Islam and Western Society

[AbdullahD]

Yea it is I find it pretty stupid myself but I was curious what you though when it's done for cultural reasons specific to Islam.

Maybe we're going the wrong way with that and me and you can start a change.org petition and put and end to segregation.
But that's an issue that's popping up here and there in the news. Muslim students wanting gender specific accommodations.

https://www.rt.com/news/350800-handshake-hamburg-muslim-teacher/  (Story from Germany rather than Canada but easy to see it happen here)

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/york-university-dean-who-granted-students-request-to-keep-from-female-classmates-says-he-wishes-he-had-another-choice

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/teen-felt-degraded-after-teacher-divided-aikido-classes-by-gender-following-male-students-religious-request

So safe to assume you think the accommodations made int he links above are wrong?

You are very safe in assuming that my friend.

But dont get me wrong I am well aware of groups claiming that 'Islam' requires this or that or the next thing... when Islam has no such requirement. So gender segregation in a very many cases is not needed and counter productive.

Regarding swimming.. I can not understand why it is needed if the awrah is covered. To be bluntly honest I am of an opinion that the awrah rules are relaxed for swimming in this day and age. If a women wears a one piece suit and say shorts or some such combo, then that is good enough. My wife knows more on this topic then I, so I personally follow her lead on it and this is how she goes to the waterpark/pools with my kids.

 

[Remius]

We already have gender segregated facilities everywhere, gyms, martial arts schools/classes, expeditions trips, races, schools etc etc.

This is more of a gender issue than a cultural issue.  Sometimes the lines are blurred but none of this is unique to Islam.

 

[mariomike]

Anyway, it seems the courts in France have put an end to this ban:  http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/burkini-ban-france-overturned-1.3736823

It was set to expire at the end of the month,

The ban remains in place until 31 August 2016
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37171749

For the remaining five days, Nice PD could cross out Burkini and insert "budgie smuggler" on the original. They could keep on ticketing and make up the lost municipal income. < just kidding 

This is more of a gender issue than a cultural issue.  Sometimes the lines are blurred but none of this is unique to Islam.

I was stationed in a predominantly Jewish district. My partner was Jewish. So is my wife.

There were Sabbath rules, Hatzalah, language, religion, cultural and gender considerations. ( On the job, not at home. )

I guess it's like you say, "None of this is unique to Islam." 

 

[Jarnhamar]

We already have gender segregated facilities everywhere, gyms, martial arts schools/classes, expeditions trips, races, schools etc etc.

This is more of a gender issue than a cultural issue.  Sometimes the lines are blurred but none of this is unique to Islam.

For sure, do away with all that segregation crap completely. 

Non-Binary Transgenders will just have to get along with Androgynous and gender fluid types   The context of the martial arts class was seeking gender accommodations in a mixed class.


Also to add OGBD summed up what I was tying to say in the other Islam thread about religious accommodations perfectly. 

 

[mariomike]

US Muslims prep for Islamic holiday around 9/11
https://www.icna.org/us-muslims-prep-for-islamic-holiday-around-911/
NEW YORK — The lunar calendar that Muslims follow for religious holidays is creating a potential for misunderstandings or worse in a year when American Muslims are already confronting a spike in assaults on their faith and protests against new mosques.

What important event could occur on 9/11? Eid al-Adha — the feast of sacrifice, an important holiday for Muslims. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/29/nyregion/muslim-holiday-eid-al-adha-sept-11.html?smid=tw-nytmetro&smtyp=cur&_r

 

[Lightguns]

For sure, do away with all that segregation crap completely. 

Non-Binary Transgenders will just have to get along with Androgynous and gender fluid types   The context of the martial arts class was seeking gender accommodations in a mixed class.


Also to add OGBD summed up what I was tying to say in the other Islam thread about religious accommodations perfectly.

Non-Binary,
Androgynous,
Gender Fluid,

I identify as a Homo Erectus.  You Homo Sapiens got a lot strange stuff going on, us Homo Erectus are in much better shape. 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

To my knowledge this is already happening in Canada and the USA and not because of Muslims. So I have no issues at all with it and do not see why it is an issue.

Well then I say that is a weird culture, I prefer Islam

Aisha ra, the prophets wife is considered amongst one of the greatest Islamic teachers of all time and... she taught men. They are other examples too, but suffice to say I do not care what sex a teacher is and I think those that do... are interesting. I personally want the best teachers for me and my kids, no matter which sex they are.

