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Iran Super Thread- Merged

With the highly expanded modalities of warfare, Israel's air force and strategic missiles are only one part of the equation (and even if they are highly visible and everyone fixates on them, they are not the only ones).

What is needed is a means to collapse the ability of Iran to threaten or project power without uniting the Iranian people behind the current regime. Direct attack is therefore the final option, and only to be used if there are no other options left (or to respond to an attack by Iranian missiles or proxy forces).

The current campaign against Iranian nuclear scientists and the cyberwar effort against the nuclear program show some of the other potential steps that can be taken. To topple the regime, you would need to rapidly escalate the economic misery of the people without overt outside influence, and at the same time degrade the command and control architecture to the point the Revolutionary Guards and Basji are paralyzed and out of contact with the regime. Shutting down the power and transport grids would also be positives in this sort of scenario.

Selective sabotage by SOF operators, arming and training elements of the Green Revolution, assasinating high ranking members of the Revolutionary Guards and Basji and introducing multiple computer virus into the banking, transportation, communications and industrial systems would all serve to disrupt the ability of Iran to carry out its hostile intentions, and disruption of banking and communication in particular would also serve to cut off Hezbollah and Hamas from their main source of supply and finance. Collapsing the internal banking system would bring people out into the streets, and disrupting the regime's communications while leaving open channels for the population could cause enough chaos to bring an end to the regime (although the question always remains what will take its place?)

As an aside, Iran does have some conventional force projection capabilites, but seems to have been deterred by unknown forces:

http://pjmedia.com/claudiarosett/the-mystery-of-irans-wandering-war-ships/

The Mystery of Iran’s Wandering War Ships
Posted By Claudia Rosett On February 21, 2012 @ 11:55 pm In Uncategorized | 39 Comments

Did they dock in Syria, or didn’t they? Last week, two Iranian war ships, a destroyer and a supply ship, passed through the Suez Canal into the Mediterranean. According to Iran’s government, they docked in the Syrian port of Tartus. According to the U.S. government, they did no such thing.

More specifically, on Saturday Iran’s state-owned PressTV reported that the two Iranian vessels had docked in the Syrian port of Tartus [1]. On Tuesday, a Pentagon spokesman [2], George Little, told the press, “We have absolutely no indication whatsoever the Iranian ships ever docked in Syrian ports.”

What’s going on here? One day there are two Iranian ships docking in Syria. Three days later, it seems that, like the Flying Dutchman, they never made port. Whatever they did during their swing through the eastern Mediterranean, they are now reported as having left the area, heading back through the Suez Canal.

These are not phantoms, or flyspecks invisible to the hi-tech eye. These are ships, substantial objects, which the U.S. certainly has the ability to track. I can’t claim to know what actually happened, and, alas, I have no inside sources here. So this is pure speculation. But it sounds as if the Iranian ships were indeed heading for Tartus,  and then ran into some reason to back off — leaving the Iranian government to  bluster that the ships had docked, rather than admit they’d chickened out.

If so, what might have blocked those ships? We know this much: There was no “Freedom Flotilla” launched from, say, Turkey, to try to deflect the arrival of Iranian war ships potentially stuffed with supplies for the terror-sponsoring regime of Syria’s dictator, Bashar al-Assad, now using heavy weapons against his own people. There was no naval blockade mandated by, say, the United Nations, where China and Russia are now blocking any Security Council resolution on Syria. There was no grand effort put forth by the combined naval forces of the Arab League.

Assuming that something, or someone, intervened in some way to persuade those ships to wave off, that was good work. I’d like to think that the deciding factor was a sharp warning from the U.S. —  though if that was the case, it would have been far better had America found a way to deter Iran before those ships ever entered the Suez Canal. Or, as with too many showdowns on the front lines of Tehran’s aggression, was the job, and the risk, left to the Israelis?

And if the Tartus docking was an Iranian lie, it does not obviate the fact that Iran’s regime felt free to send war ships through the Suez Canal for the second time in a year, and this time felt free to boast they’d docked in Syria. Within the propaganda fog are real ships, real guns, real threats. What next?

