Hamas wins majority in democratic Palestinian Elections

[GO!!!]

This talk of switching from Israeli alliances to Arab ones will please only one group:
Israel
Lets face it the only thing holding the Israelis back is the west, with the American Leesh removed theyd be more then willing to wipe the Middle East as we know it off the map.
In every single conflict, regardless of technological or numerical advantage, the Arab nations have proven themselves adept at getting their *sses kicked.
I believe the Israeli cabinet is licking its lips, Hamas is now legit and all they have to do is wait for it to cross the line and blast it back to the stone age.
Even the Americans acknowledge that in a regional conflict, even America would be unable to stop Israel, see EX MILLENIUM CHALLENGE.
Israel is there to stay, for the Arabs to remove them would be like the natives removing us from Canada.

Besides, no matter how good ur PR section is, u wont be winning any hearts and minds while blowing oneself up in shopping malls.

Cheer...  mazel tuf (or something like that)   :cheers:

Israel would probably "win" a ME war in the early stages, but the whole reason that they laid such a beating on the Arabs in the first place was US support - remember the airlift of military equipment to Israel on the shiny new C5 galaxy? The Israelis would win early, but lose overall, due to sheer weight of numbers, if they lost US support and money, the only thing that keeps Israel alive today.

 

[Cannonfodder]

  Every night our news casts are hijacked with the ongoing saga of the middle east , its to the point that it is white noise to most people . You have savage wars and disasters that are not brought to viewers attention because the media is feeding us another repeat of the 5 o clock news . It is kind of beyond who is right or who is wrong , these parties will never get along .  If aide was cut off on all sides maybe they would see there need to coexist  but that is wishful thinking .

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

The rock and a hard place.........its tough to govern one way whem most of your subjects wish something else.

Negotiated Peace

Hamas's election victory may have raised fears of a hardening in Palestinian attitudes towards Israel, but a poll Monday shows a vast majority want a negotiated peace with their Israel.
A survey conducted within days of the group's win showed 84 percent of Palestinians want a negotiated peace agreement with Israel, said the survey by the Ramallah-based Near East Consulting institute.
And even among Hamas supporters, over three quarters of those polled (77 percent) admitted they would like to see a negotiated settlement to the conflict.

Eighty-six percent said they want Abbas to remain in his post when Hamas forms a new government.
Perhaps more importantly in the wake of growing international pressure, nearly three-quarters want Hamas to drop its call for the destruction of Israel.
Nearly three out of four (73 percent) respondents said they believed the resistance movement should "change its position on the elimination of the state of Israel."

In contrast, a poll in an Israeli daily reflected a hardening of attitudes with only one in six (17.6 percent) people believing their government should conduct negotiations toward a final settlement with a Hamas-led government.
The figures in the Maariv daily showed a sharp drop from those published in a Yediot Aharonot poll conducted before last Wednesday's parliamentary election when 48 percent of respondents said Israel should talk to a Hamas-led government.
In Monday's survey, however, 52.7 percent said Israel should not engage in talks with such a government.

Here is the whole article.
http://www.islamonline.org/English/News/2006-01/30/article04.shtml

 

[48Highlander]

Islam Online might not be the most impartial source of middle-east news....

EDIT:

The LA times generaly tends to be left-leaning also, but even they seem to be a little more balanced than Islam Online:

For most Israelis, the only association with Hamas has been the most traumatic one possible: the killing and maiming of hundreds of citizens in suicide bombings carried out by the group's military wing.

Yet an opinion poll conducted last week found substantial numbers of Israelis expressing willingness to open some form of dialogue with Hamas. The survey, published Friday in the Maariv newspaper, found that 40% of respondents would be willing to negotiate with Hamas if it renounced violence. Fewer than one-third, or 29%, said Israel should cut off all contacts with the Palestinian Authority and resume targeted killings of Hamas leaders if it failed to renounce violence.

Not sure where the Islam Online "statistics" are coming from.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Not sure where yours came from either..........."published".....whoopee 

 

[Glorified Ape]

I see a flip side as well.

War can be legally declared on another nation. Trade embargos can be legally declared upon another nation.

It may be easier to deal with Hamas now that they are "exposed" as a legal gov't

The Palestinian territories are not a state - it's statehood which Palestinians have been after for a long long time. A nation and a state are two different things.

My statement to the "more democratic means" is based solely on the voter turnout - 86% was the number I read.

We are really dealing with two groups of genocidal maniacs, as 48th alluded to, and I am of the opinion that neither is "better" than the other.
If we are to be allied with one, I would prefer it to be the Arab/Persian bloc, as opposed to the Zionist one - Israel is not going to nuke us for neglecting them, but the Iranians just might nuke us for continuing to support Israel.

I doubt anyone's going to nuke us - what weapons they do have would be better put to use nuking each other. I agree about there being two groups of genocidal twits involved, though Hamas seems much more open about their attitudes.

I think Hamas getting elected will change their behaviour substantially - one of the best ways to defuse a political movement, especially a resistance movement, is to include them in the political process. I can't imagine any bigger inclusion than being the head of the government. Their formation, or intent thereto, of a military isn't something we can really crap on them for - just about every state has an army and few have a greater need for one than the Palestinians, even if they're not a state yet.

 

[jimmy742]

I agree that one of the best ways to defuse a political movement, particularly one perceived also as providing armed resistance to an occupier, is to include them in the political process. It happened in Northern Ireland, for example, with some success.

If one can judge by the initial press statements, there clearly appears to be a moderate Hamas and an extremist Hamas. The moderates appear to be based in Palestine and the more extreme faction seems to be in Syria. The odds are pretty good that the Palestinians voted for the moderates.

Furthermore, economics will dictate Hamas' policy. Iran and especially Syria cannot possibly provide $3.4 billion annually in economic aid, and Israel can shut down the Palestinian economy almost at will. Looking at past actions, the Hamas leadership practices "realpolitik". This would imply a more moderate stance and, likely, recognition of Israel's right to exist. To think that Hamas will continue to follow a military course of action vs Israel as long term policy is simply asinine.

 

[48Highlander]

Their formation, or intent thereto, of a military isn't something we can really crap on them for - just about every state has an army and few have a greater need for one than the Palestinians, even if they're not a state yet.

I think they'd be much better off with a strong and well armed police force instead of an army, although in the middle-east the distinction between the two tends to be almost non-existant anyway.

To think that Hamas will continue to follow a military course of action vs Israel as long term policy is simply asinine.

Just remember that the same thing was said when Arafat came to power.

 

[a_majoor]

The surreal world of the middle east, Via Instapundit Feb 19 2006:

    Just yesterday, Hamas came into power. As I noted, its first order of business was to indemnify itself—rhetorically, if not legally—from the obligations of Oslo, and to assert that, no, the nation of Israel does not have the right to exist in this world. Despite Hamas’ being essentially a successor government (and thus required under international law to abide by treaties to which the previous government acceded), the party has renounced any treaty that recognized Israel.

    Can you guess what the second order of business was? That’s right: to condemn Israel’s decision to cease sending cash to the Palestinian Authority. Specifically, $42.2 million. Since the PA and its new Hamas bosses run almost entirely on the swiftly-eroding goodwill of the rest of the world (terrorism doesn’t pay very well), Hamas is now demanding that Israel reconsider its decision to cut funding. A representative said: "This is a faulty decison, and the Israelis must reconsider their decision. It will only increase hatred."

It really is like dealing with teenagers. Except, you know, for the murder part.