Apparently she was quite critical when the Prophet received a divine blessing to marry his adopted son wife (divorced by the son so Muhammad could marry her).

 

[AbdullahD]

Apparently she was quite critical when the Prophet received a divine blessing to marry his adopted son wife (divorced by the son so Muhammad could marry her).

Zaynab was Zaid's (adopted son's) ex wife and was not divorced so that the Prophet  pbuh could marry her. Zaid and Zaynab simply did not get along, so after the divorce the prophet recieved revelation that it was permissible to marry his adopted sons ex wife, which was something that arab customs at that time considered forbidden.

Many things support the story that Zaynab and Zaid's marriage naturally fell apart and was not forced apart. A few key pieces is one that Zaynab originally refused the Marriage to Zaid supoorted by her brother I believe, another is that Zaynab was from a high class family of the qureysh and Zaid was an ex slave. Also Zaynab under the encouragement from the Prophet married Zaid and the prophet paid the dowery...

So it can hardly be said that Zaid divorced her just so the prophet could marry her. In my opinion. So the first marriage was to establish the legitimacy of adopted sons and ex slaves and the second marriage was to show it was permissible to marry your ex sons wife, if you desire.

Abdullah

Ps it is allowed to be critical of the Prophet within reason. Even Allah himself criticized him in the Quran, for ignoring a Muslim. Anywho the competition between Zaynab and Aisha is well known, no doubt she would be critical of her.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Yes, I know I read somewhere that one (can't recall which one) of the prophet's wife claimed that the prophet could somehow, amazingly and suddenly "receive revelations" to support exactly what he wanted to do, but was against the rules of the times - until the revelation changed the matter.

Sheer coincidence though!

;D

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=AbdullahD]
Many things support the story that Zaynab and Zaid's marriage naturally fell apart and was not forced apart.[/quote]

So it can hardly be said that Zaid divorced her just so the prophet could marry her.

Sorry dude I don't think anyone is buying that. Just doing a little bit of google research it sounds like the Prophet Muhammad had a lot of sex with pretty much anyone and everyone he wanted to.

Ps it is allowed to be critical of the Prophet within reason.

Again I kind of doubt it.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/65013/Two-Muslim-men-jailed-after-brutally-attacking-couple-because-they-ordered-a-blasphemous-ham-pizza
Thursday, 1 September 2016
Two Muslim men jailed after brutally attacking couple because they ordered a ‘blasphemous’ ham pizza

Two Muslim men have been jailed after they brutally attacked a couple for eating a “blasphemous” ham pizza. Youness Boussaid and Fatah Bouzid, both 27, approached their victims at a food vendor near Le Mix Bar in in Douai, France, and offered them cocaine. When the two Arab men noticed ham on the couple’s pizza they told them they would “go to hell” for eating it.

After being accused of eating the ham, which is forbidden in the Islamic religion, the couple suffered a brutal and humiliating ordeal from their attackers. The attackers caressed the woman’s blond hair before forcing their fingers into her nose, causing her to lose consciousness and fall to the ground. They then began to beat her male friend before security staff from Le Mix Bar intervened.

Seriously? A little cocaine is a-okay but don't eat ham.  Followers of Islam need to chill out with that shit.

 

[Lumber]

Followers of Islam need to chill out with that crap.

This story has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. You could find a thousand similar incidents of hypocrisy involving members of every other religion.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

However when you have 1.6billion followers and 1-3% are full nutbar and another 20% will support them in one way or another to take over the world using violence and subversion, you still have a big problem. Islam currently has active conflicts which are killing people with just about every other major religion right now. I can't recall any other religion that can claim that.

 

[Journeyman]

Sorry, I've got to back the druggies on this one.  Ham doesn't go on pizza, and those cheese-eating, surrender monkeys probably should  go to hell for it.    :nod:

 

[Lightguns]

Sorry dude I don't think anyone is buying that. Just doing a little bit of google research it sounds like the Prophet Muhammad had a lot of sex with pretty much anyone and everyone he wanted to.

Isn't funny how folks that go around with the prophet title seemed to get laid a lot?

