How bad has airline travel become in North America?

[jollyjacktar]

Seeing as I don't fly often and it's usually Air Canada I was left agog today with the statement on the radio that Air Canada has been voted the best in North America.  How bad has it become elsewhere with other airlines?  I still think that Air Canada sucks when compared to the others I have traveled with in the past and has only become worse.

 

[mariomike]

It can always get worse:
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/2010-09-10-airlinestanding10_ST_N.htm

 

[BernDawg]

Wow, really? Obviously the voters never flew on West-Jet.  ;D

Are you sure it wasn't an Air Canada commercial?

 

[mariomike]

Reminds me of a joke I heard.

A guy sitting at an airport bar noticed a beautiful woman sitting next to him. He thought to himself, "Wow, she's so gorgeous she must be a flight attendant; but which airline does she work for?"

Hoping to pick her up, he leaned towards her and said, "Love to fly and it shows?"

She gave him a blank, confused stare and he immediately thought to himself, she doesn't work for Delta.

A few seconds later, another slogan popped into his head. He leaned towards her again, "Something special in the air?"

She gave him the same confused look. He mentally kicked himself and scratched American Airlines off of the list.

Next he tried "I would really love to fly your friendly skies?"

This time the woman barked back at him "Man, what the heck do you want?"

The man smiled, then slumped back in his chair, "Ahhh, Air Canada".

 

[jollyjacktar]

Wow, really? Obviously the voters never flew on West-Jet.  ;D

Are you sure it wasn't an Air Canada commercial?

Nope.  It was on the local news talk radio.  I can't remember how many folks were surveyed.  (4000 or 40000 IIRC)  I hate flying AC myself, but seeing as I'm not paying for the ride...

 

[mariomike]

Sun:
"Air Canada voted best airline in North America";
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/02/air-canada-voted-best-airline-in-north-america

Related topics:
"Air Canada Rant":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/76805.0
( 5 pages )


"Air Canada Case Study in Alienating Passengers, Public";
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/95735.0/nowap.html
"There is a common saying among fliers in this country that 'Air Canada is not happy until you're not happy.' "

 

[cupper]

It's not just the airlines that make the experience akin to methods of enhanced interrogation. I'm not sure about the experience north of the border (as it has been a few years since I've flown back home), but the security process in major US airports can make water boarding a calm soothing experience in comparison.

The best experience I had was in Chicago Midway, which has someone who knows what they were doing devise three or four streams for passengers going through security. One for families and travelers who need assistance, another for novice travelers, and one for frequent flyers. All get the same level of scrutiny, but the number of lanes devoted to each type differs, with frequent flyers getting only a couple of lanes, but they go faster because they typically have packed light, know the process by heart and things run through smooth. 

Worst experience was in Providence Rhode Island. After being stuck for 3 days trying to get out due to an ice storm that screwed up travel up and down the coast, had to face security lines for the 3rd straight day. And to top it off, it was spring break so most people were headed south to get away from winter. The couple ahead of me had no clue about the restrictions on liquids and gels. She tried to get her cosmetics and beauty products through the screening, only to be told that she couldn't. (after dozens of announcements by screeners reminding people). After explaining to her she was limited to 3 ounces max, and only what could fit in a quart size zip lock bag, she tries to shove large shampoo and conditioner bottles into a sandwich bag, along with all of the other cosmetics and so forth. After holding up the line for 5 minutes, the screener could see I was about to go off on her, so he kindly suggested that the couple step aside and let the rest of us go ahead. Twenty minutes later all you could hear at the gate was her bitching about having to check her bag, and how if any of her expensive products was lost or damaged, the airport and TSA were going to pay. :facepalm:

Pretty soon, we are all going to have to start flying naked. ;D

 

[bcbarman]

I'm just amazed that the CATSA have enough forthought to let Nexus card holders (for travel to the US and Canada) use an express lane though domestic screening.  OMG! next you will be telling me that a 15 min interview can screen out a terrorist.  you know that this is a management top-down thing to reduce wait times, no other reason.

 

[cupper]

I'm just amazed that the CATSA have enough forthought to let Nexus card holders (for travel to the US and Canada) use an express lane though domestic screening.  OMG! next you will be telling me that a 15 min interview can screen out a terrorist.  you know that this is a management top-down thing to reduce wait times, no other reason.

Where did you see that security screening for NEXUS card holders was going to have a separate express line? My understanding was that this was only for Customs and Immigration.

 

[bcbarman]

the main purpose is customs and immigration, but in Vancouver airport (and I think I saw it in Montreal) they have a dedicated line during the peak hours for Nexus holders.

I may be biased, but I love my nexus card (and recommend everyone gets one soon, the plan is changing, as well as the fee)

 

[Pistos]

OMG! next you will be telling me that a 15 min interview can screen out a terrorist.  you know that this is a management top-down thing to reduce wait times, no other reason.