Article printed from The Rosett Report: http://pjmedia.com/claudiarosett

URL to article: http://pjmedia.com/claudiarosett/the-mystery-of-irans-wandering-war-ships/

URLs in this post:

[1] docked in the Syrian port of Tartus: http://presstv.com/detail/227298.html
[2] Pentagon spokesman: http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFL2E8DL7ZB20120221
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7AQ8m-7WPU

Israel owns the American Government . Search it your self who owns banks , who funds the campaigns for the presidents ?  UN is another puppet of America and Israel , I was wrong about saying " The UN " I should of said most countries of the " UN " . If Israel gets attacked or attacks it needs America's support a long side with the British and so on .... 
 
Bart905 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7AQ8m-7WPU

Israel owns the American Government . Search it your self who owns banks , who funds the campaigns for the presidents ?  UN is another puppet of America and Israel , I was wrong about saying " The UN " I should of said most countries of the " UN " . If Israel gets attacked or attacks it needs America's support a long side with the British and so on ....


Right, and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a standard reference text too, isn't it?

  :ignore:

 
Bart905 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7AQ8m-7WPU

Israel owns the American Government . Search it your self who owns banks , who funds the campaigns for the presidents ?  UN is another puppet of America and Israel , I was wrong about saying " The UN " I should of said most countries of the " UN " . If Israel gets attacked or attacks it needs America's support a long side with the British and so on ....

To think i was worried you might come up with something intelligent.
 
Thucydides said:
http://pjmedia.com/claudiarosett/the-mystery-of-irans-wandering-war-ships/

Misinformation has always served a purpose.
According to this article from Trade Newswire and shared with provisions of The copyright Act
they did dock at Tartus. Surely they did just wander around the Med like on some sort of cruise vacation.
But, if that be so, it only brings one thing to mind; Submarines.

Iranian ships docked at Syrian port lead to Israeli worries
http://www.tradenewswire.net/tag/maritime

The Israeli regime has publicized its worries about the presence of two Iranian naval ships at the Syrian port of Tartus, declaring that the ships would be watched “very closely” in case they come near its waters. “If the boats come near our territorial waters, we will monitor them very closely,” Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said on Sunday.

Two Iranian Navy ships docked at the Syrian port of Tartus on Saturday to provide maritime training to naval forces of Syria under an agreement signed between Tehran and Damascus a year ago.

article continues at link...
 
So the question becomes why did the US claim the ships did not dock in the Syrian port?
 
To reduce the expectations of their capabilities?
 
Thucydides said:
So the question becomes why did the US claim the ships did not dock in the Syrian port?

Good question.
I think it may be that the denial of such would undermine what may be seen as an
intended provocation by Iran, and if so,
well played.
 
Bart905 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7AQ8m-7WPU

Israel owns the American Government . Search it your self who owns banks , who funds the campaigns for the presidents ?  UN is another puppet of America and Israel , I was wrong about saying " The UN " I should of said most countries of the " UN " . If Israel gets attacked or attacks it needs America's support a long side with the British and so on ....

Oh boy... Not one of those again.  ::)
 
An ancient rivalry moves into the 21rst century:

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/65040

Turkey and Iran: Amidst the Smiles, A Rivalry Intensifies
February 23, 2012 - 11:37am, by Yigal Schleifer Iran Turkey EurasiaNet's Weekly Digest Geopolitics Iran

Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development Party appears to be recalibrating its Iran policy and increasingly distancing itself from the more vocal support it previously gave the Iranian regime. As the two powers tussle over Syria, Iraq and other issues, analysts warn that their rivalry for leadership in the Middle East is only likely to sharpen.

But, for now, at least officially, Turkey maintains that it is still committed to maintaining its outreach to Iran and moving beyond the mutual suspicions that characterized the two countries’ relations in decades past.

“We are doing our best to create the atmosphere for dialogue,” one senior Turkish diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity, told EurasiaNet.org. “Yes, we don’t agree about all issues with Iran -- about what’s happening in Iraq, in Syria -- but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t talk with them. We are expressing our concerns and reactions with them about everything face-to-face.”

Some recent statements from Turkish officials, though, suggest a more complex picture.

