Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)

[FJAG]

I don't blame people for leaving shitholes, the places you only mentioned as having nice weather, to come here. We have/had a great thing going.

But you only have to look at the link @Jarnhamar posted to see what happens when critical mass of culture and politics swings.

I certainly appreciate the issue. It's a two part problem for Canada. Part 1 is that Canada needs immigrants to continue to maintain its population and grow its economy and Part 2 is that the mass of immigrants to the country come from "non traditional" immigrant sources and who are bringing a diversity of culture to the country. IMHO, the primary way to prevent the type of situation that @Jarnhamar puts forward (and it concerns me too) is primarily through a strong constitutional mandate of secularism and prohibition against religious-based legislation/regulation. Secondly, there needs to be a better control on balancing the influx of immigrants so that not too large a group of one religious or cultural group becomes dominant.

I think we already have a wide swing in politics when you see some of the LPC policies many of which go too far but in their minds do not go far enough yet.

Amusing as that is, I fear he may goad "them" into accepting the challenge of creating an accredited profession of social media experts, mostly to be populated by misfits with low academic potential who have been educated in "grievance studies".

I spent eight years as an active bencher for the Law Society of Manitoba and think that I have a pretty good handle on how professional discipline works. IMHO, his governing body is nuts. I like Peterson. He's definitely a burr under the skin of many folks, but he asks the right questions. I disagree with some things he puts forward but find myself agreeing with many others. What's going on, IMHO, seems to be a witch hunt being driven by some very thin skinned folks. I'm not surprised the courts didn't intervene. The law is very strongly written giving administrative bodies wide discretion in how they handle their business.

OTOH, I've been following some of the changes in the various provinces human rights legislation as well as the professional codes for Manitoba and Ontario and am somewhat concerned that they too are tightening up things which IMHO are becoming prohibitive of folks who take unpopular positions. The problem with all of these things is that like any group, these professions consist of two groups of people. The first group is the mass of them - the average Joe's who just want to get on with their jobs and generally do not involve themselves in governance. The second group is the dangerous one. That's that small group of radicals that wants to change the world (in one direction or the other) and are more than happy to get involved and vocally stand for election for positions on these governing bodies. From time to time there are enough of them to cause radical change. It's been that way for a long time and most of the changes of the past have been acceptable but we've entered an age where the boundaries are being pushed more and more to favour certain niche special interest groups.

Here's the answer. Get involved at governance at all levels and take control. And, I say again, strong constitutional safeguards for secularism now.

 

[CBH99]

99% is a hell of a confidence interval. Do you have something to base this on other than a hunch?

My hunch is based on the last 4 years of having essentially a non-existent southern border, with thousands of illegal migrants crossing that border every single day...

The CBP One app, which allows illegal migrants to check in with Customs & Border Patrol before they even arrive, to help get themselves processed faster once they show up.

Currently almost all migrants showing up at the southern border are released into the country pending their court date, and the current wait time until that court date rolls around is approximately 5 years down the road. (5 freaking years!)

A vast majority of them come in with no ID. A vast majority of them coming in are fighting aged males.

But we are also seeing quite a few people from Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, and Sudan coming up through the Darian Gap route also - all facilitated by United Nations camps along the way.

Who is paying their way? Air travel isn't cheap these days, especially when flying across the globe. How are these people flying to Panama, Ecuador, and Venezuela?

The cost of the air travel alone for a distance that far would allow those people to buy a pretty goos life for themselves much closer to home, yet when they arrive in the US they barely have a few bucks in their pocket...


...


We also see a high volume & steady flow of young fighting age Chinese males coming up. They seem to have their own route thats distinctly different than the route being taken by everybody else, but seem to end up at the same camps along the way.

At least some must be PLA and MSS. China would be foolish NOT to take advantage of the situation...

...

And so far, roughly a dozen or so people on the terrorism watchlist have been apprehended coming across the border. But how many have made it across that didn't get caught??

Given the source countries of where these people are coming from, I'm guessing there's been at least a few...


For example, the Taliban are now once again the legitimate government of Afghanistan and are responsible for issuing Afghan passports. Yet every Thursday their passport office is closed because it is 'Holy Warrior Day' where only those who wish to fight the West are permitted in to get their passports issued - I shit you not.

The US also sends the Taliban anywhere from $40M to $87M per week...

Nope, I'm not making that up. The money is flown to Afghanistan in cash each week where it goes through a pretty primitive process and eventually ends up in Afghan currency.

I'm also not making up the fact that one of the key players in this was/is a key member of the Haqqani network, and currently has a $10M bounty on his head from the US State Dept...


