Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Good2Golf]

especially in an organization where ever 2-3 years those responsible turn over

…other than the ADM, who reports directly to the DM for the provision of Departmental IM/IT…

…but other than that…

 

[dapaterson]

…other than the ADM, who reports directly to the DM for the provision of Departmental IM/IT…

…but other than that…

CAF ADM equivalents rotate on that cycle. And it shows.

 

[GK .Dundas]

As I recall most ADMs rotate not just DND's .
And it didn't have the desired effect of "broadening their Governmental experience". Which as I understand it was the original intent of the process.

 

[SupersonicMax]

CAF ADM equivalents rotate on that cycle. And it shows.

The CAF does’t have ADMs.

 

[Underway]

First thing anyone can do in recruiting is stop hiring "experts" with degrees and masters in HR to run numbers to hire the best qualified applicant.
Most if not all the metrics they bring to the table have been spoken about and known since time immoral. But they put a spin on them all and try to tweak them to fit their paper they wrote in school to stand out.
The amount of solicitations I receive weekly if not daily from HR recruiters is ridiculous, asking if I am looking for work or if I know anyone looking for work. They try their speech's and verbo judo on me trying to entice me to hire on with the company/firm industry they are hiring for.
It is a sad state of affairs, most of these HR people are trying to reinvent the wheel every couple of years to make their place in their firm. Instead of just focusing on basics of hiring applicants. They are trying to hire the best fit statistically for the company , does not work well short, medium or long term for anyone.
The basics include a job description, short medium and long term outlook for availability of work, Pay and benefit scales. Be honest about the job and its good and bad. People don't want to walk into a company on day one and find out the hours of work they were promised are way different, overtime is in effect mandatory. Or you have to take holidays at such and such a time.

As for Military recruiting, get CFRCs out of the office and have them supporting the various units recruiting programs. (yes bring those back), Have members visit elementary schools, high schools and secondary institutions. You don't need a specific recruiting event, you can find out a certain class is talking about Canada's contributions to Peace and security around the world and set up in the school. Or use the various Time such as Peacekeeper Day to visit schools and talk about our contributions to the UN, NATO and other partnerships we have around the world. Let people know we have Men and Women in Uniform representing us around the world. Explain the school benefits plans we have.

Show up with a cool armored vehicle or Howitzer. That usually brings a nice crowd of interested people.
Stop expecting people to come to you and then wait a year or more to not only move forward with the next step but be contacted about their file.
Maybe set up general recruiting days, where a person can show up, fill out the forms, be seen by a Dr and then get in cue.

You are talk like we don't do those things. Which we do if in modified form. Recruiters go to schools all the time and guidance counsellors are generally very receptive.

Also you're trying to recruit yourself with all these suggestions, which is a classic error. You need to try and recruit yourself when you were 16-18. Young people don't give a crap about pension and benifits. They don't understand it and really only care about the base paycheque (which they also don't know if that is big, small good or bad yet).

However, the late 20 somethings do and they are not found in schools. Average age of recruits now is 25-27. They have been around the block once or twice and want a stable career and are still young enough to make the change. To them that pitch works.

 

[dapaterson]

The CAF does’t have ADMs.

The Chief of the Air Staff is an ADM equivalent, providing advice in that domain. They are double hatted as Commander, RCAF.

Arguably the ADM roles of CAF 3* are of greater strategic importance than their command roles - the CAF would be hard pressed to operationally employ forces that warrant a 2* commander, let alone a 3* or 4*.

 

[Quirky]

ou are talk like we don't do those things. Which we do if in modified form. Recruiters go to schools all the time and guidance counsellors are generally very receptive.

CAF needs to go harder with advertising online and through social media. You'll get a much larger audience online by teaming up with popular (millions of subscribers) influencers and YouTube channels. Lots of Canadian based content.

 

[SupersonicMax]

The Chief of the Air Staff is an ADM equivalent, providing advice in that domain. They are double hatted as Commander, RCAF.

Arguably the ADM roles of CAF 3* are of greater strategic importance than their command roles - the CAF would be hard pressed to operationally employ forces that warrant a 2* commander, let alone a 3* or 4*.

The CAS may be and ADM equivalent but it is not an ADM.

