Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers

[Stoker]

Meh. Okay.

NFLD and Lab can continue to watch its young people migrate away, with no way to encourage immigrants to move there.

They can continue on the road to bankruptcy.

I like the way people say this wouldn't work, while not even to attempt mentioning a solution of their own.

Meh.

People in Quebec are in for a treat when you enter politics that's for sure. Newfoundland will be fine without your style of forced immigration.

 

[Altair]

People in Quebec are in for a treat when you enter politics that's for sure. Newfoundland will be fine without your style of forced immigration.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-rock-on-the-rocks-newfoundland-labrador-bankruptcy

A January poll by Abacus Data found that 53 per cent of Newfoundland and Labrador residents expect the province to go bankrupt sometime in the next few years, the most likely outcome a federal bailout.

Just fine.

 

[Stoker]

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-rock-on-the-rocks-newfoundland-labrador-bankruptcy
Just fine.

Polls is not the same as being bankrupt and sending in immigrants to burden the system is not going to help things.

 

[Altair]

Polls is not the same as being bankrupt and sending in immigrants to burden the system is not going to help things.

Burden the system?

Isn't this the province hurting for immigrants, but can't attract them?

 

[Loachman]

NFLD and Lab have a aging population and trouble attracting people to live there.

Win win.

Current residents may not see it that way.

Importing large numbers from foreign cultures is seldom looked upon favourably by the host communities.

People want their replacements to be like them, not completely oblivious to our laws and culture.

They will generally welcome small numbers that can be supported and eventually assimilated, but they do not want to be overwhelmed as is happening in the UK, Europe, and Sweden.

There will eventually be a backlash.

Isn't that a pickle. NFLD and Lab need more immigrants, yet cannot afford to pay for more immigrants, because it has a aging population which can really only be rectified by more immigrants.

The right kind of immigrants would be welcome. The wrong kind - unskilled, unable to communicate, and law-breakers from the start - would be a drain on an already fragile province, and could quickly overwhelm it.

Who benefits from that?

If they want to come in, there is a process that thousands of people manage to follow every year, without entering the US on visitors' visas and immediately heading north to illegal advertised border crossing sites.

The patient and law-abiding immigrants certainly don't appreciate thousands of people illegally cutting in front of them and delaying their legal entry.

while not even to attempt mentioning a solution of their own.

Like our current federal government?

Here's the first step:

Before attempting to correct a plumbing problem, shut off the %@#$*&! main water supply.

Has that happened yet?

Or is the basement continuing to flood?

 

[PuckChaser]

Newfoundland had a job vacancy rate of 1.6% in 2017, which is the lowest in the country. That means that you're going to dump a whole whack of immigrants on them, and they won't have jobs. Newfoundland doesn't have a people problem, they have a jobs problem. It is the opposite of Alberta, where there were tons of jobs and no one to do them.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/daily-quotidien/180111/dq180111a-eng.pdf?st=PXNuxphF

 

[Altair]

Current residents may not see it that way.

Importing large numbers from foreign cultures is seldom looked upon favourably by the host communities.

People want their replacements to be like them, not completely oblivious to our laws and culture.

They will generally welcome small numbers that can be supported and eventually assimilated, but they do not want to be overwhelmed as is happening in the UK, Europe, and Sweden.

There will eventually be a backlash.

Beggars can't be choosers, but I guess in this case, they can.

The right kind of immigrants would be welcome. The wrong kind - unskilled, unable to communicate, and law-breakers from the start - would be a drain on an already fragile province, and could quickly overwhelm it.

Who benefits from that?

If they want to come in, there is a process that thousands of people manage to follow every year, without entering the US on visitors' visas and immediately heading north to illegal advertised border crossing sites.

Ya, maybe. But when life gives you lemons...if these people can be successfully integrated, isn't that a win?

The patient and law-abiding immigrants certainly don't appreciate thousands of people illegally cutting in front of them and delaying their legal entry.

Like our current federal government?

Exactly. The feds are dropping the ball on this file, and they need a plan on how to deal with it. Even a bad plan is better than no plan, which is the case now

Here's the first step:

Before attempting to correct a plumbing problem, shut off the %@#$*&! main water supply.

Has that happened yet?

Or is the basement continuing to flood?

How would you shut off the main water supply? Build a fence?

 

[Altair]

Newfoundland had a job vacancy rate of 1.6% in 2017, which is the lowest in the country. That means that you're going to dump a whole whack of immigrants on them, and they won't have jobs. Newfoundland doesn't have a people problem, they have a jobs problem. It is the opposite of Alberta, where there were tons of jobs and no one to do them.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/daily-quotidien/180111/dq180111a-eng.pdf?st=PXNuxphF

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/aging-population-leads-to-financial-trouble-1.4345078


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/population-decline-newfoundland-labrador-harris-centre-report-1.4279580

According to the numbers, the province's population will drop by about eight per cent. That's just over 41,000 people.

The average age will bump up from 43 to 48, compared to the average Canadian who is now 41.