I fear you're a bit misled if you believe that the 15 min NEXUS interview is the extent of the screening.  Before you're invited to the interview you must fill out an application almost akin to a security clearance upgrade (I've filled out both within the past 6 months). US Department of Homeland Security initiates background checks by the RCMP, CSIS, Interpol and the United Nations and after a number of weeks (8 in my case) they may invite you to schedule the 'interview' where they meet you in person, take fingerprints and an retina scan and issue you the card.

At least one senator is proposing that NEXUS card holders be allowed to bypass airport security entirely http://www.theprovince.com/travel/NEXUS+card+holders+bypass+airport+security+screening+Senator/5849243/story.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3a+canwest%2fF228+(The+Province+-+News)&utm_content=FeedBurner+user+view

While I do not necessarily agree with this Senator's proposal it does speak to an alternate approach to security...screening individuals rather than every person's stuff. 

Perhaps NEXUS customers could be screened as we screen CF Members boarding our own aircraft - we start with the assumption that our passengers do not have any malicious intent.  Baggage inspections are done and each Member is given a short interview to advise of items that could be dangerous to fly with but because these travelers are pre-screened as being trusted, physical measures such are baggage inspections are the smallest part of the CF's air travel security equation.

Almost every air traveler is just a normal person for whom the airlines should have no cause for concern.  The NEXUS card simply identifies you as belonging to the majority.  I for one am looking forward to my next international flight where I can flash my card, scan my eyes and take the short lines  ;D

 

[Scott]

Hahaha, at least with NEXUS it's a security oriented pre-screening! At LHR you get the priority screening line based on frequent flier points.

I don't hate Air Canada, but I am not in love with them, either. This year hasn't been exceptionally bad for me: only had my bags lost twice and delayed three times. I've also been bumped to executive class couple of times and got that elusive Elite status that makes frequent travel a little more tolerable.

Seriously, anyone who moans about air travel within North America ought to give their heads a shake.

In my experience, which is going on four years of solid international travel, the biggest problems at airports are the passengers. People who do not bother to educate themselves on things before they arrive:
-not knowing proper check in times for whatever particular airport you're traveling from.
-not being packed in an organized fashion that also leaves you emergency kit in your carry on.
-starting things off by being rude. Rarely have I seen a customer service agent be rude first
-not being prepared to enter security. NO LIQUIDS and, FFS, get your frigging electronics out and ready to be screened separately, it's been like this for a while now - don't tell me you did not know, if you had have prepared you would know.
-if you have kids then run a practice session with them. They'll think it's fun and others will not want to murder you.
-ask for help. I am in the same boat as you and I will help to anyone. Ask, seriously. Especially when connecting in strange airports.
-being demanding and impatient - the fucking plane will not leave without you so long as you're at the gate for first call.
-not boarding by seat and row number.
-getting excited because there are too many people in the priority boarding lane - having Elite status doesn't allow you to be an asshole :nod:
-monopolizing flight attendants time.
-bringing carry-on bags that defy the size of the carry on compartments.
-generally acting like an asshole.
-trying to intervene in on board disputes (no matter how much fun it might be to tell that wander off)
-go ahead, take your shoes off, I do. But please, for the love of God, leave your manky socks on to hold in the smell.
-respect personal space.
-If this is your first time flying then please educate yourself and do not panic. Be polite. Say please and thank you. Show respect for others. It's kinda like kindergarten

Most of all - do not make the lives of others miserable because YOU fucked up. Any idiot should know that airlines are unforgiving and that airports are literal minefields of potential delays. PLAN FOR IT.

Now, to be fair, I'll mention what bothers me about Air Canada:
-indifference. I know you've had a long day, but this is your job (whatever it is, flight attendant, baggage check, gate)
-I would like the whole can of Coke, please. Stop treating it like it cuts into your retirement package when I want more than a mouthful of drink.
-show that you care by being proactive - when these dinks start crashing the line and frigging up the seating order and thereby delaying things and causing chaos...shame them! I have seen it done in London many a time. Shame the bastards and send them back to their seats.
-deal with customer issues promptly and personally.
-quit giving silly discount coupons to business travellers. I am smart enough to tell you I travel for business and my tickets are paid for by my firm...so I have little to no need for 30% off of wherever Air Canada flies between midnight April 1st and 4 am April 9th excluding certain destinations and only if there is a vacancy.
-SMILE!

I, for one, would not want to see lessened security for anyone. You got a shiny card? Big frigging deal. Flight crew, catering staff, Timmies employees on departures level, they all have to go through security. It's a small inconvenience that can be lessened if you take some responsibility. Suck it up and arrive a little early and all your woes go away.

Edited to properly insult a group of people and not refer to them as plumbing pieces.

 

[vonGarvin]

-show that you care by being proactive - when these dinks start crashing the line and frigging up the seating order and thereby delaying things and causing chaos...shame them! I have seen it done in London many a time. Shame the bastards and send them back to their seats.

to be fair to Air Canada, I did see an Air Canada boarding agent do exactly this.  In a loud voice, she said "No, Sir, I said row x to y.  You are in row z.  You are going to have to wait your turn, the plane will not leave without you."  I think it was in Halifax.