 

[McG]

Sorry, I've got to back the druggies on this one.  Ham doesn't go on pizza, and those cheese-eating, surrender monkeys probably should  go to hell for it.    :nod: 

No.  You are thinking pineapple.  Pineapple does not go on pizza.

 

[Lumber]

No.  You are thinking pineapple.  Pineapple does not go on pizza.

Thems fightin' words.  :threat:

 

[AbdullahD]

Sorry dude I don't think anyone is buying that.

A brief bio of the prophets wife Zaynab
http://www.islamswomen.com/articles/zaynab_bint_jahsh.php

A brief bio of Zaid the prophets adopted son
http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=10821

Looks like an article refuting critics
http://www.answering-christianity.com/umar/zaynab_bint_jahsh.htm

Just doing a little bit of google research it sounds like the Prophet Muhammad had a lot of sex with pretty much anyone and everyone he wanted to.

For you my friend, it is delightfully trollish
http://www.answering-christianity.com/womanizer.htm

Sex etiquette in Islam (what is encouraged to do)
https://islamqa.info/en/5560

Concubines and sex slaves (im  not sure if the article notes Umar ra abolished slaves)
http://islamicresponse.blogspot.ca/2011/06/islam-on-slave-girlsconcubines.html?m=1

Rebuttal about the article on Mariya which is a common source of these allegations
http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/rebuttaltoalisina9.htm

Again I kind of doubt it.

Allah Reprimands the prophet
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1394&Itemid=136

Muhammad a sinner?
http://www.answering-christianity.com/mo-sinner_rebuttal.htm

Now I can not find online the stories about the Prophet pbuh being criticized or fighting with his wives. It is in fazail'e'amaal by Maulana khandlavi. If you wish to buy the book and verify what I say.

Also I could not find online articles about the sahabah being critical or offering opinions against what the prophet thought regarding warfare and the prophet changing his opinion due to the criticism. You can find stories of this in Hayatus Sahabah by Maulana khandlavi as well.

I honestly deal with books more then the internet, it is just something delightful about sitting down with a 'real' book... also I am in a hurry today.

Seriously? A little cocaine is a-okay but don't eat ham.  Followers of Islam need to chill out with that crap.

Now I am not going to say to eat ham because you are already doing cocaine... but you're right imho if you are doing illegal drugs you have no right to be critical verbal or physically of someone who eats haram... and to physically attack the person is utter stupidity.

Judge not, lest you be judged.

Abdullah

Ps you guys post to fast lol

 

[Loachman]

No.  You are thinking pineapple.  Pineapple does not go on pizza.

But the double anchovies, double olives, and double hot peppers are not the same without pineapple.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Many years ago, during the Vietnam war, an American P-3C Orion was carrying out a standard coastal patrol off the Eastern shores of Vietnam in support of the then deployed aircraft carrier battle group.

Fairly suddenly, as happened in that area frequently, a large thunderstorm developed and, in view of their patrol line, the orion had to skirt it but go in somewhat to maintain station.

As sure as the sun rises, midway through the transit, the Orion got hit by lightning and all the on board electrical systems tripped. The flight engineer got up and, proceeding forward to aft, walked through the plane reseting all the fuses.

As he walked through the galley, and switched the lights back on, he walked by one of the sensor operators on his break, still standing befuddled, sandwich in hand with but one bite taken out of it. The engineer grabbed the sandwich from his hand, opened it and looked at the contents, put it back together, handed it back to the operator and told him: "Don't you ever have another one of those sandwich if your flying on my plane!" The operator's name was Salomon, he was of the Jewish faith and the sandwich was a ham and cheese one.

Ham: The Gods' instrument of destruction!  [

And, MCG and Journeyman, you are both wrong (and I guess Loachman too): It's anchovies, anchovies that don't go on pizza. Snap out of it!  :facepalm:

 

[Jarnhamar]

Isn't funny how folks that go around with the prophet title seemed to get laid a lot?

Yup. This Christian nut-bars come to mind.

This story has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. You could find a thousand similar incidents of hypocrisy involving members of every other religion.

Muslim men attacking a couple because the couple had pork product on their pizza, which us forbidden under Islam, has nothing to do with Islam?

Sure it does, but I'll concede somewhat and state the obvious that of course anyone attacking human beings over silly religious tenants  are morons. It seems to be pretty prevalent in Islam however and example of issues with Islam in Western Society.