The fact that some in our organization think the "ADM" functions are more important than the Comd RCAF functions is sign that our "raison d’être" is not fully understood and acknowledged. We don’t exist to manage ourselves. We exist to defend Canada’s interest with the use of Force.

 

[dapaterson]

The raison d'etre of the CAF is readiness.

The CAF must manage itself and prepare itself for the future. Today's commander is stuck with decisions, actions and inactions of their predecessors framing their ability to respond. Their vital role is in ensuring the future readiness of the institution.

 

[SupersonicMax]

The raison d'etre of the CAF is readiness.

The CAF must manage itself and prepare itself for the future. Today's commander is stuck with decisions, actions and inactions of their predecessors framing their ability to respond. Their vital role is in ensuring the future readiness of the institution.

That is a Command responsibility, not a Public Service one. DND should be there to support Commanders to enable readiness. I find DND holds way too much power that should be held at the Command level (often indirectly).

 

[Edward Campbell]

IT is easy. Understanding, documenting, and updating your business processes is hard, especially in an organization where ever 2-3 years those responsible turn over, and new folks become experts based on a posting message and a couple of days of handover (if you are lucky).

Add a mix of senior individuals who have never had to lead such an effort before, but who are willing to be woo'd by industry sales folks... And you have most DND IM/IT projects.

It's one of the reason why some defence organizations, like the one I directed for many years, need to be largely civilian. BUT there's a dilemma: t operate and manage those organizations effectively requires extensive practical, military knowledge and experience AND "time in place."

We, and e.g. the and , do this by having a mix of civil and military people. The does it differently. They have (had, anyway in the 1970s, '80s & '90s, a category if civil servant called RO - Retired Officer. (There were also retired NCOs, I think, but I'm not 1005 certain.) My opposite number, for example, was classified as a 'GpCapt RO' (he could have been a ColRO, too) and he was, properly, WgCdr(R) P____ Mac____ on his door sign and business cards. His job could be filled by a properly qualified Cdr/LCol/Wg Cdr, Cape(N)/Col/GpCapt or Care/Brig/AC. the system gives them the necessary mix of job stability and military experience but they tend to be a bit older than us.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The CAF does’t have ADMs.

Mr Hellyer's 'reforms' allowed for a mix of uniformed military and civil servants in some jobs - but NOT in command of MARCOM, FMC or Air Defence Command. In some cases ADMs had civilian deputies: Assoc ADM(Mat) was, for a time, Comd MatCom. I saw it actually happen: my old mate (2RCR) LGen Bob Fischer (RCENE) was appointed ADM(Mat) in 1994-96 while he was a serving LGen.

 

[FJAG]

The raison d'etre of the CAF is readiness.

That's too narrow a focus. "Readiness" is the state of being fully prepared for something. Without a clear definition of what that something is, readiness is merely an elusion or, worse, merely a shell game played by the institution.

The CAF must manage itself and prepare itself for the future.

That I agree with as a principle but the deck is stacked against them.

Today's commander is stuck with decisions, actions and inactions of their predecessors and the resources allocated by the government in framing their ability to respond. Their vital role is in ensuring the future readiness of the institution.

FTFY.

Here's a brief comment from a former CDS (who I won't identify on this board)

We don't have the defense budget. What we have are fixed costs as a relation or as a function of how many people we have and, you know, the O&M wanting to keep the lights on. Everything else above that is a one-off decision on procurement and infrastructure to buy stuff and have a project. And so half of our budget is kind of that or half of our spend is that a discretionary amount applied to approved projects.
So if we had a budget, if they said, hey, we're going to fund you, I'll use the current NATO example, we're going to fund you a two percent of GDP every year forever, well, then you start to make decisions. You know, based on the reality of the funding that you have, not the chance of whether you'll get the money or not. If you have to keep going to ask for the money, chances are you're not going to get it. If you've already got the money, you can make decisions in turn. Anyway, that's my rant for the day.

