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Illegal Border Crossing into Canada - Asylum Seekers

Altair

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PuckChaser said:
Says who?
https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/nigeria-to-issue-travel-documents-faster-to-expelled-border-crossers-hussen

Canada has asked the U.S. government to consider renegotiating the agreement, but so far there has been no response from the Trump administration, Hussen said Friday.
Like I said, not interested.
 

brihard

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Loachman said:
Immediately flying illegal border crossers back to their home countries with directions about how to make legal applications would be another. We already expect would-be immigrants to apply for admission from their countries and will not accept applications from those here on holidays or student visas etcetera. Word would get around at least as quickly as Trudeau's "everybody welcome" tweet did. There are millions of actual, known refugees who have, in many cases, been languishing for years in camps, some of whom we could take instead of illegal queue-jumpers. We can't accept all, but we can pick and choose. Building camps where they could be held while awaiting adjudication on their refugee claims, rather than releasing them into the wild, would be another good thing to do.

The first part of your suggestion is blatantly illegal. They still have the right to due process. Canadian law requires a hearing. The IRB is badly under-resourced for this. They're posting jobs aggressively, but you can't just knit Immigration and Refugee Board members - like any quasi-judicial tribunal it needs people with a good background of experience and aptitude. It's like trying to suddenly increase your number of judges- there is a limited talent poor from which to draw, and you have to be very careful integrating them into the existing workforce so that they are properly trained and developed.

In practical terms we absolutely could choose to build internment camps to hold all of the asylum claimants in... But there would be a ton of problems with this and I fear Canada would come out of that looking very bad indeed. It's definitely a political no-go, but even setting that aside, incarcerating tens of thousands of people for a period of upwards of a year would be a hugely burdensome project...
 

Altair

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Brihard said:
The first part of your suggestion is blatantly illegal. They still have the right to due process. Canadian law requires a hearing. The IRB is badly under-resourced for this. They're posting jobs aggressively, but you can't just knit Immigration and Refugee Board members - like any quasi-judicial tribunal it needs people with a good background of experience and aptitude. It's like trying to suddenly increase your number of judges- there is a limited talent poor from which to draw, and you have to be very careful integrating them into the existing workforce so that they are properly trained and developed.

In practical terms we absolutely could choose to build internment camps to hold all of the asylum claimants in... But there would be a ton of problems with this and I fear Canada would come out of that looking very bad indeed. It's definitely a political no-go, but even setting that aside, incarcerating tens of thousands of people for a period of upwards of a year would be a hugely burdensome project...
Plans are hard.
 

brihard

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Altair said:
Plans are hard.

In a society with firm rule of law, yes they can be. Plus whoever you intend to execute those plans has to be able to look themselves in the mirror once they get home from work.
 

Altair

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Brihard said:
In a society with firm rule of law, yes they can be. Plus whoever you intend to execute those plans has to be able to look themselves in the mirror once they get home from work.
How about the idea that was floated to make where ever migrants are crossing a legal port of entry?

At that point, they can be refused entry, correct?
 

ModlrMike

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Altair said:
Plans are hard.

Plans are easy... planning is hard. I know that sounds kind of zen, but in other words "fail to plan, plan to fail".
 

Altair

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ModlrMike said:
Plans are easy... planning is hard. I know that sounds kind of zen, but in other words "fail to plan, plan to fail".
Well, 4 federal political parties, 4 provincial political parties, and everyone on this board has so far failed to come up with a plan that would stop this crisis while being constitutional or legal.

So yes, Plans, or planning, is hard.
 

ModlrMike

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Because that's what happens when you act before you think!
 

Altair

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Because that's what happens when you act before you think!
True, it was a stupid tweet.

And now we are stuck without a solution.
 

PuckChaser

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Altair said:
And now we are stuck without a solution.

