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Haitian leaders must all agree before Canada would lead a potential military intervention, Trudeau says

U.S. has suggested Canada could lead a multinational force in Haiti

Dylan Robertson · The Canadian Press · Posted: Nov 20, 2022 1:27 PM ET

A potential Canadian military intervention in Haiti can't happen unless all political parties in the troubled nation agree to it, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Sunday.

Speaking from Tunisia on the final day of the two-day Francophonie summit, Trudeau announced $16.5 million to help stabilize Haiti, where gangs are strangling access to fuel and critical supplies amid a worsening cholera outbreak.

About half the money is going toward humanitarian aid, and some of the rest is intended to help weed out corruption and prosecute gender-based violence.

But Haiti's government has asked for an international military intervention to combat gangs who have strangled access to fuel and critical supplies in the middle of the outbreak.

The United States wants Canada to lead any military intervention.

Trudeau said Sunday that Canada is working with CARICOM, the organization of Caribbean governments, along with "various actors in Haiti from all different political parties" to get a consensus on how the international community can help.

"It is not enough for Haiti's government to ask for it," he said. "There needs to be a consensus across political parties in Haiti before we can move forward on more significant steps."

He did not rule out eventually establishing a Canadian military mission on the ground in Haiti.

"Canada is very open to playing an important role, but we must have a Haitian consensus," Trudeau said in French.

New sanctions on prominent former officials
A Global Affairs Canada assessment team sent to Haiti to establish some understanding of what is happening and what could help has already returned and provided a report at meetings Trudeau said he attended.

He said the response is complicated because many "political elites" and "oligarchs" in Haiti have used the country's humanitarian crises "to enrich themselves on the backs of the Haitian people."

"So that is why our approach now is not about doing what one political party or the government wants," Trudeau said. "It's calling for a level of consensus and coherence from all actors in Haiti to call for solutions that we can actually get behind and lead on as an international community."

On Saturday Canada expanded its economic sanctions freezing the Canadian assets of Haitian political elites to now include former president Michel Martelly and former prime ministers Laurent Lamothe and Jean-Henry Ceant.

Foreign Affairs Minister Melanie Joly accused the trio of helping gangs undermine Haiti's current government and called on international partners to follow Canada's lead.

"Our goal is to make sure that these people that are profiting from the violence, that are part of a corrupted system, are facing accountability," she said.

Haitian Foreign Affairs Minister Jean Victor Geneus said the new sanctions put real consequences on those causing a "nightmare" in his country.

"These sanctions will have a dissuasive impact," he said in French, while seated between Trudeau and Joly.

Geneus said gangs are raping women and girls, preventing children from attending school and not letting sick people through roadblocks when they seek medical treatment. That means refugees are leaving for neighbouring islands.

"If the necessary conditions for safety are not re-established in a fast and urgent manner, a humanitarian catastrophe is possible in Haiti," he said in French.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-haiti-intervention-sanctions-1.6658254
 

Halifax Tar

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Some Haitians aren't keen on more foreign intervention, so I assume that Trudeau's intervention criteria couldn't be met anyways:

To some Haitians, another foreign military force would be “greatest humiliation”​

The Haitian government’s request for international military forces to stop the country’s humanitarian crisis and restore security has raised the ire of many Haitians who insist Haitian institutions should take the lead. Calling the crises a ploy to draw in foreign forces in the first place, some also vowed to protest anew against such measures.

“We should chain the doors of all offices of public institutions until Prime Minister Ariel Henry leaves,” said Ebens Cadet, spokesperson of Nou Konsyan, an anti-corruption activist group in Port-au-Prince. “We should also gather in front of the different countries’ embassies in Haiti, including the United States, France and Canada, to make ourselves heard.”

“We do not accept the presence of foreign forces on our territory,” Cadet said.



I think that may have been the point of Trudeau's stipulation. He's saying no, without having to say no.
 

FormerHorseGuard

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National Post has an interesting take on this
nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-going-to-invade-haiti

Not even sure we have the equipment to move enough equipment fast enough

I would not even be able to guess what would be needed or how to move it.

Aircraft could move the equipment in if the airport is serviceable, and if the people are willing to allow the aircraft to land unmolested.

This would be a complete war like operation to get troops on the ground

cargo landing ships would make this easier, can they wait for Canada to have them built?
 