At a February 5 meeting of the Justice and Development Party, Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc delivered a blistering critique of Iran’s policy of support for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad despite the Syrian government’s bloody crackdown on opposition strongholds.

“I am addressing the Islamic Republic of Iran: I do not know if you are worthy of being called Islamic,” Arinc said, according to the Anatolia state news agency. “Have you said a single thing about what is happening in Syria?”

This tone represents quite a change from 2009, when Turkish President Abdullah Gül was among the first world leaders to congratulate Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad on his contested reelection, or in 2010, when Ankara put its relationship with Washington on the line by voting against Iran sanctions in the United Nations Security Council.

News coverage also comes with a sharper edge. The Turkish press has increasingly started running articles that cast suspicions on Iran’s intentions in the region and in Turkey, with some recent reports and columns suggesting that the Revolutionary Guards were planning attacks inside Turkey and that Iran is smuggling weapons through the country to Syria.

Hugh Pope, Turkey project director for the Brussels-based International Crisis Group, and one of the authors of a report on Iran and Turkey to be released on February 23, believes that Ankara’s more critical stance toward Iran indicates that “[t]he more hawkish faction in Ankara, the kind that thinks Iran is crossing the line in Syria and Iraq, is becoming more pronounced . . .”

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan “feels personally burned by the Iranians . . . ” Pope commented. “Erdoğan likes to have wins and the risks he took for Iran did not pay off, either in the US or Iran.”

But the two sides’ mutual wariness is not always consistent. An Iranian general earlier threatened a retaliatory strike if Turkey hosted a North Atlantic Treaty Organization missile radar, but, nonetheless, Tehran has also proposed Istanbul as a possible site for another round of talks about Iran’s nuclear research program.

Much of the Turkish-Iranian sparring is done instead via proxies. In Iraq, Turkey’s neighbor to the south, Ankara’s support for the Sunni Iraqiya alliance resulted in a falling out with Iranian-backed Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who has since gone on to accuse Ankara of “interfering” in Iraq’s internal affairs.

“There is quite a strong and growing rivalry between the two countries inside of Iraq, and it stems from having genuinely different interests,” said Sean Kane, a former UN official in Iraq and the author of a 2011 report on Turkish-Iranian competition in Iraq for the United States Institute of Peace.

“For Turkey, having a strong Iraq has historically been a bulwark against Kurdish separatism and Iranian adventurism. Iran looks at all of this very differently. A strong Iraq is a rival, and historically has been a hard security threat.”

Trade between Iran and Turkey, long a buffer against bad relations, also appears to offer little room for cooperation.

While trade between Turkey and Iran shot up from $1 billion in 2000 to $16 billion last year, most of that consists of Turkish imports of natural gas and oil. Joint ventures between Turkish and Iranian companies have failed to materialize and several large projects that were given to Turkish concerns ended up being taken away with little warning or explanation.

“I don't see Turkey's outreach to Iran working,” said an executive at a large Turkish trade organization. “There's no transparency or accountability in Iran. Turkish companies have had a very hard time penetrating the Iranian market.”

Despite Prime Minister Erdoğan’s multiple trips to the country, “Turkey didn’t get any deals out of Iran,” added the executive, who declined to be named. “Recent developments . . . will only make it harder.”

Still, despite the numerous points of friction and the growing rivalry, few observers expect outright conflict between Ankara and Tehran.

“I don’t think Turkey has any intent to fight Iran. In fact, it would like to avoid that at any cost,” said Turkish political analyst Soli Ozel, a professor of international relations at Istanbul’s Kadir Has University. “There are too many common interests between the two countries, although that’s never stopped them from competing fiercely in the region.”

What is most likely, Ozel said, is that Turkey and Iran will revert to the elaborate kind of diplomatic gamesmanship that has characterized the relations between these two regional powers and rivals for centuries.

“It’s all smiles between Turkey and Iran, but that’s very typical of the relationship between these two countries, which is competition and cooperation wrapped up in a total lack of trust.”

Editor's note: Yigal Schleifer is a freelance journalist who focuses on Turkey. He is the editor of Eurasianet's Turkofile and Kebabistan blogs.
 
