Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[childs56]

The solution is to pay more, and treat people better... Just because things are better than they had been does not mean they are great.

There is more to working conditions than a warm dry place, and some internet.

Why go off into the wilderness/sea to make money if the money you make still won't buy you a house and a vacation down south every year? Sure the pay is better than Walmart, but the sacrifices you make for it in comparison for what you make levels things out pretty quickly.

You nailed the main issue. People are not willing to "sacrifice" People want big money, big benefits for entry level performance/ positions with little to any sacrifice.
One has to make sacrifices if they want to buy that house, buy that boat and have the vacations in warm places in the winter.

I tell the people where I work. If you want the money to go buy a house, buy a new truck. Go work the Oilfield for a few years. Save up the money, then come back to our current job. (which should be well compensated, but not so)

 

[Furniture]

You nailed the main issue. People are not willing to "sacrifice" People want big money, big benefits for entry level performance/ positions with little to any sacrifice.
One has to make sacrifices if they want to buy that house, buy that boat and have the vacations in warm places in the winter.

I tell the people where I work. If you want the money to go buy a house, buy a new truck. Go work the Oilfield for a few years. Save up the money, then come back to our current job. (which should be well compensated, but not so)

People are willing to sacrifice, if the reward is clear and they deem it worthwhile.

What people aren't willing to do is pay to go to a college to learn a skill that might get them in a high "sacrifice" job, that may some day pay off big time.

We are living with the consequences of industries having turned away people for 20+ years. We lost an entire generation of workers because boomers stayed working, and companies decided that they could treat new workers as disposable. Turns out that if you do that for a couple of decades, you get a reputation as a bad place to work.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I think you are beyond the writ of what the RCN/CAF or any western Armed Forces can offer. You could build apartments and PMQ's and tie rent there to pay. But even that will take 10 years to show an effect, that would be in the possible writ of the CAF.

 

[Furniture]

I think you are beyond the writ of what the RCN/CAF or any western Armed Forces can offer. You could build apartments and PMQ's and tie rent there to pay. But even that will take 10 years to show an effect, that would be in the possible writ of the CAF.

That is a possible solution not just for the CAF, but also for the marine industry in general. That industry refuses to consider it has more to do with the availability of cheap foreign labour than it does with feasibility.

People are fairly simple. They want a "nice" place to live, the ability to spend some money on entertainment/toys, and they want time to enjoy their entertainment/toys. The only reason the CAF can't sort it out is the voting public doesn't care about the CAF or it's problems.

 

[Cloud Cover]

The only reason the CAF can't sort it out is the voting public doesn't care about the CAF or its problems.

The government of Canada funds a dysfunctional and broken DND currently to approximately 700$ per capita.
A family of 4 in BC with no government employee benefits pays approximately 1200$/per capita for extended care benefits. One is expensive and useful to the family, the other is expensive and without a doubt useless to that family.

Do you see why the public doesn’t care about the CAF.

 

[Furniture]

The government of Canada funds a dysfunctional and broken DND currently to approximately 700$ per capita.
A family of 4 in BC with no government employee benefits pays approximately 1200$/per capita for extended care benefits. One is expensive and useful to the family, the other is expensive and without a doubt useless to that family.

Do you see why the public doesn’t care about the CAF.

Except, the CAF is a big part of the reason the family in BC get as much as they do out of the system.

Canada is a trading nation, which means it relies on the good will of others, as well as safe and secure trade routes. The CAF helps ensure both of those things... A responsible government would make that clear to Canadians, but we don't have responsible governments, so Canadians are told the CAF is a waste of money.

 

[Furniture]

There is a huge effort to do just that, with various levels of the sector and government involvement, and it mainly comes down to the reason why other sectors of the economy are suffering too: not enough young people ...

Canada tries to combat aging marine shipping workforce with online 'ocean school'​

Transport Canada says 43% of marine workforce set to retire over next 10 years​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/canada-aging-marine-shipping-workforce-1.7154806#:~:text=According%20to%20Transport%20Canada%20in,over%20that%20same%20time%20period.

From the article:

After a "few months of training," Fields said people can go directly into entry-level positions that pay around $60,000 per year and are responsible for duties such as maintaining and docking the vessel, and loading cargo.

So, after paying for training, you can maybe get a Cpl equivalent job that will take you away from home half of the year, every year, for the rest of your working life... Lets be honest, $60K sounds good to those of us who grew up in a world where houses cost $100-300K... In a world of $600K+ houses near the ports we need people, $60K doesn't sound appealing.