Some places, like River of Ponds and Roddickton on the Northern Peninsula, will see their population plummet by 40 per cent. The average resident there will be 54 years old.

Many other towns will shrink by 30 per cent, the report predicts: Musgrave Harbour, the Lewisporte and Twillingate region, the Gander Bay and Fogo Island area, and the south coast.

The problem, says Askari, is the province's changing demographics.

"I think the main problem in Newfoundland [and Labrador] really is the aging of the population and the loss of population," he said. "Which is really a structural issue for the province."

"It's a major challenge for the government and I know it's extremely difficult to deal with that."

It's a problem not even oil revenues can solve, he said.

"If the oil prices come back, maybe some help will come from that and that will raise the revenues," he said. "But I don't think that's going to really solve all the problems."

In particular, it won't help the extra spending on health care that goes along with an aging population. The report estimates that the province will have to bump its health-care expenses by almost seven per cent of its current GDP — the largest increase in the country.

"The loss of population will lead to lower economic growth and then the increase in spending as a result of the aging of the population, those two will lead to a continuous and rising fiscal deficit and, as a result, rising public debt in Newfoundland," he said.

If you say so.

 

[larry Strong]

Meh. Okay.

NFLD and Lab can continue to watch its young people migrate away,

Why do you think all the young people in Newfoundland are leaving?????????

Ya think because there is no work????

So what are all these immigrants going to do for work in NFLD????

Talk about simplistic.....


Cheers
Larry


Cheers
Larry

 

[Altair]

Why do you think all the young people in Newfoundland are leaving?????????

Ya think because there is no work????

So what are all these immigrants going to do for work in NFLD????

Talk about simplistic.....


Cheers
Larry


Cheers
Larry

Okay, fine. What was your solution again?

 

[larry Strong]

Uphold the law.....and NO it's not being done....


Cheers
Larry

 

[Altair]

Uphold the law.....and NO it's not being done....


Cheers
Larry

How do you want that done?

 

[Loachman]

Beggars can't be choosers, but I guess in this case, they can.

Importing people who will be nothing more than an expensive burden on a fragile province for a long period does not leave people much choice.

Dumping masses of unemployable into areas with no employment is a recipe for disaster.

Turning large sections of towns into ghettoes of non-English-speaking, welfare-dependent people ignorant of Canadian laws and customs, thereby driving more locals out of their towns and possibly province is not a viable solution.

This is happening elsewhere in the world.

if these people can be successfully integrated, isn't that a win?

Can they be? How long will it take? How much will it cost? At what point do taxpayers say "enough"? At what point does our immigration system become overwhelmed? When does the backlash start? When do you move to the real world?

I was a volunteer with a privately-funded Burundian family support group several years ago. I have seen similar a similar group work with my Syrian neighbours.

It takes far more effort, by far more people, over far longer than you are aware. There are only so many people willing and able to do that, and nowhere nearly enough, and they tend to need longish breaks before picking up another family, if they are willing to do so at all. Interpreters can be a huge challenge to find, and they may have, um, quirky agendae of their own. The Burundian family included ten children. Nobody spoke any English. Nobody had any real education, and no skills, with most of the children having been born in a refugee camp (which was rife with violence; the father was severely injured in one of two attacks), and really seemed to be under-equipped to adapt to their new lives. They ended up leaving for Montreal a year later, where there is a Burundian community. I have no idea how they are doing now.

The Syrian family has one more child than that. Several of their supporters had lived in Syria many years ago, had a good understanding of the culture, and spoke Arabic, and they continue to visit frequently. A second Syrian family moved in close a year later, and there are some Libyans and Egyptians nearby, so they have a fairly happy community but have not ghettoized themselves as has happened elsewhere, and can happen all too easily.

The two older boys have general construction labourer jobs, and the father is a farm hand. How many construction companies, or farms, are looking for unskilled workers in a province with a shrinking population?

How would you shut off the main water supply? Build a fence?

That's a good start. Much better than turning RCMP into RCBH.

Immediately flying illegal border crossers back to their home countries with directions about how to make legal applications would be another. We already expect would-be immigrants to apply for admission from their countries and will not accept applications from those here on holidays or student visas etcetera. Word would get around at least as quickly as Trudeau's "everybody welcome" tweet did. There are millions of actual, known refugees who have, in many cases, been languishing for years in camps, some of whom we could take instead of illegal queue-jumpers. We can't accept all, but we can pick and choose. Building camps where they could be held while awaiting adjudication on their refugee claims, rather than releasing them into the wild, would be another good thing to do.

Asking that nice President Trump to have his people better assess visa applicants from certain countries, and crack down on traffickers south of illegal border crossing points, would be a good thing to do, but that's a little late, now. Renegotiating the Safe Third Country Agreement to remove the not-crossing-into-Canada-at-an-official-port-of-entry loophole, in exchange, perhaps, for dropping/modifying supply management would be a big discouragement as well.

