Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]
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Altair
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Welcome to representative democracy.
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- The current population of Canada is 38,270,858 as of Monday, February 7, 2022, based on Worldometer elaboration of the latest United Nations data.
I don't know what our count of illegal queue jumpers is, I doubt anyone does including government does.
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Welcome to peaceful protest...
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Well, according to the deep-state Elections Canada, 27.4 million of all those people could have voted in 2019 (out of a population of about 35.2M), so easy come, easy go, especially given people don't bring up the smaller numbers when a party they agree with wins
But you ARE right about stretching a bit & absolutism.I think a better question could be: Who should Canada negotiate with? The guys who said "let's stop honkin' a bit" during which honkin' continued? Even sending envoys out to have "not really talk" talks might have trouble finding people who can sway enough of the protest crowd to make things change.
Just like with the Occupy stuff way back when (or at least it seems way back when), hard to get an amorphous, decentralized gang to stop doing stuff when there may be almost as many motivations as there are participants, with different bits wanting slightly different things.
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People are trying to report things, but can't get through the phone lines. People are trying to report hate crimes but can't get through the hate crime hotline either. OPS is deliberately not arresting people until later to avoid antagonizing the crowd. It's anecdotal because the OPS isn't doing anything and isn't resourced for the surge, so not really sure where you expect stats to come from, but there are about a 100 cases under investigation with a dozen or so active hate crime related investigations. But the anecdotes include people getting called racial slurs, assaulted, and having someone bang on their door and crap on their porch because of a pride flag, so all pretty serious things.
The sound level downtown has been measured in the 120-150 dB range over sustained periods for over a week solid (with no break overnight). That's similar to a battlefield condition, just because some assclowns won't stop honking their horns. Even with ear protection that is deafening, and try sleeping or living around that. Construction sites would be shut down, rock concerts would have the power pulled etc. I don' think asking the protestors to not be inconsiderate goofs is a big deal, but they have had to go to court because so far no one else is doing FA.
This is a giant self goal; most people would agree that we need to come up with something sustainable, and agree with the concept that the mandates need to wind down, but these arseholes are behaving so badly it doesn't matter and they are now actively counter productive. I didn't agree with the BLM occupations either for the same reason.
daftandbarmy
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Dumb question from a non-LEO guy, but can't the police just throw a cordon around these people and restrict access to 'resources' as a way to gain greater compliance, or something like that?
Ottawa police chief wants staffing boost as protesters continue to refuel convoy
Police chief tells reporters he needs 1,800 more officers, civilians to 'turn up the heat'
Halifax Tar
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Were any seats in the Ottawa area Con or in weak Liberal positions before this protest ?
Federal or Provincial.
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Police bosses have given the order. Police on the ground have been recorded watching jerry cans go by, at the same time the Chief was announcing it again at a press conference.
Halifax Tar
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Do you mean police are being insubordinate ? Or am I reading you wrong ?
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From the livestream I saw, they seem confused about what is and isn't allowed.
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In the incident I saw (and only a short piece of it) it appeared to be a single constable in a cruiser, and a much larger group carrying mostly empty Jerry cans.
Orders without the ability to enforce.
Orders without the ability to enforce.
OPS has some serious internal issues that pre date this. I won’t comment on that as I can’t confirm if that’s the case right now. When I have time speak to a few I know I’ll have a better picture.
Altair
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I don't mind peaceful protest, but I don't think for a second that these protestors are owed anything in regards to a political response.
If I gathered 10,000 people in trucks to occupy a city and demanded that Canada switch to PR, would the government be forced to meet with me and negotiate?
Would the government be forced to meet me in the middle?
Would my 10,000 people be enough to influence government more than the results of 17m canadians voting?
The obvious answer is no.
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Well, according to the deep-state Elections Canada, 27.4 million of all those people could have voted in 2019 (out of a population of about 35.2M), so easy come, easy go, especially given people don't bring up the smaller numbers when a party they agree with wins
I'm not sure if you're attempting a jab with the "deep state" comment, but the point I was making is using raw numbers like Altair was is a silly game.
I've said it multiple times in this thread already, and I'll summarize it again. People are starting to feel as though the government doesn't represent them, and actively ignores them. That is not how a democracy is supposed to work, regardless of whether or not the government has the legal authority to act as they please. It's about leadership, and there has been a lack of it at all levels of government for some time.
Altair
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If people don't have enough concentrated support to
A) Win the most seats in parliament
B)Win a significant amount of seats in parliament
C)Win any seats in parliament
Then it is fair to conclude they do not have enough widespread support to have government hear them.
This protest is most in line with the PPC and the PPC didn't do any of the above. Why should the government listen to PPC voters?
Carleton is the only CPC a seat in the area. Off hand. I’m not sure how close most ridings were. Pierre Polievre is the MP.
Blackadder1916
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Protest . . . yes. Is this non-violent protest . . . arguably yes. Is this "peaceful" protest . . . arguably not. Is this civil disobedience (I include that because it was described/alluded to as such earlier in thread) . . . definitely not. Is this lawful . . . the right to protest should be enshrined in the basic rights of all, but as the most effective protests invariably break laws (and not just those laws aimed at stifling mobs), then the individual actions of protestors at the most effective public demonstrations are often breaking the law. Should they be held to account for their law breaking - definitely yes. Their punishment . . . left to the courts, because that's how the system is supposed to work even if that punishment (or non-punishment) takes into account their justification for protesting.
And full disclosure, even though most already may assume that I have a progressive bent, I have participated in demonstrations that elicited a much more robust police response than demonstrated by the recent OPS action (or inaction). But my "radical" phase was over half a century ago.
Halifax Tar
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I would imagine he's pretty safe in his seat.
I would imagine this isn't costing any seats then. Pissing off lefties who were never going to swayed. Meah.
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