Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I have long said that you could fund the CAF to 4 percent of GDP, but we would still lag behind in NATO and be much the same where we are.

It's never the money, it's politics. It's procedures. It's the pork-barreling in our defence spending that makes us a paper tiger in NATO.

My only hope in all of this for the CAF and the GoC, whatever the political stripe that may be, is that it will rouse them out of the "Peace Dividend" slumber. The world has been unstable since 1945. We have used geography, proximity, and association as a Defence Policy ever since. ICBMs don't care how close to the U.S. or how far from Russia/China we are.

Don't give us a dime more, but let us spend money on defence like it matters. The fact we follow the same rules for purchasing a fighter aircraft as we do for buying office furniture for a Service Canada office is disgraceful. Don't treat defense procurement as a stimulus package for Canadian Industry. There I said it.

We spend so much money, time, and effort trying to get that money to stay in Canada; be it by awarding contracts to companies with no capability to produce items without first "retooling" and"developing the production lines", or by hamstringing perfectly competent and competitive bidders by forcing the project to be made in St. Margaret de Poutain de Champignon, QC because the ruling government either lost the seat in the election, or won it with promises.

We spend so much money and staff hours jumping through TBS regulations that are great for other departments, but are terrible for defence procurement. Some items you have to sole source, because there are technologies and capabilities no one else makes. By doing the bid process, you get companies clamoring for a project they can't deliver on, but because they tick the bright boxes on the score sheet....

I truly and honestly belief we need to split from PSPC and legislate that its not beholden to TBS, only to the PBO/PCO. The guiding principles of this new Defence Procurement department should be "Off the shelf, from somewhere else" if there isn't an industry in Canada.

BOOTFORGEN has demonstrated how well we do when we are able to actually get what we need, instead of lining the pockets of a Canadian company that got lucky.

That, but with tanks, fighters, ships, weapons systems....

 

[Good2Golf]

Yeah, primary time actually in the vehicle, Aircraft etc. vice travel then dismount, would be good justification for the C8. I’m glad I had a C8 bombing around in a LandCruiser…I don’t think I even extended the butt-stock once during my tour.

 

[TacticalTea]

That was my take as well.

Kinda shows we have the wrong government for the job...

Just like our southern neighbour had the wrong government for the job in 2020...

It's like we're all eternally cursed or something.

 

[TacticalTea]

Only because it has evolved that way. Other than "quarantine" (federal) and "hospitals" (provincial), anything else to do with healthcare is not mentioned at all in the Constitution. As in most things, it's complicated:

The Federal Role in Health and Health Care

lop.parl.ca

To get around the perennial 'just give us the money and we'll spend how we like', I saw one analysis (which of course I can't find now) that suggested the feds may go with paying for dental services directly. If I was a dentist and aware of the massive successes of platforms like Phoenix, I'd be a little concerned.

Pharmacare in terms of a single buyer makes a lot of sense to me, simply from the perspective of buying power.. Regardless, for both, the devil will be in the details.

To my point:

Legault warns new Liberal-NDP alliance will trigger confrontation with provinces

I much prefer Charest's (and, logically, Bernier's) approach of respecting the Provinces and their competences.

Federation. The socialists ought to be reminded of what that means.

 

[Altair]

To my point:

Legault warns new Liberal-NDP alliance will trigger confrontation with provinces

I much prefer Charest's (and, logically, Bernier's) approach of respecting the Provinces and their competences.

Federation. The socialists ought to be reminded of what that means.

I like how some are coming out swinging at the NDP now.

Most times they are ignored because they are not the governing party or opposition, but people are no longer keeping their powder dry.

If QC wants to opt out of federal programs, they are free to. Ontario hasn't signed on to the federal childcare plan, they are just going to sacrifice the money on the table for it. So opt out, and keep your jurisdiction, just don't expect a penny.

 

[MilEME09]

Canada would need to spend up to $25B more per year to meet NATO defence target: PBO

Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux estimates Canada would need to set aside between $20 to 25 billion per year to meet NATO's defence spending target.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[dimsum]

Canada would need to spend up to $25B more per year to meet NATO defence target: PBO

Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux estimates Canada would need to set aside between $20 to 25 billion per year to meet NATO's defence spending target.

www.ctvnews.ca

This is not what I would have expected from the NDP:

Meanwhile, NDP foreign affairs critic Heather McPherson said the issue of Canada’s declining military resourcing is both longstanding and nonpartisan.

“We have seen our military be decimated over [the] long-term. This is not something that has just happened. We have not provided the tools that our soldiers, our men and women in uniform, need to do the jobs that we're asking them to do safely,” she said.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Canada would need to spend up to $25B more per year to meet NATO defence target: PBO

Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux estimates Canada would need to set aside between $20 to 25 billion per year to meet NATO's defence spending target.

www.ctvnews.ca

Here’s my chequebook and pen, how much do I write out for my share.