The Green revolution asked for help, but were rebuffed or ignored. If there had been open support, it may have been enough to topple the regime and ignite the Arab Spring two years early (and perhaps on better terms for us, if the Muslim Brotherhoods and other radicals were cought by surprise or forced into the background by the knowledge a powerful West was supporting the liberal democratic revolutionaries. OF course, it could also have devolved into chaos; history is not an experiment we can reset and do again...

http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2012/02/27/obama-administration-ignored-iranian-oppositions-advice/?print=1

Obama Administration Ignored Iranian Opposition’s Advice
Posted By Michael Ledeen On February 27, 2012 @ 11:12 pm In Uncategorized | 59 Comments

When mass demonstrations against the Iranian regime erupted in the summer of 2009, the Obama administration found itself facing a totally unexpected problem.  President Obama had gone to great lengths to try to strike a bargain with the regime, and had ignored the internal opposition.  Now he suddenly needed a crash course on the regime’s domestic challengers, and possibly to try helping them.

The president had come to office promising to establish good relations [1] with the Islamic Republic, but no progress had (or has) been made [2].  Moreover, there was mounting public evidence of the Iranian role in both Iraq and Afghanistan, ranging from the provision of explosives and components of the murderous IEDs (the so-called “roadside bombs”), to training terrorists (who subsequently killed Americans) inside Iran, to supporting and housing al-Qaeda members, including relatives of Osama bin Laden, to sending officers and soldiers of the Revolutionary Guards Corps onto the battlefield (several hundred were in American military detention camps in Iraq).

The president was personally committed to reaching an accord with the leaders of the Iranian regime, and he had pursued this goal with considerable energy, both through traditional diplomatic channels, and more informal discussions.  Over time, the Swiss Foreign Ministry (which, in the absence of formal relations between Iran and the United States, has long served as the official middleman), the sultan of Oman, Iraqi President Talabani, and Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan have carried messages, suggested actions, and arranged tactical agreements (such as the release of the American hikers held hostage in Iran starting in July 2009).

American-Iranian relations have always involved a mix of semi-official meetings and secret middlemen, and the Obama administration was no exception.  Some “informal” and unannounced conversations took place (to the annoyance of the other participants) on the sidelines of several meetings between Iranians and the group of EU countries and the United States, dealing with the Iranian nuclear weapons program.  Others were conducted by the so-called “Track 2” teams of American and foreign policy wonks and former government officials, on the one side, and similar Iranians on the other.  These were confirmed by some of the participants, who insist on anonymity, but an American participant stressed that the Obama administration knew in advance of the meetings, and was briefed in considerable detail on the substance of the talks.  Nonetheless, when queried by Sara Carter of the Examiner — who writes today [3] about her own long investigation of these questions — the White House would not confirm knowledge of the Track 2 meetings, even though the existence of the Track 2 channel has been known for years [4].

There are also reports of a meeting as recently as last November in Turkey, involving a State Department official.  This, too, was officially denied.

Devoted as he was to reaching an agreement with Tehran, the president did not authorize any contacts with the leading component of the Iranian opposition, the so-called Green Movement, whose candidate for the presidency, Mir Hossein Mousavi, almost certainly won the elections of June 2009.  Throughout the eruptions of the summer and early fall, Mousavi and the other top leaders of the Greens received no communication from the U.S. government.

This was undoubtedly due to two factors:

–if such contacts were discovered by the regime, it would have made any deal with Tehran much more difficult;

–the U.S. intelligence community did not believe there was any serious possibility of regime change in Iran.  Top analysts told the policy makers that the regime was strong and stable, and any street demonstrations or labor protests would be ineffective, and short-lived.

This assessment proved erroneous — as would similar evaluations in subsequent uprisings in Arab countries — and as the demonstrations continued to roil the streets of Iran’s major cities, the administration was forced to at least consider the possibility of reaching out to the Iranian opposition.  They accordingly contacted “experts” in Europe and the United States for help.

They decided to try to secretly contact the Greens, and I have learned from persons with first-hand knowledge of the events that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton received help from an old friend and Senate colleague, Senator Chuck Schumer.  The New York senator knew a person — a distinguished Iranian-American with no history of political involvement, and with a reputation for impeccable honesty and morality — who had a way to contact the Green leaders.

