Issued Tac Vest

[Kal]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/20031.0.html

link for the pics of the vest. 

 

[Andyboy]

A few points on the Patrol Vest if I may.

>I would be interested to know where exactly your officer got his patrol vest, if he in fact has one.

>All the exterior pouches have built in silencers for the hook and loop (velcro) closures.

>With time and use the Side Release buckles make less and less noise. Most users find a way to use them without making much noise, it is a concern though and other than investing in a new buckle design they are an appropriate design decision.

>I concur on the access issues for the utility pouches.  They can tend to gravitate towards the rear, espescially for the more slender users. For the majority of users however the vest can be adjusted to allow them to be in a position for easy access. Failing that undoing the front of the vest and manually moving the sdies around to the front to access them seems to work ok. This is gnerally how I access items at the side or back of my webbing as well.

>The vest requires no tweaking for use by grenadiers, riflemen or LMG gunners. They are all accomodated in the production item. This particular vest however was not designed for regular infantry operations and is but one tool in the tool box.

Cheers.

 

[Kal]

>The vest requires no tweaking for use by grenadiers, riflemen or LMG gunners. They are all accomodated in the production item. This particular vest however was not designed for regular infantry operations and is but one tool in the tool box.
Cheers.

  No tweaking for grenadiers?  Does the vest come with some inserts for 40mm rounds or would they just carry them loose in a utility pouch?  I didn't see many pouches for dd's or frags either.  Sure they could be thrown loose in the pouches, but, I've never been a fan of carry all my kit together like that, especially ordnance.  Maybe that's what you meant by regular infantry operations?  Care to clarify?

 

[Bomber]

I have attached my two canteen pouches on the sides of the vest, where your kidneys are, the two other pouches fit on the Velcro patch.  I just did this, and everything seems secure and tight.  Maybe someone else that is looking for a little extra room might want to do this.  If you put these on, you now have "two extra places to put your rain gear" or whatever it is everyone carries with them.  I have yet to fill it and put on a rucksack or anything, but I will do it tomorrow at work and update y'all.  If you try this, remember to face the little pouches on the canteen carrier to the rear or else they will be to in accessible to use jammed against the utility pouches.  Only thing left for this to work well, is a stop at fabric land to grab a 6 inch by 6 inch square of Velcro to eliminate rubbing/sound.

 

[Andyboy]

By regular infantry I meant it isn't meant for a lot of prone work i.e. sect/pl atks. This is meant more for patrolling, hence the name.

The vest as issued was designed to carry every item you mentioned, some more specifically than others. It is a tough design decision. Pouches that are too specific end up empty for most of their life cycle while pouches that are not specific enough get cluttered. Think single c-7 pouch on the TV versus the buttpack. Using a few different techniques the designer managed to strike a decent compromise between the two. (IMHO  ;D) Keep in mind that some of the equipment it was intended to carry may not be the same as what you carry. DDs for example.

Have you handled the vest? Most of the design is in the details and details can be hard to discern from photos.

 

[Kal]

Have you handled the vest? Most of the design is in the details and details can be hard to discern from photos.

  Andyboy, you're way too funny, seeing as maybe one of those vests are civvy side and a couple managed to get off the hill.  I should join cadets, I would have a better chance of seeing it there, than in the rest of the CF by the sounds of it. 

  Good points though, it is a patrol vest, but with the current trend of more CQB/urban training, it may not be too bad of an option.  As for prone work, look at the webbing, not matter how much gun tape was on it, it still fell to pieces once a few section attacks were carried out.  Also magazine placement is basically the same compared between the vest and webbing, so the pouches will still be in the dirt while prone. 

It's still funny to hear the difference in opinion for ammo/ordnance allotment for troops.  While, in the regiment I had a sgt. say you wont need to carry more than 5 mags, while another Mcpl say, you need at least twice that many for urban ops, then to go on course and my section get issued 11 mags apiece.

 

[NATO Boy]

While, in the regiment I had a sgt. say you wont need to carry more than 5 mags, while another Mcpl say, you need at least twice that many for urban ops, then to go on course and my section get issued 11 mags apiece.

;D LMAO  On my SQ 2 some odd years ago, we only got issued "4" mags per rifleman!  Plenty of room for "chocy bars" and "platoon pyro..."

 

[Canadian Sig]

you think thats funny. when we arrived in Kabul for roto 0 we were only issued 5 mags each. (we did b*tch and got topped-up to 250 rounds but still 5 mags)

 

[Kal]

;D LMAO On my SQ 2 some odd years ago, we only got issued "4" mags per rifleman! Plenty of room for "chocy bars" and "platoon pyro..."

Nato Boy - Did you do all your training with your regiment, or did they ship you off somewhere?  My BMQ and SQ were held at my unit and for our BMQ FTX we got issued a whole 60 rounds of blanks a piece.. :-\  SQ was a little different, but because of most of the training being done in town, not a lot of rounds were expended.  We did a BMQ at the regiment, QL3 in shilo and an SQ in town the following spring.  shilo was by far the best training though, and why so many mags were issused was probably because of the Cowboy PPCLI instructors....

 

[NATO Boy]

Did you do all your training with your regiment, or did they ship you off somewhere?