Dump money into the IRB, adjudicate the cases much faster, and deport back to home countries. In the case of the Haitians "fleeing" the US, they are economic migrants running to us because the free ride in the Temporary Protected Status was ended. Check out this person here:

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/11/05/561922898/we-want-to-stay-haitian-immigrants-in-u-s-fear-end-of-temporary-protected-status

Desir came to the U.S. in 2008 to help out her aging parents, both legal residents. She overstayed her visa and was still in the U.S. when a powerful earthquake struck Haiti in 2010.

Hundreds of thousands were killed, and the Obama administration granted Haitians temporary protected status. They were shielded from deportation and given work permits.

Critics say the temporary program for Haiti and for others from countries where disasters and wars took place decades ago has become permanent and amounts to a backdoor immigration policy.

This person overstayed her visa, which would mean she'd be banned from reentering the US for 10 years. She got lucky and found a loophole to continue being illegally in the country and is now scared the loophole is closing and she'll be deported. She also is not able to apply for citizenship as a TPS immigrant, so she'd need to return home and apply like everyone else.
 

Altair

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https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/influx-of-irregular-refugees-has-reached-crisis-level-for-most-canadians-poll-suggests?video_autoplay=true

This American President must truly be a unholy nightmare for Trudeau and the Liberals.

With the USA pushing all those migrants out of the US and into Canada, he has found a way to unite Canadians of all political backgrounds together.

According to the new survey from the Angus Reid Institute, two thirds of respondents believe that Canada has taken in too many irregular asylum claimants for authorities to manage, including majorities of Conservative, Liberal and NDP voters.

65 percent of Canadians, 84 percent of conservatives, 56 percent of Liberals, and 53 percent of NDP voters believe that the amount of illegal migration is too much for Canada to handle.

0 Percent of conservatives(ZERO!) 10 percent of Liberals and 9 percent of NDP believe it's a small number and Canada can handle more.

Those are some hideous numbers right there, and to boot

"Recent survey results from Abacus Data also found that among voters who want a change in government, immigration and refugees ranked as the second reason they’re dissatisfied, behind deficits and debt."

Major weak point for the Liberals, who have completely bungled this issue. And I guess it puts to rest the idea that Canadians are any more tolerant than Americans when it comes to illegal border crossings.
 

Rifleman62

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Isn't this interesting, and from the CBC no less. How much is this costing us? My OAS just went up $7.08 month, enough to almost purchase a gallon and a half of milk.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/asylum-seekers-border-anchor-relatives-1.4771045

Irregular migrants acting as 'anchor relatives' to help get family into the country: CBSA - Kathleen Harris · CBC News - 2 Aug 18

Extract: Canadian border officers are reporting on what they call a "phenomenon" on the migrant front: irregular border crossers acting as "anchor relatives" for those making refugee claims at official points of entry. The Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) says people who have entered the country through irregular migration can make use of an exception in the law facilitate the entry of family members — even when their own claims haven't been adjudicated.

"Recently, CBSA officers are noticing another phenomenon: claimants who have recently arrived in Canada as irregular migrants and have refugee claims in process are acting as an anchor relative for other qualifying family members," says an information package provided to the Parliamentary Budget Officer (PBO) by the CBSA. "This means that these family members can present themselves at a port of entry and not be considered as irregular migrants. Also, they can't be refused entry under the Safe Third Country Agreement (STCA)."

The CBSA document says the provision applies not just to nuclear families but to parents, grandparents, siblings, aunts, uncles, nephews and nieces.

For the first time, the RCMP has provided numbers of asylum seekers intercepted outside official border points for 2016, showing a tenfold spike in just one year. In 2017, 20,593 asylum seekers were intercepted, compared to just 2,486 in 2016. Previously, the RCMP did not track asylum seekers separately from others who were intercepted outside regular crossings and who were engaged in other activities, such as human smuggling. From Jan. 1 to July 15, 2018, there were 11,420 interceptions of irregular migrants at the border. Officials have noted a declining rate of irregular border crossings in recent months.
 

Jarnhamar

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Irregular migrant is such a dumb PC phrase. They're illegal migrants.

The only silver lining with this is that previous diehard liberal voters are realizing what a shit show the government is.
 