According to a person familiar with the details of the process, Schumer’s acquaintance was asked to pass two questions to the Green leaders on behalf of the administration:  The Greens were given to understand that the questions came from the secretary of state.  The questions were: “What should we do?  What should we NOT do?”

They were good questions, and they were passed through at least two persons, both known to me, one in the United States, the other in Europe. The person in Europe is well known and admired by the Greens, who now faced a very delicate problem.  It was one of Obama’s problems in reverse:  if any exchange between the Greens and the administration leaked out, the consequences might be very grave.  On the other hand, it would not do to ignore such questions from such a source.

The reply is in the form of a lengthy memorandum, dated November 30, 2009.

You can read it here. [5]

As you will see, it was written very carefully.  It is unsigned, and there is no hint of the author’s (or authors’) identity (I have good reason to believe that several people worked on it).  Instead of answering the two questions directly, the memo presents a snapshot of Iran under a theocratic tyranny, which is described in very harsh terms (“It is as if the ‘Divine Right of Kings’ were to be reestablished in the West,” and, later on, “the regime is a brutal, apocalyptic theocratic dictatorship that tries to survive by means of suppression of its own people, military force, theft of national resources and economic stealth”).  The memo says that the regime cannot change;  like all totalitarian regimes it cannot be reformed.  But the memo insists that the forces for change within Iran are strong and well led.

It cautions that any agreement with the regime would require the United States to recognize the legitimacy of the regime, promise to maintain silence on questions of human rights inside the country, and abandon the Middle East.  And even if the regime promised to abandon its nuclear program and cease its support for terror, it would not honor these commitments.  It needs both terror and nukes in order to survive.

So far as I can tell, the demands for American silence on Iranian affairs, recognition of the regime’s legitimacy, and withdrawal from the region are precisely what  the Obama administration has received through all their contacts with the Iranian regime.

Finally, the Greens pointedly present the American government with its real options:

“…at this pivotal point in time, it is up to the countries of the free world to make up their mind. Will they continue on the track of wishful thinking and push every decision to the future until it is too late, or will they reward the brave people of Iran and simultaneously advance Western interests and world peace?”

The memo, all eight pages of it, was delivered to Schumer’s friend/acquaintance, who undoubtedly passed it to the senator.  The State Department says they know nothing about the memo. And the Obama administration, like all its predecessors since the revolution of 1979, has done nothing serious for the people of Iran.

An unnamed State Department official says “most leaders in the Green Movement made clear they did not desire financial or other support from the United States,” and adds that the United States doesn’t give “financial” support to any opposition group in Iran.  Hillary actually put the entire blame for the lack of American support on the victims themselves:

…we wanted to be full-hearted in favor of what was going on inside Iran, and we kept being cautioned that we would put people’s lives in danger, we would discredit the movement, we would undermine their aspirations. I think if something were to happen again, it would be smart for the Green Movement or some other movement inside Iran to say, “We want the voices of the world. We want the support of the world behind us.”

Yet anyone reading the memo can see that its clear message is that the West should support the Iranian opposition.

There was no feedback to the Greens.  The entire exchange consists of Schumer’s two questions and the Greens’ memorandum.

What are we to make of the administration’s denials (and Schumer’s refusal to respond to any and all questions about the matter)?  An administration that won’t even discuss such a well-documented phenomenon as Track 2 talks is hard to believe on more delicate matters.  Nonetheless, it is quite possible that people outside Iran, claiming to represent the Green Movement, asked the administration to stay away, which would justify the State Department’s carefully worded statement “most leaders…did not desire…support.”  If so, it’s yet another intelligence failure, since the top Green leaders in Iran have said over and over again that they have no representatives and no spokesmen outside their country.

The administration may also be telling the (technical) truth when they say they are unaware of this memo.  Schumer’s friend, or Schumer himself, may have reasoned that it was too long for a busy policy maker, and edited out some of the historical and/or theological discussions.  If anyone in Congress or in the press wishes to pursue the matter, they should be careful how they phrase the question.  The administration should be asked if they received “any or all” of the document, and Senator Schumer should be asked in a private session about his role in the affair, which seems entirely honorable.