 

[Czech_pivo]

This is not what I would have expected from the NDP:

Kind of hard for them to say otherwise when their Socialist brothers and sisters in the Nordic countries and Germany are stepping up to the plate and funding/expending their military.

 

[TacticalTea]

I like how some are coming out swinging at the NDP now.

Most times they are ignored because they are not the governing party or opposition, but people are no longer keeping their powder dry.

If QC wants to opt out of federal programs, they are free to. Ontario hasn't signed on to the federal childcare plan, they are just going to sacrifice the money on the table for it. So opt out, and keep your jurisdiction, just don't expect a penny.

No, that is an outrageous way of conducting business.
If a province opts out, it should get all the money that would've otherwise gone to the program.

Again. We are not a unitary republic. The federal government is not the provinces' superior.

As for the NDP... They're usually ignored because they knowingly present ridiculous ideas that have no chance of being implemented. I like to call that the advantage of irresponsibility: parties that have never held (or have no near-term prospects of holding) executive power can afford to make outlandish promises because they know they'll never be taken to task on those promises. And also because, having never held power, they don't really know how to do the job.

 

[Altair]

No, that is an outrageous way of conducting business.
If a province opts out, it should get all the money that would've otherwise gone to the program.

Except that is absolutely ridiculous. Imagine provinces opting out of the universal health care and pocketing the change? That would be on par with this. Why ever sign on with a federal program when they could just get a payout instead?

Again. We are not a unitary republic. The federal government is not the provinces' superior.

If the province doesn't want dental coverage, they can opt out. Then the leadership of that province can explain why every other Canadian has dental coverage and not them. But they should not see a penny of the funding that was allocated to that program.

As for the NDP... They're usually ignored because they knowingly present ridiculous ideas that have no chance of being implemented. I like to call that the advantage of irresponsibility: parties that have never held (or have no near-term prospects of holding) executive power can afford to make outlandish promises because they know they'll never be taken to task on those promises. And also because, having never held power, they don't really know how to do the job.

Absolutely true. Its just funny to me how they always get a pass because nobody takes them seriously to suddenly everyone taking them very very seriously.

 

[Brad Sallows]

A weakness of the NDP is their desire to sometimes "do something", which is difficult without the means.

 

[TacticalTea]

Except that is absolutely ridiculous. Imagine provinces opting out of the universal health care and pocketing the change? That would be on par with this. Why ever sign on with a federal program when they could just get a payout instead?

Seems entirely acceptable to me. It's that province's problem if they don't want universal healthcare. Most of the time, there actually is a compensation available in case the province opts out of a program. In this case, it's a provincial competence, according to the Supreme Court, as per Section 92 of the Constitution, granting authority to the provinces over issues of local or private nature.

I don't see why the feds should have any say in this. They should focus on doing what they were created for: collective defence and interprovincial trade. Those two pillars of our constitutional history are as important today as they ever were.

 

[Good2Golf]

Except that is absolutely ridiculous. Imagine provinces opting out of the universal health care and pocketing the change? That would be on par with this. Why ever sign on with a federal program when they could just get a payout instead?

Yeah!!! You tell him, Altair! No opting out for any province!!!

And not just child care plans, but all plans…like…say…the federal pension plan.

 

[Altair]

Seems entirely acceptable to me. It's that province's problem if they don't want universal healthcare. Most of the time, there actually is a compensation available in case the province opts out of a program. In this case, it's a provincial competence, according to the Supreme Court, as per Section 92 of the Constitution, granting authority to the provinces over issues of local or private nature.

Except those same Provinces come cap in hand asking for more and more money for health transfers for their area of responsibility, Healthcare.

And Canadians expect the federal government to do things outside their jurisdiction all the time, in regards to things like healthcare, and housing, once being provincial, the other municipal. And federal politicians get stuck taking the blame all the same.

I don't see why the feds should have any say in this. They should focus on doing what they were created for: collective defence and interprovincial trade. Those two pillars of our constitutional history are as important today as they ever were.

The feds have their priorities, and if the province wants to get the service they can join in the program. Or not. Ontario hasn't signed on the the federal childcare plan. That's fine. Their money for 2021-2022 lapses in April and they wont receive a penny of that years money.

Provinces can work with the feds or they wont see the money. Or they can raise their own money and run their own programs.

 

[Altair]

Yeah!!! You tell him, Altair! No opting out for any province!!!

And not just child care plans, but all plans…like…say…the federal pension plan.

Provinces can opt out all they want.

Just don't expect to see money the feds have allocated for that program.

 

[TacticalTea]

Except those same Provinces come cap in hand asking for more and more money for health transfers for their area of responsibility, Healthcare.

And Canadians expect the federal government to do things outside their jurisdiction all the time, in regards to things like healthcare, and housing, once being provincial, the other municipal. And federal politicians get stuck taking the blame all the same.

The feds have their priorities, and if the province wants to get the service they can join in the program. Or not. Ontario hasn't signed on the the federal childcare plan. That's fine. Their money for 2021-2022 lapses in April and they wont receive a penny of that years money.