The southern border has seen a steady flow of Afghan males entering the country for quite some time now, and it begs the question...who is funding all these young Afghan males to fly across the globe? Who is funding all these folks from around Africa to fly all the way over?

And why would they foot the bill for all that air travel? (Maybe I'm being cynical, but I don't think it's out of the goodness of their hearts...)

...


The US is also, by and large, an easy country for one to source a few firearms. Depending on what state one finds themselves in, there might not be a whole lot of background checks or other gatekeeping entities to ensure the wrong people don't get guns.

And if a certain group is smart, they'll be sourcing their firearms via proxys & middlemen to keep their activities under the radar. Not only does that allow them to arm in relative secrecy, but if suspicion is around it'll be the middle men who get scooped up.

If Venezuelan street gangs & local affiliates of cartels can source guns, these guys will also be able to source guns.


...


I also base my hunch on what's already started to happen.

Venezuelan street gangs going door to door in an apartment complex in Aurora, Colorado as they took over the complex - demanding tenants start paying their rent to them.

Another affiliate of that same street gang violently robbing a jewelry store (can't remember what city that was in tho)

(Or for an example closer to home, the pro Hamas gathering in Vancouver to mark the anniversary of the Oct 7 slaughter in Israel - openly calling for death to Canada, the US, and Israel - while lighting flags on fire, tearing them apart, and stomping on them - and the crowd erupting in applause, and repeating the chants of the narrator...)


...


Now imagine those weren't Venezuelan gang members going door to door to extort rent from the tenants, or to violently rob the store of its cash and valuables.

Instead imagine those were terrorists from Afghanistan going door to door to kill the occupants, or simply entered the store to gun down whoever was in there - who's motive is simply 'Death to America' - who start their operation knowing full well they will die, and embrace it...

Imagine busy shopping malls, professional sports games, hospitals, police stations, schools of all levels, residential neighborhoods, business parks, and critical infrastructure - all being targeted around the same time

And imagine this happening in 5 or 6 locations in a city simultaneously. Across 5 or 6 cities simultaneously, or more...

And who's to say the above scenario takes place in just one day? Maybe the exact same scenario plays out again, a few days later when everybody thinks it's over? Or a few weeks? Maybe a few months, when people start to let their guard down?


...


Like I said, I'm not trying to fear monger.

Maybe nothing happens, and I am 100% wrong (I hope I'm wrong, like I seriously hope I'm super duper wrong)

But when we see Venezuelan gangs starting to openly move into the same territory claimed by Chicago's street gangs, take over entire apartment blocks in Colorado by going door to door with guns, and violently robbing stores in broad daylight (and very little being done about it from local law enforcement) I just have a feeling this is the very early stages of it...

 

[RangerRay]

Eh, not quite…

Examining ‘grossly exaggerated’ claims about Venezuelan gang activity in a Colorado city

Authorities reject claims city has been ‘taken over’ by an international gang but police say gang is active in area

www.theglobeandmail.com

The initial source of claims that Tren de Aragua had taken over an Aurora apartment complex appears to be the complex’s owner, CBZ Management. Local media has reported on long-standing building code violations and attempts by the city to hold the management company responsible for years of neglect.


Aurora police have said CBZ Management was attempting to “fabricate alternative narratives” about gangs at their property. But police have also acknowledged that “components” of the gang “are operating in Aurora.”

Mayor, Council Member Address Gang Concerns

Mayor Mike Coffman and Council Member Danielle Jurinsky provide a statement about the widely reported presence of Tren de Aragua in the region

www.auroragov.org

 

[Cloud Cover]

Really long report and analysis. Basically it’s this:

Marching Toward Violence: The Domestic Anti-Israeli Protest Movement

Over 150 groups involved in the disruptive anti-Israel protests on college campuses and elsewhere in the United States are “pro-terrorism.” The vast majority support Hamas and/or the October 7 terrorist attacks. The movement contains militant elements pushing it toward a wider, more severe...

capitalresearch.org

“Over 150 groups involved in the disruptive anti-Israel protests on college campuses and elsewhere in the United States are “pro-terrorism.” The vast majority support Hamas and/or the October 7 terrorist attacks. The movement contains militant elements pushing it toward a wider, more severe campaign focused on property destruction and violence properly described as domestic terrorism.

…

Its long-term goals are revolutionary. It demands the “dismantlement” of America’s “colonialist,” “imperialist,” or “capitalist” system, often calling for the U.S. to be abolished as a country.

These revolutionary goals are held by the two different factions of anti-Israel extremist groups. The first faction combines Islamists, communists/Marxists, and anarchists. The second faction consists of groups with white supremacist/nationalist ideologies. They share Jew-hatred, anti-Americanism, and the goal of sparking a revolutionary uprising.