BMQ - Regiment - 5 mags and EIS (no blanks or pyro at all)

SQ and DP1 INF(a.k.a BIQ)  - LFCA TC Meaford - 4 mags + EIS with Combat Load (plus PL pyro, comms, or other essentials as required)

The sad part was, even though Riflemen only carried 4 mags, we were constantly getting in firefights on the FTXes (thus necessitating the need of more mags)  and found ourselves bombing up constantly in fear of having no mags for the next attack. I hope I didn't come off as being rude; I was only laughing at the fact that there are so many different Mag alottments for Courses and Ops even. As for what we had to carry, it constantly varied from 210 rds (4 mags + 3 boxes) to 300 rds (4 mags + 6 boxes) as well as pyro (riflemen carried 2 T-Flashes, 1 smoke) and Sect and PL ammo. This was back when the Webbing was still used a lot thus we had a buttpack (held most of the spare ammo) and could request the Admin NCO to get spare pouches for ammo or water as needed from the CQ.

 

[Kal]

I hope I didn't come off as being rude; I was only laughing at the fact that there are so many different Mag alottments for Courses and Ops even.

Not offended by the least.  I can somewhat understand mag and ammo allotment being lower than ops because, if I can fight with 5 mags, then I shouldn't have a prob with 8 mags.  However, that is still somewhat unrealistic in that you never know what to really expect in combat.  I find it even more funny, no wait, scratch that, I find it sadder that some people still think 5 mags enough to get the job done... ???

 

[NATO Boy]

some people still think 5 mags enough to get the job done... ???

They'd be correct...if it weren't for the whole "having to win the firefight" stuff we do during any knid of assault... :threat:

 

[KevinB]

you think thats funny. when we arrived in Kabul for roto 0 we were only issued 5 mags each. (we did b*tch and got topped-up to 250 rounds but still 5 mags)

Unfortunately it is becasue you likely fell under the NSE - and they figured - screw him he's a sig he does not need ammo.

The bayonets had more mags - maybe why we hated the TV  ;D

 

[Devo]

well i personally think the small pack system is garbage. the thing weighs 10 lbs empty, and for light infantry, we don't need our things to be heavy, when empty. as for that whole rain coat business, toss the rain coat and rain pants out of your kit, don't be cheap and go buy a complete stealth suit, u won't regret it one bit. and i think its only 250 complete now, probably less. and as for the whole light dicipline thing with the rain coat, use your poncho, lighter than a ground sheet, and smaller... does the same job. And as for your tac vest, if ur worried about not carrying enough mags or anything like that, go buy your own LBV. maybe its just 3vp but we can pretty much wear what we want, as long is its black/green/camo

sorry just my two cents

 

[NATO Boy]

if ur worried about not carrying enough mags or anything like that, go buy your own LBV. maybe its just 3vp but we can pretty much wear what we want, as long is its black/green/camo

I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but...

What about units that don't allow you to buy LBVs? What about reservists that have to go overseas? I know, some might say "Meh, you're reservists, it's not like you'll be in harm's way like the Regs" or "quit yer b#tchin' ya spoiled weekend warrior" and it would be justified. But the question remains: "How are we gonna be able to carry the same combat load (or close) if the issued vest (which is cramped for space) is our only option?" Perhaps it's only unit-level and (with luck) you'll be deployed with a more lenient (sp?) group.

Is there anyone who has used the issued vest on tour with the same combat load as KevinB (or similar?) It'd be interesting to hear what remedies you made to use the issued vest but still carry everything (other than in a daypack.)

 

[mudgunner49]

Having compared "hands-on", the TV with my SOTech Hellcat Mk1, SOTech Rifleman's rig and a custom chest rig from Jon Nelson @ Recce Gear, I can tell you unequivocally that you cannot carry the same load that KevinB has laid out just with the TV.  As soon as I get my digital camera up and running I will post a review of these load-carriage systems (less the RCH which I no longer have) for all to see.  I will reiterate however that the TV is at least 2, and possibly 4, generations behind the stuff currently on the market.  We have saddled our troops with a substandard piece of s*** and continue to punish those who show some initiative by attempting to field a better system at their own expense.


Blake

 

[KevinB]

Blake - cool can't wait for the pics.



NATOboy -  Find a gear producer that makes CADPAT and CADPAT AR gear - It would be VERY awkward for your chain to try to tell you to ditch a piece of kit that works and fits in well to the uniform - especially if you dig up a few copies of the UCR's on the TV...

 

[BillP]

Piper,
As much as I agree with you on mod'ing the existing mag pouches into doubles, there are several reasons why it won't work:
1) You would be setting yourself up to facing serious charges!!!
2) A buddy picked up a TV on Ebay awhile back, you know one of those that fell off the back of a truck : and modified it to carry 8 mags! Didn't pan out at all, the TV's mesh body was too flimsy to support the additional weight of the 4 extra mags! The whole thing fully loaded out and cinched up, just sagged too far forward, and bounced around alot during rapid movement! Wound up reselling back on Ebay, as a modified CF TV ;D
A co. in Edmonton, Dropzonetactical has made a modular TV, nearly identical to the issue item. Main body is covered in MULES/PALS webbing, whereby modular pouches can be secured anywhere!

 

[NATO Boy]

Find a gear producer that makes CADPAT and CADPAT AR gear

Tiger Tactical's Operation Vest (despite mixed reviews) seems like a great alternative...TT even used to have an interesting CADPAT repro of the British Battle Vest that looked really well built (although most of the pockets were around the waist like Webbing, no biggie as long as you figure out a better way to go prone with it) and ideal for a rifleman.

 

[KevinB]

Several of us had Tiger gear in Afghan - the only problems we noted with the Brit type vest is it was very bulky (whi I went with an intergrated system)

I was out at Tigers place and we came up with a few ideas to a hybrid RAV system, and a Chest rig in MOLLE.