If only a certain prime minister had not pissed him off....

 

[Altair]

Importing people who will be nothing more than an expensive burden on a fragile province for a long period does not leave people much choice.

Dumping masses of unemployable into areas with no employment is a recipe for disaster.

Turning large sections of towns into ghettoes of non-English-speaking, welfare-dependent people ignorant of Canadian laws and customs, thereby driving more locals out of their towns and possibly province is not a viable solution.

This is happening elsewhere in the world.

Canada has been rather decent at integrating new immigrants into Canada.

Can they be? How long will it take? How much will it cost? At what point do taxpayers say "enough"? At what point does our immigration system become overwhelmed? When does the backlash start? When do you move to the real world?

I was a volunteer with a privately-funded Burundian family support group several years ago. I have seen similar a similar group work with my Syrian neighbours.

It takes far more effort, by far more people, over far longer than you are aware. There are only so many people willing and able to do that, and nowhere nearly enough, and they tend to need longish breaks before picking up another family, if they are willing to do so at all. Interpreters can be a huge challenge to find, and they may have, um, quirky agendae of their own. The Burundian family included ten children. Nobody spoke any English. Nobody had any real education, and no skills, with most of the children having been born in a refugee camp (which was rife with violence; the father was severely injured in one of two attacks), and really seemed to be under-equipped to adapt to their new lives. They ended up leaving for Montreal a year later, where there is a Burundian community. I have no idea how they are doing now.

The Syrian family has one more child than that. Several of their supporters had lived in Syria many years ago, had a good understanding of the culture, and spoke Arabic, and they continue to visit frequently. A second Syrian family moved in close a year later, and there are some Libyans and Egyptians nearby, so they have a fairly happy community but have not ghettoized themselves as has happened elsewhere, and can happen all too easily.

The two older boys have general construction labourer jobs, and the father is a farm hand. How many construction companies, or farms, are looking for unskilled workers in a province with a shrinking population?

Population booms sometimes come with a GDP boost, and more economic activity. Less people, and it's the exact opposite. NFLD and Lab is stuck in a demographic time bomb right now, with less young working age people, more older, retired people, who need more health care than younger people. Rising health care costs and shrinking working age population is a demographic crisis, an economic crisis, and very soon, a government crisis. What would you suggest? You may not like my idea, but I don't hear you proposing any solutions

That's a good start. Much better than turning RCMP into RCBH.

Immediately flying illegal border crossers back to their home countries with directions about how to make legal applications would be another.

If they make an asylum claim, we have to hear their case

We already expect would-be immigrants to apply for admission from their countries and will not accept applications from those here on holidays or student visas etcetera.

Sure, but these people are making asylum claims once they arrive, which usually means we need to hear their case before we can simply kick them out

Word would get around at least as quickly as Trudeau's "everybody welcome" tweet did.

It was a dumb tweet, but here we are.

There are millions of actual, known refugees who have, in many cases, been languishing for years in camps, some of whom we could take instead of illegal queue-jumpers. We can't accept all, but we can pick and choose. Building camps where they could be held while awaiting adjudication on their refugee claims, rather than releasing them into the wild, would be another good thing to do.

Can the camp be in NFLD?

Asking that nice President Trump to have his people better assess visa applicants from certain countries, and crack down on traffickers south of illegal border crossing points, would be a good thing to do, but that's a little late, now. Renegotiating the Safe Third Country Agreement to remove the not-crossing-into-Canada-at-an-official-port-of-entry loophole, in exchange, perhaps, for dropping/modifying supply management would be a big discouragement as well.

If only a certain prime minister had not pissed him off....

The only leader the president seems to get along with is Putin, I wont blame Trudeau for that.

Also, I think it's wishful thinking that the USA would want to stop immigrants from leaving. The situation on the Canadian border is probably a blessing for the current administration. So the Safe 3rd country act isn't going anywhere, so we need a canadian solution. America isn't going to help us.

 

[Loachman]

Canada has been rather decent at integrating new immigrants into Canada.

In controlled numbers, according to an established process.

America isn't going to help us.

Of course not, given the prime minister that has been inflicted upon us.

And who still refuses to take any corrective measures.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Loachman]

And who still refuses to take any corrective measures.
[/quote]

Wait until a little closer to election time. Handouts and promises.

 

[PuckChaser]

Wait until a little closer to election time. Handouts and promises.

"Real Change"

 

[Brad Sallows]

Managed economy solution: put people where you want them to find jobs.

Market economy solution: create jobs to draw people.

 

[Altair]

In controlled numbers, according to an established process.

Of course not, given the prime minister that has been inflicted upon us.

And who still refuses to take any corrective measures.

Ya, sure. Question though. Would the USA take them back? Currently, the answer is no.

If the answer is no, can we send them back to countries where their lives might be in danger without a hearing?

no.

So in reality, no matter what we do, we are stuck with them. Unless...we build a wall.

 

[PuckChaser]

Would the USA take them back? Currently, the answer is no.

Says who?