GR66

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Some Haitians aren't keen on more foreign intervention, so I assume that Trudeau's intervention criteria couldn't be met anyways:

To some Haitians, another foreign military force would be “greatest humiliation”​

The Haitian government’s request for international military forces to stop the country’s humanitarian crisis and restore security has raised the ire of many Haitians who insist Haitian institutions should take the lead. Calling the crises a ploy to draw in foreign forces in the first place, some also vowed to protest anew against such measures.

“We should chain the doors of all offices of public institutions until Prime Minister Ariel Henry leaves,” said Ebens Cadet, spokesperson of Nou Konsyan, an anti-corruption activist group in Port-au-Prince. “We should also gather in front of the different countries’ embassies in Haiti, including the United States, France and Canada, to make ourselves heard.”

“We do not accept the presence of foreign forces on our territory,” Cadet said.

I think if Afghanistan and Iraq have taught us anything is that reform has to come from within the country. It can't be imposed from without.

If we are going to "intervene" it should be limited to helping the Haitian government strengthen their own institutions under their own direction. Assist them in providing their own good governance (infrastructure, policing, judiciary, security forces, anti-corruption, etc.). But the key is they need to actually do the work themselves, not have us do it for them. Foreign doners can provide financial and technical assistance if required but the minute we start actually doing the tasks for them (including security and policing) it is something that is being imposed upon them and will be resisted.

$0.02
 

medicineman

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I seem to recall during my sojourn down there in 2004 that when the narcos were being handled by us (us being the Canadian, US, French and Chilean coalition forces), we were accused of being terrorists by the NDP's leader because a constituent's drug and gun running operation was being disrupted by coalition forces (pre-MINUSTAH). The place is a failed nation state a hundred times over and needs to be taken in hand/over by a willing and strong willed country and rebuilt from the ground up, properly supported, and eventually eased from the nest with ongoing tech support for years to come. I don't see anybody around willing to take on that responsibility after our fiascos there and elsewhere in the world.

My $0.02

🍿
 

Humphrey Bogart

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I think if Afghanistan and Iraq have taught us anything is that reform has to come from within the country. It can't be imposed from without.

If we are going to "intervene" it should be limited to helping the Haitian government strengthen their own institutions under their own direction. Assist them in providing their own good governance (infrastructure, policing, judiciary, security forces, anti-corruption, etc.). But the key is they need to actually do the work themselves, not have us do it for them. Foreign doners can provide financial and technical assistance if required but the minute we start actually doing the tasks for them (including security and policing) it is something that is being imposed upon them and will be resisted.

$0.02
There could be a case for a limited intervention of a short-term duration but the danger of mission creep, especially with the current crop of ideologues we have in power, is incredibly high.

This would involve us:

A) Picking a side
B) Absolutely smashing anyone that opposes that side, with lots of controlled violence.
C) Leaving on conclusion of that task.

The question then becomes: "Is that side the current Government of Haiti? Or is it someone else?"

Anyone wanting to get us involved with things like "Nation-building", "Hearts and Minds", "Spreading Democracy", etc... needs to be told to screw off.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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I seem to recall during my sojourn down there in 2004 that when the narcos were being handled by us (us being the Canadian, US, French and Chilean coalition forces), we were accused of being terrorists by the NDP's leader because a constituent's drug and gun running operation was being disrupted by coalition forces (pre-MINUSTAH). The place is a failed nation state a hundred times over and needs to be taken in hand/over by a willing and strong willed country and rebuilt from the ground up, properly supported, and eventually eased from the nest with ongoing tech support for years to come. I don't see anybody around willing to take on that responsibility after our fiascos there and elsewhere in the world.

My $0.02

🍿
Exactly! Most of the illegal guns in other Caribbean Countries come from Haiti. The vast majority of illegal guns in Jamaica for instance, were smuggled there from the USA via Haiti. It's basically Somalia of the Western Hemisphere.

I doubt we would get much help from the CARICOM if we went in either, most of the Caribbean Countries hate Haitians LOL, "ThEy Be ThIeVeS MaN"! Is a common phrase I've heard used by people from Trinidad, Jamaica, Barbados, DR, etc when describing Haitians.
 

YZT580

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So that would be enhancing our activities in the PACIFIC, NORAD, NATO, and now adding a war in Haiti to the mix. And all with what 12000 active troops? Pardon me if I don't think that we have the manpower resources let alone the hardware
 

Quirky

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So that would be enhancing our activities in the PACIFIC, NORAD, NATO, and now adding a war in Haiti to the mix. And all with what 12000 active troops? Pardon me if I don't think that we have the manpower resources let alone the hardware
I suggested a multi-element base out of Puerto Plata in the other Haiti thread. No way we could sustain logistics and basing in Haiti itself. Too dangerous.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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So that would be enhancing our activities in the PACIFIC, NORAD, NATO, and now adding a war in Haiti to the mix. And all with what 12000 active troops? Pardon me if I don't think that we have the manpower resources let alone the hardware
Canada is the King of Tokenism. We would rather poorly contribute minimal forces and efforts to all of those initiatives and achieve no effects other than to "be seen to be doing something" than dedicate our efforts to a focused objective.