Edited by Scott to call people something other than "sinks". Damn you, autocorrect.

 

[Scott]

Proper thing. If it happened more there would be less bedlam. I still don't understand why people act like idiots over a flight.

I have to edit our posts. My original and your quote fell victim to my Mac's autocorrect feature. Dinks turned into "sinks". Can't have that.

Come on, hit me with your Mac user trash talk.

 

[dapaterson]

Flight crew, catering staff, Timmies employees on departures level, they all have to go through security.

Actually, security for catering staff and other on-tarmac staff is minimal to non-existent.  There are regular reports of theft rings, smuggling rings, and other unsavoury activities going on behind the scenes at many airports.

We have security theatre at airports.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Actually, security for catering staff and other on-tarmac staff is minimal to non-existent.  There are regular reports of theft rings, smuggling rings, and other unsavoury activities going on behind the scenes at many airports.

We have security theatre at airports.

I work in security on the side at a major airport.  The airport is under camera surveillance everywhere, and the ramp staff are subjected to security clearances to get their passes.  Of course there will be those who are of a criminal mind, when they are caught they are dealt with.  But to be fair, people are clever and you can't be everywhere or see everywhere at once.  I cannot think of one place on the planet that is safe from criminal activity of some sort.

 

[dapaterson]

I work in security on the side at a major airport.  The airport is under camera surveillance everywhere, and the ramp staff are subjected to security clearances to get their passes.  Of course there will be those who are of a criminal mind, when they are caught they are dealt with.  But to be fair, people are clever and you can't be everywhere or see everywhere at once.  I cannot think of one place on the planet that is safe from criminal activity of some sort.

I don't disagree at all.  But the inconveniene and expense associated with the post-9/11 security theatre for passengers provides minimal additional security.  "Oh, look, people are taking off their shoes.  I feel safer."

A quick review of 9/11 shows that the most effective security technique is lions amidst the lambs.  Three planes hit their targets because we teach people to be docile and to go along with whatever happens.  One plane was brought down because there were lions amongst the lambs, who fought back.

The lesson of 9/11 should not have been "Take off your shoes, place your liquids in an approved plastic bag, and accept a high-school drop-out fondling your genitals"; it should have been "Kill the bastards if they try anything on your flight."

 

[OldSolduer]

One plane was brought down because there were lions amongst the lambs, who fought back.

The lesson of 9/11 should not have been "Take off your shoes, place your liquids in an approved plastic bag, and accept a high-school drop-out fondling your genitals"; it should have been "Kill the bastards if they try anything on your flight."

I heartily agree. To see grandmothers treated like criminals is....criminal. But we can't "offend" any one can we?

 

[jollyjacktar]

I don't disagree at all.  But the inconveniene and expense associated with the post-9/11 security theatre for passengers provides minimal additional security.  "Oh, look, people are taking off their shoes.  I feel safer."

A quick review of 9/11 shows that the most effective security technique is lions amidst the lambs.  Three planes hit their targets because we teach people to be docile and to go along with whatever happens.  One plane was brought down because there were lions amongst the lambs, who fought back.

The lesson of 9/11 should not have been "Take off your shoes, place your liquids in an approved plastic bag, and accept a high-school drop-out fondling your genitals"; it should have been "Kill the bastards if they try anything on your flight."

My wife was on a Air Canada flight in 09 heading to London.  Halfway across the pond a Polish man three seats ahead of her started yelling for everyone to both get on the ground and move to the front of the plane as he had a bomb on board.  He waved a remote control around in his hand.  Now, mind you this was at about 0300hrs.  Most of the passengers did not respond to his demands, however, there were a number of British and Canadian servicemen on the plane.  They were on him like white on rice and had his shit sorted in about 30 seconds. 

Maybe all the passengers should be handed Tazers when they board with directions to zap the crap out of any hijackers, underwear bombers etc etc.    Would make flying more interesting at least.  But seriously, they should expand the Air Marshall operations and have them on every flight as a rule.

 

[Scott]

Actually, security for catering staff and other on-tarmac staff is minimal to non-existent.  There are regular reports of theft rings, smuggling rings, and other unsavoury activities going on behind the scenes at many airports.

We have security theatre at airports.

I wasn't clear. I didn't mean the guys who stock aircraft with food. You rarely, if ever, see them inside the secure passenger areas. You do see the ramp attendants, and that's fine and well. I was speaking about the non-Timmies food and beverage staff. Bars, restaurants, Starbucks, whatever. Could be extended to duty free employees, etc.

I am not arguing whether or not the additional measure make a difference. I am stating that if people would learn the measures before hand then they would not have such a hard time at the airport. It's not like they just spring this on you, it's been in place for a while with 'advancements" well advertised and reported upon. Most major airport's websites have directions on how to deal with it and what to expect. No one has ever fondled me at airport security, and no one will.