Provinces can work with the feds or they wont see the money. Or they can raise their own money and run their own programs.

Nah, fam.

If the federal govt has enough money to run or fund provincial programs, then it needs to reduce taxes or increase equalization. That's what it did for Quebec, in fact. Quebeccers pay almost no federal income tax, but much more to the provincial government.

If Canadians blame the federal for their own province's shortcomings... welp... that's on them for not understanding how their country works.

 

[Altair]

Nah, fam.

Ya Fam.

Toronto, Canada and Global Breaking News – CP24

Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24

www.cp24.com

In a statement provided to CP24 on Tuesday, a spokesperson for Federal Minister of Families, Children and Social Development Karina Gould confirmed that Ontario “submitted a first draft of its action plan” on how it intends to disperse the funds late last week, allowing for “negotiations to move to the next phase.”

The development comes as the March 31 end of the fiscal year fast approaches.

Federal officials have told CTV News Toronto that more than a billion dollars of the funding promised to Ontario was intended for the 2021-2022 fiscal year and could “lapse” if a deal isn’t reached by the end of this month.

Lapse. Not compensated, lapse. Not lowered taxes for Ontario, lapsed.

So provinces can opt out all they want. Let their funding lapse.

If the federal govt has enough money to run or fund provincial programs, then it needs to reduce taxes or increase equalization. That's what it did for Quebec, in fact. Quebeccers pay almost no federal income tax, but much more to the provincial government.

The provinces certainly think the feds have enough money to fund THEIR healthcare jurisdiction. Treating the federal government like a money tree, shaking it down for loose billions they think the feds have hanging aboot.

No strings of course, just free money. Shame its not how it works. The feds give the money, they can attach strings to it. Harper found this out the hard way when he gave Quebec a few hundred million for equalization and Quebec turned around and gave a their citizens a tax break.

If Canadians blame the federal for their own province's shortcomings... welp... that's on them for not understanding how their country works.

Except thats not how it works at the ballot box.

 

[TacticalTea]

Ya Fam.

Toronto, Canada and Global Breaking News – CP24

Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24

www.cp24.com

Lapse. Not compensated, lapse. Not lowered taxes for Ontario, lapsed.

So provinces can opt out all they want. Let their funding lapse.

The provinces certainly think the feds have enough money to fund THEIR healthcare jurisdiction. Treating the federal government like a money tree, shaking it down for loose billions they think the feds have hanging aboot.

No strings of course, just free money. Shame its not how it works. The feds give the money, they can attach strings to it.

Except thats not how it works at the ballot box.

Sure. If that's your view. I think it just goes to show the federal Left has no respect for provinces, their competence, and federalism.

This is not what I would have expected from the NDP:

Going back on to the topic of the thread, though, what a ridiculous headline? And really, she had to ask Mr Giroux - an expert from the PBO - to do a basic crossed product?
I would like to think Canadians are smart enough to execute ''GDP in billions'' * 2%... Not any harder than calculating tips for your haircut...

 

[Altair]

Sure. If that's your view. I think it just goes to show the federal Left has no respect for provinces, their competence, and federalism.

At the end of the day, I think that if the federal government is funding a program, that money shouldn't be taken and spent on something else. Then we end up with a hodgepodge of programs across the country.

This province has universal health care, this one doesn't. This province has childcare, this one doesn't. This province has legal weed, this one doesn't. Having a federal standard is not a bad thing, especially if the feds are funding it. If a province never signs on to a federal plan(looking at Alberta and Quebec here) and just dump that money into other things we don't end up with equal levels of services across the country, which is also in the constitution and the basis behind equalization.

To go back to the topic of the thread, though, what a ridiculous headline? And really, she had to ask Mr Oliphant to do a basic crossed product?
I would like to think Canadians are smart enough to execute ''GDP in billions'' * 2%... Not any harder than calculating tips for your haircut...

Do people even know what our GDP is?

That said, I hate our budgets. I like pie charts. if not pie charts, lines of income and expenses. Not a word salad of priorities and plans. Just tell me how much is being spent on what. I was trying to nail down the RCMP budget a while ago and it took me 29 minutes longer than it should have.

 

[TacticalTea]

At the end of the day, I think that if the federal government is funding a program, that money shouldn't be taken and spent on something else. Then we end up with a hodgepodge of programs across the country.

This province has universal health care, this one doesn't. This province has childcare, this one doesn't. This province has legal weed, this one doesn't. Having a federal standard is not a bad thing, especially if the feds are funding it. If a province never signs on to a federal plan(looking at Alberta and Quebec here) and just dump that money into other things we don't end up with equal levels of services across the country, which is also in the constitution and the basis behind equalization.

To determine what should be federal and what should be provincial, refer to Section 92 of the constitution...

Do people even know what our GDP is?

I don't. But google does. It's literally one click. ''Canada GDP''. Bam. Move the decimal point twice to the left then double the amount. Bam. Now you know what our defence budget should be.