"Send an old rusty frigate to float around Asia, a poorly equipped rifle company accompanied by a Battalion of Officers to Europe, sprinkle a CP-140 here and there and send a few SOF guys randomly around the World" BAM..... We're Back!
 

stoker dave

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needs to be taken in hand/over by a willing and strong willed country and rebuilt from the ground up,
My two cents?

What can we do (other than armed intervention and endlessly throwing money) to allow Haitians to reclaim their country from the gangs and rebuild their own country?

What if we want a stable, economically viable democracy in Haiti more than the Haitians do?
 

Weinie

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My two cents?

What can we do (other than armed intervention and endlessly throwing money) to allow Haitians to reclaim their country from the gangs and rebuild their own country?

What if we want a stable, economically viable democracy in Haiti more than the Haitians do?
I was in Haiti in 2004. The locals were interested in 1) food, 2) security, and 3) immigrating. A stable, viable democratic economy was not on the list.
 

Czech_pivo

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World Colonial history they won't teach you in school.

1) Being colonized by British works out that in the end you are doing better than your neighbours.
2) if you can't have that hope for the Portuguese
3) Spanish if you must
4) Never the French

And if a Belgian King is eyeing your place....just shoot yourself in the head. :)

By choosing option one. You get your traditional way of life destroyed but will receive railways, common law and in some cases better governance. And after sometime they will most likely leave mostly peacefully.

But back to the topic
In seriousness this would a be a thankless task. And add very high risk of failure with no upside.

Also, a pretty decent chance of being able to be educated back in the UK and/or immigrating to the UK or Canada/Australia/NZ
 

Czech_pivo

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Does that sound at all like Afghanistan or Iraq to you? How did they work out?
The only true hope for them is to have Canada 'take them over' a la post WW1 'Protectorate' style for 20-30yrs and run the entire state - meaning revamping the entire education system, taking over the entire police/legal system, building the health care system, water treatment facilities, waste water, electrical grid, garbage collection/disposal - every single facet of government - and starting from scratch. With the UN - not Canada - footing this bill.

In other words - it will never, ever happen and I'm willing to bet that 100yrs from now my not even born grandchildren will be lamenting what is to be done with Haiti.
 

CBH99

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My two cents?

What can we do (other than armed intervention and endlessly throwing money) to allow Haitians to reclaim their country from the gangs and rebuild their own country?

What if we want a stable, economically viable democracy in Haiti more than the Haitians do?
We know how that works out... 😬
 

medicineman

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Exactly! Most of the illegal guns in other Caribbean Countries come from Haiti. The vast majority of illegal guns in Jamaica for instance, were smuggled there from the USA via Haiti. It's basically Somalia of the Western Hemisphere.

I doubt we would get much help from the CARICOM if we went in either, most of the Caribbean Countries hate Haitians LOL, "ThEy Be ThIeVeS MaN"! Is a common phrase I've heard used by people from Trinidad, Jamaica, Barbados, DR, etc when describing Haitians.
Funny you mention that - imagine the look on my face when the UN forces that did show up were from a who's who of 3rd world despotic nations with poor human rights records dealing with THEIR OWN CITIZENS...forget the fact I wandered in on a tour of PRC National Police that were there to teach the Haitian National Police riot control :oops::rolleyes::ROFLMAO:. The Brazilian MP's that occupied the camp near got into it with a bunch of narcos a night or two before I flew home - tracers flying both ways, sometimes over us, as their check point was kitty corner to us.
 

Weinie

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Funny you mention that - imagine the look on my face when the UN forces that did show up were from a who's who of 3rd world despotic nations with poor human rights records dealing with THEIR OWN CITIZENS...forget the fact I wandered in on a tour of PRC National Police that were there to teach the Haitian National Police riot control :oops::rolleyes::ROFLMAO:. The Brazilian MP's that occupied the camp near got into it with a bunch of narcos a night or two before I flew home - tracers flying both ways, sometimes over us, as their check point was kitty corner to us.
But a great War Story.(y)
 
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