This study analyzes the movement and its over 150 pro-terrorist groups and draws 12 conclusions about its supporters, means, and objectives and identifies least 10 options for legislators, law enforcement, and concerned citizens to take action against the movement.”

Link to full report: https://capitalresearch.org/app/uploads/Marching-Toward-Violence.pdf

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I certainly appreciate the issue. It's a two part problem for Canada. Part 1 is that Canada needs immigrants to continue to maintain its population and grow its economy and Part 2 is that the mass of immigrants to the country come from "non traditional" immigrant sources and who are bringing a diversity of culture to the country. IMHO, the primary way to prevent the type of situation that @Jarnhamar puts forward (and it concerns me too) is primarily through a strong constitutional mandate of secularism and prohibition against religious-based legislation/regulation. Secondly, there needs to be a better control on balancing the influx of immigrants so that not too large a group of one religious or cultural group becomes dominant.

I think we already have a wide swing in politics when you see some of the LPC policies many of which go too far but in their minds do not go far enough yet.


I spent eight years as an active bencher for the Law Society of Manitoba and think that I have a pretty good handle on how professional discipline works. IMHO, his governing body is nuts. I like Peterson. He's definitely a burr under the skin of many folks, but he asks the right questions. I disagree with some things he puts forward but find myself agreeing with many others. What's going on, IMHO, seems to be a witch hunt being driven by some very thin skinned folks. I'm not surprised the courts didn't intervene. The law is very strongly written giving administrative bodies wide discretion in how they handle their business.

OTOH, I've been following some of the changes in the various provinces human rights legislation as well as the professional codes for Manitoba and Ontario and am somewhat concerned that they too are tightening up things which IMHO are becoming prohibitive of folks who take unpopular positions. The problem with all of these things is that like any group, these professions consist of two groups of people. The first group is the mass of them - the average Joe's who just want to get on with their jobs and generally do not involve themselves in governance. The second group is the dangerous one. That's that small group of radicals that wants to change the world (in one direction or the other) and are more than happy to get involved and vocally stand for election for positions on these governing bodies. From time to time there are enough of them to cause radical change. It's been that way for a long time and most of the changes of the past have been acceptable but we've entered an age where the boundaries are being pushed more and more to favour certain niche special interest groups.

Here's the answer. Get involved at governance at all levels and take control. And, I say again, strong constitutional safeguards for secularism now.

Sounds like your typical Strata council......

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Eh, not quite…

Examining ‘grossly exaggerated’ claims about Venezuelan gang activity in a Colorado city

Authorities reject claims city has been ‘taken over’ by an international gang but police say gang is active in area

www.theglobeandmail.com

Mayor, Council Member Address Gang Concerns

Mayor Mike Coffman and Council Member Danielle Jurinsky provide a statement about the widely reported presence of Tren de Aragua in the region

www.auroragov.org

Gangs taking over residential buildings is nothing new sadly, it goes back a long way.

 

[CBH99]

Eh, not quite…

Examining ‘grossly exaggerated’ claims about Venezuelan gang activity in a Colorado city

Authorities reject claims city has been ‘taken over’ by an international gang but police say gang is active in area

www.theglobeandmail.com

Mayor, Council Member Address Gang Concerns

Mayor Mike Coffman and Council Member Danielle Jurinsky provide a statement about the widely reported presence of Tren de Aragua in the region

www.auroragov.org

I guess this will be a case of what information source one finds more credible.

Why would a real estate management company 'stage' a video of South American fighting aged males going door to door with guns in one of their apartment complexes tho?

Is covering up shoddy maintenance of an apartment complex with a staged armed gang takeover a really savvy business move?
"Sorry we haven't fixed that broken appliance of yours, but we haven't been able to get to you due to the armed checkpoints between our on site office and your unit...sorry for any inconvenience!"

The people who lived there and have since decided to move out seemed to be pretty convinced that the street gang presence was real...


...


As for the city's position on the matter (2nd link, I couldn't read the first due to pay wall) that's exactly the kind of thing I would expect a city representative to say.

It's the classic tactic of being dismissive about what another party has said by misrepresenting what they actually said.

He says the gang hasn't taken over the city, despite social media posts stating otherwise. And it's easy to see that the gang indeed has not taken over the city, which loops back to lend credibility to that statement...

But I HAVEN'T seen a single social media post stating the gang HAD taken over the city. Not one...

What I HAVE seen was the same as what we all saw. A group of young men, all armed with rifles, kicking in the doors of various apartments in an apartment complex as they staged a takeover of that complex.