Of course, there is a scandal here.  A terrible policy scandal.  The Obama administration didn’t do — and still hasn’t done — anything to help the opposition in Iran.  The Green Movement’s top leaders have been held in solitary confinement for more than a year.  Thousands of dissidents, journalists, bloggers, and normal citizens have been imprisoned, tortured, and executed, and the dreadful repression continues apace, as does the terror war against us and our soldiers on the battlefield.  The president has still not called for an end to the monstrous theocratic tyranny.  Instead, he has catered to the needs of the evil regime, at the cost of American lives, our national security, and his personal legacy.

He should have listened to the Greens in 2009 when they asked rhetorically: “Will (the countries of the West) continue on the track of wishful thinking and push every decision to the future until it is too late?”

So far, he has done just that, and thereby become an accomplice to evil.

Article printed from Faster, Please!: http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen

URL to article: http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/2012/02/27/obama-administration-ignored-iranian-oppositions-advice/

URLs in this post:

[1] promising to establish good relations: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/12/us/politics/12iran.html
[2] no progress had (or has) been made: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/world/middleeast/23nuke.html?pagewanted=all
[3] writes today: http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/world/2012/02/secret-memo-suggests-white-house-ignored-sos-iranian-opposition/318891
[4] known for years: http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/track-ii-diplomacy
[5] read it here.: http://pjmedia.com/michaelledeen/files/2012/02/memo_to_US_from_Greens_20091.pdf
 
A very reasonable opinion piece, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Ottawa Citizen

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/editorial-cartoons/index.html
6223557.bin
 
Some interesting speculation on Israel's deception plans in this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/worldview/israels-vow-of-silence-on-iran-strike-may-be-a-message-to-washington/article2352400/
Israel’s vow of silence on Iran strike may be a message to Washington

PAUL KORING

Washington— Globe and Mail Update
Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2012

If Israeli warplanes attack Iran’s nuclear sites, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu plans to keep President Barack Obama in the dark, according to senior American intelligence officials.

Given the mutual antipathy – verging on open disdain – between the two leaders, such a snub might seem unsurprising. But far more is at stake than the chilliest relations between an American president and an Israeli leader since the United States backstopped the creation of the Jewish State six decades ago.

Claiming it will keep Washington ignorant about any decision to bomb Iran’s nuclear sites – Israeli’s openly mooted option of pre-emptive attacks to keep Tehran’s ruling mullahs from getting nuclear weapons – may be more about posturing than any military reality.

Previous Israeli attacks on nuclear sites – in Iraq in 1981 and Syria in 2007 – were single-strike events, against much-closer Arab countries with far-weaker air defences and all of their, still-under-construction, nuclear facilities clustered at one target site. Whether Washington was tipped off in advance remains an official secret but in neither case was American connivance needed. So plausible deniability remained.

Attacking Iran poses a vastly bigger, far riskier military operation. Unless Israel plans to use its own nuclear bombs, destroying Iran’s multiple, dispersed, and sometimes deeply-buried nuclear sites will require days – perhaps weeks – of repeated air strikes with special bunker-busting bombs. It will be an bombing campaign, not a single attack.

The military complexity and difficulty of wreaking lasting damage on Tehran’s hidden, heavily-defended nuclear installations is daunting.

It would be even for the American military, which has hundreds of warplanes already based in neighbouring Afghanistan, just across the narrow Persian Gulf and aboard aircraft carriers off Iran’s shores.

For Israeli warplanes to reach targets in Iran they would need to fly thousands of kilometres, refuel multiple times and flout the sovereignty of one or more of Turkey, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia –all U.S. allies. Even the first strike would take many hours across airspace under constant American surveillance.

Even if Israel’s first strike managed to catch Washington (as well as Tehran) by surprise, the military reality remains that any and all follow-on strikes would require – at very least – a decision by the Obama administration to sit by as the threat of a full-blown Middle East war unfolded.

Yet Israeli leaders have reportedly made oft-repeated, and unambiguous warnings to Washington that it won’t tell Mr. Obama before striking Tehran.

According to the Associated Press, Mr. Netanyahu and Defence Minister Ehud Barak have delivered that message to high-level U.S. visitors, including the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the White House national security adviser, the director of national intelligence and top U.S. lawmakers.

