was disingenuous, and then doubling down on it once you were corrected on it crossed into blatant dishonestly. You being committed to a lie doesn’t make it not a lie.

The management of the Rideau Centre shut it down because they were unable to safely remain open during the convoy protests. I presented just a couple public domain articles, but this is something our city lived and that many of us experienced firsthand. The Rideau Centre is simply the one biggest example, but there were a great many. Exceptionally few people were interested in shopping or dining in areas where they may be subject to hearing damage. Many businesses could not safely open because of the excess noise in the area. Noise levels were measured and were dangerous; that’s not conducive to good business. Protesters engaged in rampant harassment of individuals who chose to wear masks. We have members of this site who experienced that personally. Protesters physically blockaded a number of blocks of the city. Emergency vehicles could not get through if needed. These were not circumstances in which many businesses could safely remain open.

A bunch of us lived this while you just watched gleefully from Alberta. Please stop lying about what happened in this city.

 

[QV]

It's impossible to have a discussion about anything when people throw around ignorant and baseless accusations of lying.