So it's easy to be dismissive of 'social media posts' that never actually existed to reinforce the narrative one wants to project, and it's easy to be tricked into believing the official narrative when they dismiss some crackpot theory that's easy to prove isn't true (except the crackpot theory they are dismissing is intentionally being misrepresented)


...


These morons did so because they thought it would be a good business decision and a source of funding...

But what if their motive hadn't been to fund their gang activities, which requires 'their' tenants to be alive and working, and paying rent? What if they were jihadists, and their motive was just to eliminate a bunch of non-believers?

With the sheer volume of Venezuelan gang members AND asylum seekers arriving from places like Afghanistan, I don't think we can rule out the latter as being quite possible (if not probable...)

 

[OldSolduer]

WRT immigrants - Most I would say are just seeking shelter from a storm , but there could be the possibility of a few sleepers or leakers. These are ones you might not suspect - the single mother with two kids, the older couple. Its not always Fight age Males.

 

[RangerRay]

The fact that this was a Republican mayor repudiating these rumours during an election where everyone is turning the rhetoric to 11 leads me to believe him rather than stuff floating around the MAGAsphere mediaverse. If there was any validity to this stuff, he would be howling about it from the rooftops to help his side. Otherwise this sounds like stuff that happens in the dodgier parts of Winnipeg. Not acceptable and should be shut down by police PDQ, but not some nefarious plot either.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We shouldn't be bringing in anyone who hasn't got something substantial to offer Canada. Something like a professional licence. Doctors, nurses and tradesmen, etc. If you still don't speak an official language after three years, out you go. If you are not gainfully employed after three years, out you go. You have to have an up to date needle book to gain entry longer than six months. You need to come here with an already purchased return ticket back to where you left. You have to arrive here solvent enough to afford normal living expenses. No social benefits until you gain landed immigrant or citizenship status. Enough of bringing in uneducated, financially challenged families with three wives, ten kids and six inlaws or grandparents to live off of social services, just because they live in shitholes. If you have nothing to offer Canada, we have nothing to offer you.

 

[lenaitch]

We shouldn't be bringing in anyone who hasn't got something substantial to offer Canada. Something like a professional licence. Doctors, nurses and tradesmen, etc. If you still don't speak an official language after three years, out you go. If you are not gainfully employed after three years, out you go. You have to have an up to date needle book to gain entry longer than six months. You need to come here with an already purchased return ticket back to where you left. You have to arrive here solvent enough to afford normal living expenses. No social benefits until you gain landed immigrant or citizenship status. Enough of bringing in uneducated, financially challenged families with three wives, ten kids and six inlaws or grandparents to live off of social services, just because they live in shitholes. If you have nothing to offer Canada, we have nothing to offer you.

One problem with regulated professions, such as medicine, is the regulatory bodies offer limited capacity and a ton of roadblocks for foreign trained professionals to become certified. As far as I'm concerned it's as much about protecting turf and alma maters as it is about protecting the public. Also, speaking a language at the social or conversational level can be different than specialized professional fluency.

Can you even buy a return ticket that is open-ended for years in the future?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

One problem with regulated professions, such as medicine, is the regulatory bodies offer limited capacity and a ton of roadblocks for foreign trained professionals to become certified. As far as I'm concerned it's as much about protecting turf and alma maters as it is about protecting the public. Also, speaking a language at the social or conversational level can be different than specialized professional fluency.

Can you even buy a return ticket that is open-ended for years in the future?

It's one of Poliviere's platform points. To come up with a blue seal process for professionals.

 

[CBH99]

We shouldn't be bringing in anyone who hasn't got something substantial to offer Canada. Something like a professional licence. Doctors, nurses and tradesmen, etc. If you still don't speak an official language after three years, out you go. If you are not gainfully employed after three years, out you go. You have to have an up to date needle book to gain entry longer than six months. You need to come here with an already purchased return ticket back to where you left. You have to arrive here solvent enough to afford normal living expenses. No social benefits until you gain landed immigrant or citizenship status. Enough of bringing in uneducated, financially challenged families with three wives, ten kids and six inlaws or grandparents to live off of social services, just because they live in shitholes. If you have nothing to offer Canada, we have nothing to offer you.

For the most part, I agree with you. I'd even suggest that people should not be granted any social benefits until they are granted Permanent Residency status, or citizenship.

For those claiming legitimate refugee status, who are clearly fleeing a war or violence with their immediate family in tow - I don't mind helping them out while they are here, or helping them get established if here will be their new home.

I wouldn't give them the current $5100 a month a refugee in Canada can apply for/claim (if everything they can apply for is applied for/granted) - but I don't mind helping out people who ended up here without much intention, who are legitimately fleeing violence.