 

[dapaterson]

So, after paying for training, you can maybe get a Cpl equivalent job that will take you away from home half of the year, every year, for the rest of your working life... Lets be honest, $60K sounds good to those of us who grew up in a world where houses cost $100-300K... In a world of $600K+ houses near the ports we need people, $60K doesn't sound appealing.

A Cpl starts at $72K...

 

[Furniture]

A Cpl starts at $72K...

Yeah... I'm old. That was my Sgt IPC 4 pay back in 2017...

 

[Underway]

A Cpl starts at $72K...

Yep and a lot of the seagoing trades are Spec 1 so an S1 (Sailor 1st Class = Cpl) is ~$80'000. That of course doesn't include Sea Pay ($267 per month minimum ~3400/year) , or your Canadian forces housing differential which tops you up to the tune of $800 per month in Victoria ($9600) or Halifax $450 per month ($5400).

All together a S1 with Spec 1 earns ~$92'800 if they are posted to ship in Victoria. And if you go on deployment well, tax free is the big money.

Hmm I think I need to redo my sales pitch to teenagers.

 

[Furniture]

Yep and a lot of the seagoing trades are Spec 1 so an S1 (Sailor 1st Class = Cpl) is ~$80'000. That of course doesn't include Sea Pay ($267 per month minimum ~3400/year) , or your Canadian forces housing differential which tops you up to the tune of $800 per month in Victoria ($9600) or Halifax $450 per month ($5400).

All together a S1 with Spec 1 earns ~$92'800 if they are posted to ship in Victoria. And if you go on deployment well, tax free is the big money.

Hmm I think I need to redo my sales pitch to teenagers.

Your SDA is off, it starts at $327/month, and by the time you're a S1 you're likely not too far off $465/month.

 

[daftandbarmy]

A Cpl starts at $72K...

Approx. Grid Level 22 in the BC Public Service...

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/careers-myhr/all-employees/pay-benefits/salaries/salarylookuptool/grids

 

[Underway]

Your SDA is off, it starts at $327/month, and by the time you're a S1 you're likely not too far off $465/month.

Probably grabbed an out of date version when I was online. The one I was looking at was last finalized in 2021.

Edit: Was for some reason looking at the Paratroop allowance. So yah, you are correct its higher.

 

[dimsum]

Yep and a lot of the seagoing trades are Spec 1 so an S1 (Sailor 1st Class = Cpl) is ~$80'000. That of course doesn't include Sea Pay ($267 per month minimum ~3400/year) , or your Canadian forces housing differential which tops you up to the tune of $800 per month in Victoria ($9600) or Halifax $450 per month ($5400).

All together a S1 with Spec 1 earns ~$92'800 if they are posted to ship in Victoria. And if you go on deployment well, tax free is the big money.

Hmm I think I need to redo my sales pitch to teenagers.

Wow.

But, unlike many (most?) civilians, the moving around for most people means that it’s also a 1-income family.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Wow.

But, unlike many (most?) civilians, the moving around for most people means that it’s also a 1-income family.

I thought that the average sailor was supporting at least two families?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yep and a lot of the seagoing trades are Spec 1 so an S1 (Sailor 1st Class = Cpl) is ~$80'000. That of course doesn't include Sea Pay ($267 per month minimum ~3400/year) , or your Canadian forces housing differential which tops you up to the tune of $800 per month in Victoria ($9600) or Halifax $450 per month ($5400).

All together a S1 with Spec 1 earns ~$92'800 if they are posted to ship in Victoria. And if you go on deployment well, tax free is the big money.

Hmm I think I need to redo my sales pitch to teenagers.

I'm a CPO2, and I am in the top three for FSPs on the ship. And this deployment has shown me the tax free, FSP ect ect are not worth it.

I actually had to sit with my Snr HRA and go over my pay as I was shocked. To quote him "It's not worth it, is it Chief ?", no it's not.

 

[Furniture]

I'm a CPO2, and I am in the top three for FSPs on the ship. And this deployment has shown me the tax free, FSP ect ect are not worth it.

I actually had to sit with my Snr HRA and go over my pay as I was shocked. To quote him "It's not worth it, is it Chief ?", no it's not.

As someone at the second level of SDA, but with lots of FSP/Hardship points, it would totally be worth it for me.

It's a weird situation to be in though, because ma lot of sailors with lots of experience will end up not much farther ahead to spend a lot of time away.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It's a weird situation to be in though, because ma lot of sailors with lots of experience will end up not much farther ahead to spend a lot of time away.

That's exactly it.

My time and experience is valuable, and I believe it should be compensated accordingly. This deployment it has not been compensated accordingly, IMHO.