The White House and Pentagon declined to respond to the report.

Mr. Obama has said he will do whatever is necessary to prevent Tehran’s ruling mullahs from acquiring nuclear weapons. And, as is Oval Office routine, the president has pointedly said that “all options,” meaning military action if necessary, remain on the table.

But previous presidents, both Democrat and Republican, made the same not-so-veiled threats about North Korea and yet failed to prevent Pyongyang from joining the nuclear weapons club.

Tehran insists its nuclear program is purely for peaceful purposes.

Israel regards Iran as an existential threat – not least because Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has called for the end of the Jewish state.

Both Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Barak are due in Washington over the next 10 days. With Mr. Obama’s Republican rivals accusing him of being soft on Tehran and vowing tougher action to keep Iran from getting nuclear weapons, the latest Israeli sabre-rattling may be intended to send a message to Washington as much as Tehran.


A few points:

1. Israeli-American relations are far deeper and far more complex than Obama/Netanyahu - Israel is loved and loathed, in almost equal measure, in the White House (more loathed than loved), the Congress (more loved than loathed), the Pentagon (more loathed than loved) and the public at large (more loved than loathed).

2. Israel needs American support if there is to be a conventional "bunker busting" bombing campaign.

3. A conventional "bunker busting" campaign increases the risk of Russian involvement and that gives the US, especially the Pentagon, leverage which the Israelis hate to give to anyone - especially the Pentagon. It begs the question: why take that risk? Why not "go ugly early" and use a nuclear first strike ~ maybe ten or fifteen of 'em?
 
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to dig a bomb shelter in my back yard and wait for the world to implode over this...
 
Technoviking said:
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to dig a bomb shelter in my back yard and wait for the world to implode over this...


I'm not so sure ... let's say the Israelis can acquire suitable targets for and can deliver, pretty much simultaneously: 5X Hiroshima warheads; 5 X Hiroshima X 10 warheads; and 5 X Hiroshima X 50 warheads. That would set Tehran's nuclear projects  back several years, at least, and might topple the whole political edifice. Who would retaliate and how? Russia? And risk a real, shooting war with the USA (and maybe China, just because it would be a wonderful opportunity)? What would be the downstream consequences? Dreadful for Iran, to be sure, but for everyone else? Not so bad ... stop digging, TV, buy stocks in big international construction (think UN funded cleanup and reconstruction) companies.
 
I'm certainly not going to debate hypothetical scenarios, but I question if the Israelis have the ability to even deliver the 15 devices, unless their missile capability is pretty well developed. In any case, there always is the chance that the big powers might not just agree to swat the fly after the first nukes fly. If I was doing the targeting estimate - aka the fire plan - I might have a hard look at taking out the national command infrastructure or the power grid or . . . instead, and perhaps by conventional means.

I would love to say that hopefully a peaceful solution will be found, but hoping is not a very effective way of resolving difficult issues.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
I'm not so sure ... let's say the Israelis can acquire suitable targets for and can deliver, pretty much simultaneously: 5X Hiroshima warheads; 5 X Hiroshima X 10 warheads; and 5 X Hiroshima X 50 warheads. That would set Tehran's nuclear projects  back several years, at least, and might topple the whole political edifice. Who would retaliate and how? Russia? And risk a real, shooting war with the USA (and maybe China, just because it would be a wonderful opportunity)? What would be the downstream consequences? Dreadful for Iran, to be sure, but for everyone else? Not so bad ... stop digging, TV, buy stocks in big international construction (think UN funded cleanup and reconstruction) companies.
I'll have options.  I'll buy stocks in those corporations AND dig.  Best of both worlds.  "just in case"...
 
Holy hell I hope Canada sends troops to join our American brothers in this venture of freedom.
 
Do you really thing we, the US led West, need another war in the Middle East?

What would be the aim?

If it just to topple the current theocrats and leave a rubble heap for the next gang to clean up, à la Afghanistan in 2002 or Libya in 2011, then, yes, maybe, there is some useful military role ... but we've been in Afghanistan for 10 years now ... did we win? Do we know what "win" means?
 
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