(Of all the money we waste in this country as a result of Trudeau & Freeland literally spending us into oblivion, I'd rather some of that money go to some recently arrived Ukranians than another 'buddy of the Liberals' receiving a few million hers & there with literally nothing to show for it...)

 

[lenaitch]

It's one of Poliviere's platform points. To come up with a blue seal process for professionals.

And I do wish him luck with that, given that they are all provincial jurisdiction, and Quebec will never allow any kind of accreditation, exam or test in other than French.

 

[Halifax Tar]

For the most part, I agree with you. I'd even suggest that people should not be granted any social benefits until they are granted Permanent Residency status, or citizenship.

I'd say we need a contribution threshold. For immigrants and born Canadians. Can't use social benefits until you have contributed for XX years. For born Canadians you can ride your parents contributions until you're 18 with a diminishing value until it's disappears at say 25.

The obvious exceptions being those Canadians born with physical or mental limitations that keep them from working.

 

[mariomike]

lenaitch:

One problem with regulated professions, such as medicine, is the regulatory bodies offer limited capacity and a ton of roadblocks for foreign trained professionals to become certified. As far as I'm concerned it's as much about protecting turf and alma maters as it is about protecting the public. Also, speaking a language at the social or conversational level can be different than specialized professional fluency.

And I do wish him luck with that, given that they are all provincial jurisdiction, and Quebec will never allow any kind of accreditation, exam or test in other than French.

Speaking only of the profession I was a member of,

Reciprocity from another province to Ontario is pretty daunting. As there is no shortage of candidates from Ontario colleges.

From another country. it may be theoretically possible - now. But, I never heard of it.

In the past, my employer did not even hire candidates from out of town.

 

[Remius]

We shouldn't be bringing in anyone who hasn't got something substantial to offer Canada. Something like a professional licence. Doctors, nurses and tradesmen, etc.

Pretty sure most of our immigration has this as a condition. Obviously family and refugees immigration is not included in that.

If you still don't speak an official language after three years, out you go.

Not sure how that could be legally enforced.

If you are not gainfully employed after three years, out you go.

What about children or family members of certain ages? I’d be curious to see what the actual rate of employable immigrants is in relation to their gainful employment status is.

You have to have an up to date needle book to gain entry longer than six months.

There are medical requirements already in place. I’m pretty sure vaccinations are not mandatory but that assessments are made on vaccine statuses. But, in Canada despite what some people might think, you aren’t forced to take vaccines. The consequences of that though is on them.

You need to come here with an already purchased return ticket back to where you left.

Interesting to see how that could be accomplished…

You have to arrive here solvent enough to afford normal living expenses.

That is fair. It’s why most immigrants do get sponsored by non government funds. It’s a pretty good system to ensure they have the means to support themselves.

No social benefits until you gain landed immigrant or citizenship status.

Most get permanent residency when the arrive and land. And is the requirement to access those things.

Enough of bringing in uneducated, financially challenged families with three wives, ten kids and six inlaws or grandparents to live off of social services, just because they live in shitholes. If you have nothing to offer Canada, we have nothing to offer you.

Are you speaking of refugees only? And what are the actual statistics on what you just claimed? Is that really the norm?

 

[Remius]

I'd say we need a contribution threshold. For immigrants and born Canadians. Can't use social benefits until you have contributed for XX years. For born Canadians you can ride your parents contributions until you're 18 with a diminishing value until it's disappears at say 25.

So at 25 they are off the parents and have to start contributing to access social benefits. What would be the number of years of contributions? So they would have to contribute but also would have to pay for services they already contribute to until a certain time in? No one would ever get elected under that.

The obvious exceptions being those Canadians born with physical or mental limitations that keep them from working.

 

[brihard]

I'd say we need a contribution threshold. For immigrants and born Canadians. Can't use social benefits until you have contributed for XX years. For born Canadians you can ride your parents contributions until you're 18 with a diminishing value until it's disappears at say 25.

The obvious exceptions being those Canadians born with physical or mental limitations that keep them from working.

Which social benefits, specifically, are you talking about? This is very vague to the point of being nearly meaningless.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So at 25 they are off the parents and have to start contributing to access social benefits. What would be the number of years of contributions? So they would have to contribute but also would have to pay for services they already contribute to until a certain time in? No one would ever get elected under that.

If they are working and contributing they get continued access.

Which social benefits, specifically, are you talking about? This is very vague to the point of being nearly meaningless.

Any and all from Health Care to Public Housing; and all points I'm between. You get nothing from the tax payer until you've met the threshold of contribution.