Remius

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Jarnhamar said:
Irregular migrant is such a dumb PC phrase. They're illegal migrants.

The only silver lining with this is that previous diehard liberal voters are realizing what a crap show the government is.


This article discusses that very term.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/irregular-or-illegal-the-fight-over-what-to-call-the-thousands-of-migrants-streaming-into-canada
 

PPCLI Guy

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Rifleman62 said:
Isn't this interesting, and from the CBC no less. How much is this costing us? My OAS just went up $7.08 month, enough to almost purchase a gallon and a half of milk.

Correlation.

Causation.

Not the same thing.

I'll throw in a red herring for the win
 

Jarnhamar

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Remius said:
This article discusses that very term.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/irregular-or-illegal-the-fight-over-what-to-call-the-thousands-of-migrants-streaming-into-canada

Thanks for posting that Remius it was really informative.

I'll just cherry pick some items from it.


Crossing the Canadian border without passing through an official port of entry is indeed illegal.
Most migrants illegally crossing the border, in fact, pass directly in front of a bilingual sign telling them that they are breaking the law.

“It is illegal to cross the border here or any place other than a Port of Entry. You will be arrested and detained if you cross here,” reads a sign

However, the illegality ends up being moot since every border crosser immediately claims asylum after being met by an RCMP officer on the Canadian side.

By doing this, their crossing is still illegal, but Canadian law stops considering them a criminal the moment they claim to be a refugee.

It's the government trying to change the optics of the situation to make their position more favourable.
Like when the RCMP arrest someone with an ar15 it's an assault rifle, when it's in their hands it's a patrol carbine. Sounds less scary.

Rebranded Irregular migrats are still entering the country illegally, costing us in upwards of I believe 270 million dollars now and there doesn't seem to be a plan to do anything about it

 

PuckChaser

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Fishbone Jones

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PuckChaser said:
One tweet cost us $270M CAD in under 2 years. https://globalnews.ca/news/4368410/ottawa-spent-270m-on-border-crossers-in-under-2-years-pbo/

Also for the anchor relative issue, that's an easy change to make in the legislation. People should absolutely not be allowed to sponsor or "anchor" relatives coming to Canada until their refugee claim has been adjudicated. Its a simple change that would likely garner all party (save perhaps the NDP) support.

It's a simple change, agreed, but one which the grits have no expectation of doing. If Trudeau had wanted to fix this problem, he would have done it a long time ago. He has no intention of stemming the tide. It's exactly what he wants. Total chaos and thousands of illegals wandering the country, with no tracking or means of making a legal wage.

Trudeau is an 'Open Borders' zealot, we have uncontrolled illegal immigration, he's having a ball watching this happen. He's not going to do a thing about it and just leave the whole mess to the new government in 2019.
 

Haggis

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recceguy said:
Trudeau is an 'Open Borders' zealot, we have uncontrolled illegal immigration, he's having a ball watching this happen. He's not going to do a thing about it and just leave the whole mess to the new government in 2019.

You are dangerously assuming that there will be a new, non-Liberal government in late 2019.  Perhaps this influx of irregular/illegal migrants is one phase of the Liberals shaping the battlespace for the next election. The Liberals are not stupid.  They are deliberately being as un-Trumplike as possible in order to position themselves as the viable alternative to "Republican North" Scheer.  :Tin-Foil-Hat:

(BTW I'm really enjoying the reality TV show "The Presidency" on Fox and CNN.  if Trump finishes his term, it'll be the longest running TV series he's ever starred in.)
 

Jarnhamar

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Pretty standard behavior when someone asks uncomfortable questions-insinuate they're a racist, even if they never mention race.

Trudeau Confronted in Quebec Over Illegal Border Crossings by Elderly Woman

While making his rounds in Quebec, Trudeau was recorded accusing a woman of racism for questioning his approach to illegal immigration

https://thenectarine.ca/politics/trudeau-confronted-in-quebec-over-illegal-border-crossings-by-elderly-woman/
 
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