Is it time to list ANTIFA as a criminal or terrorist organization?

[Jarnhamar]

I’m not trying to paint them as victims at all. Antifa don’t claim to be non-violent, their preferred methods are ordinary protests, doxxing and other forms of digital protests. they actually said they will use violence if the situation justifies it…such as, among other things, when they are attacked

I'm having difficulty seeing your point. Maybe it's just going over my head but it feels like your're underselling how aggressive antifa can be. They don’t just wait to be attacked, actively seek confrontation, vandalize property, and use intimidation against people they oppose.

Even if it’s not on the scale of groups like the Proud Boys (I don't really see or hear anything from them), antifa’s willingness to justify violence whenever they feel it’s ‘necessary’ makes them more than just a protest movement. Antifa normalizes political violence just the same. It's very easy to find random videos of antifa protestors instigating violence against people.

Antifa gangs have the same energy as Islamic attacking people because someone in the back of the crowd accused a person of burning the Quran.

 

[Genetk44]

I'm having difficulty seeing your point. Maybe it's just going over my head but it feels like your're underselling how aggressive antifa can be. They don’t just wait to be attacked, actively seek confrontation, vandalize property, and use intimidation against people they oppose.

Even if it’s not on the scale of groups like the Proud Boys (I don't really see or hear anything from them), antifa’s willingness to justify violence whenever they feel it’s ‘necessary’ makes them more than just a protest movement. Antifa normalizes political violence just the same. It's very easy to find random videos of antifa protestors instigating violence against people.

Antifa gangs have the same energy as Islamic attacking people because someone in the back of the crowd accused a person of burning

I'm having difficulty seeing your point. Maybe it's just going over my head but it feels like your're underselling how aggressive antifa can be. They don’t just wait to be attacked, actively seek confrontation, vandalize property, and use intimidation against people they oppose.

Even if it’s not on the scale of groups like the Proud Boys (I don't really see or hear anything from them), antifa’s willingness to justify violence whenever they feel it’s ‘necessary’ makes them more than just a protest movement. Antifa normalizes political violence just the same. It's very easy to find random videos of antifa protestors instigating violence against people.

Antifa gangs have the same energy as Islamic attacking people because someone in the back of the crowd accused a person of burning the Quran.

My point is that while Antifa are not all kumbya, sandal-wearing anti-nazi,anti-racism non-violent protestors neither are they the violent rabid mad-dogs that those on the right want to paint as terrorists. Most of us get our info from curated news soundbites put out by our preferred media outlets and from various social media posts again from our preferred social media outlets…..so our views on groups like Antifa or Proud Boys get aligned to what we see on those outlets. Unfortunately the great majority of people go no further than that, while only a minority do dig deeper that just news media and social media and try to do some real unbiased research.

 

[Jarnhamar]

But they act and behave like the definition of terrorists conducting terrorism.

They're not placed on a terrorist entity list because they lack structure and official organization.

 

[Lumber]

The problem I have with the decision by POTUS to brand them as terrorists is the same problem that I have with Antifa itself; who gets to decide who is fascist, and who gets to decide who is Antifa?

For the former, I've seen "anti-fascists" (not necessarily self-described members of Antifa) describe a fascist as everything from a neo-nazis to someone who agrees with any of Trumps policies. There was even a meme at one point, "Have you punched a Nazis today?". I wouldn't be upset if I heard of someone punching a neo-Nazi, but what about punching someone who was just advocating for a reduction in immigration quotas?

On the latter, there are those who parade around in shirts wearing the commonly used Antifa logo and waving the same logo on a flag. Ok, even if Antifa isn't a formal group, you couldn't definitely point to those people and say "they are Antifa". But what about someone who has no affiliation with any political activistic group, but joins a counter-protest against a group of people advocating for the forced expulsion of recent immigrants? Is that person "Antifa"? What if during the demonstration they get into a scuffle with one of the anti-immigration activists? Does their becoming violent now make them "Antifa"? I guess I'd have to ask @ArmyRick...

 

[brihard]

The problem I have with the decision by POTUS to brand them as terrorists is the same problem that I have with Antifa itself; who gets to decide who is fascist, and who gets to decide who is Antifa?

For the former, I've seen "anti-fascists" (not necessarily self-described members of Antifa) describe a fascist as everything from a neo-nazis to someone who agrees with any of Trumps policies. There was even a meme at one point, "Have you punched a Nazis today?". I wouldn't be upset if I heard of someone punching a neo-Nazi, but what about punching someone who was just advocating for a reduction in immigration quotas?

On the latter, there are those who parade around in shirts wearing the commonly used Antifa logo and waving the same logo on a flag. Ok, even if Antifa isn't a formal group, you couldn't definitely point to those people and say "they are Antifa". But what about someone who has no affiliation with any political activistic group, but joins a counter-protest against a group of people advocating for the forced expulsion of recent immigrants? Is that person "Antifa"? What if during the demonstration they get into a scuffle with one of the anti-immigration activists? Does their becoming violent now make them "Antifa"? I guess I'd have to ask @ArmyRick...

I’m perplexed by Trump’s announcement. I’m not sure what “designating” Antifa as a “major terrorist organization” actually means. Unlike Canada, with our terrorist entity listing process, the U.S. does not (to the best of my knowledge) have any mechanism for formally designating domestic groups as terrorist organizations, major or otherwise. I understand it to be a First Amendment free speech issue. So, all of our discussion here about the merits of any such designation notwithstanding, in the U.S. there’s a much more fundamental issue of what law do they purport to do that under? Kinda has a “Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy” feel to it right now.