The argument is that DND spends over half of it's budget on costs which are fixed and tied to the establishment's size without a clear objective. The portion to be spent on capital assets - primarily equipment that would determine (or support) its raison d'etre or its state of readiness - is made up of mostly disjointed one-off decisions by the government which may, or may not be funded, and even when they are funded, sometimes take decades to implement. In a system that takes a decade or more to roll out the equipment needed for readiness, the cycle of musical chairs of the commanders is merely a minor inconvenience because for the most part they are unable to make valid decisions for the future. The best they can do is ride the pony they are on nudging the reins a little bit.

I'll be the first guy to hammer on the CAF's commanders as not doing enough, but the system is set up to fail. And if you don't agree with that then I'll reduce the statement to: the system is not set up to succeed.

 

[McG]

That's too narrow a focus. "Readiness" is the state of being fully prepared for something. Without a clear definition of what that something is, readiness is merely an elusion or, worse, merely a shell game played by the institution.

The CAF job is readiness. Defining the “for what” is the responsibility of the civilian authority under which the CAF is subordinated.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

We exist to defend Canada’s interest with the use of Force.

Sorry all, but that, above, right there, is it. The only thing I would have added, at the end, is "as directed by His Majesty's government"

If we were one of those businesses that posts its "Mission Statement" on the walls of every reception area, conference room and break room, that would be ours. In any White Paper on defense, it would be the opening sentence and everything should flow from that.

Note here that SupersonicMax did not repeat not include "defense of Canada's values" anywhere, and rightly so.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Mr Hellyer's 'reforms' allowed for a mix of uniformed military and civil servants in some jobs - but NOT in command of MARCOM, FMC or Air Defence Command. In some cases ADMs had civilian deputies: Assoc ADM(Mat) was, for a time, Comd MatCom. I saw it actually happen: my old mate (2RCR) LGen Bob Fischer (RCENE) was appointed ADM(Mat) in 1994-96 while he was a serving LGen.

The ADMs are part of the DND side (and yes, some report to both the CDS and the DM - unity of command anyone?). There shouldn’t be, but there are competing interest between DND and the CAF. The option space for Commanders to accept a risk to mission or a risk to personnel is extremely limited and almost always influenced/driven by the DND side, which leads to ineffective command (lots of responsibility, but no mechanism to meet those responsibilities effectively and certainly no accountability given the dispersed nature of decision making).

 

[childs56]

You are talk like we don't do those things. Which we do if in modified form. Recruiters go to schools all the time and guidance counsellors are generally very receptive.

Also you're trying to recruit yourself with all these suggestions, which is a classic error. You need to try and recruit yourself when you were 16-18. Young people don't give a crap about pension and benifits. They don't understand it and really only care about the base paycheque (which they also don't know if that is big, small good or bad yet).

However, the late 20 somethings do and they are not found in schools. Average age of recruits now is 25-27. They have been around the block once or twice and want a stable career and are still young enough to make the change. To them that pitch works.

You have missed the point completely.
One is not going to recruit the person right out of school as much as they use to.
Why are young people not flocking to the Military is no surprise or shouldn't be. To many rules and responsibilities.
Along with scandle after scandal in the news media, to top it all off the relentless bashing of poor equipment and bad treatment.
What you do is plant the seed in their minds that the Canadian Armed Forces can help you with schooling costs,decent pay and decent benefits and is an employer of choice for over 66,000 people across the country.
Then the 22-25year old who realizes they can't afford school or life comes in for a five year stint to either earn enough money to pay for school, gets a trade in the Military and or sticks it out for a college degree and hopefully a career.

Recruiters (not just Military) going to job fairs at schools are having a hard time with justifying costs. Because they are expecting X amount of applicants from that job fair.
That is not happening, that is where the Military can and should be attending for special days at the different grades to plant the thought that the Military is a employer of choice,but also does great things around the world for peace and safety.
Young people you would not expect to look at the Military will start looking at it.

Or keep doing the same thing as you are now and see where your at in 10 years.

 

[daftandbarmy]

You have missed the point completely.
One is not going to recruit the person right out of school as much as they use to.
Why are young people not flocking to the Military is no surprise or shouldn't be. To many rules and responsibilities.
Along with scandle after scandal in the news media, to top it all off the relentless bashing of poor equipment and bad treatment.
What you do is plant the seed in their minds that the Canadian Armed Forces can help you with schooling costs,decent pay and decent benefits and is an employer of choice for over 66,000 people across the country.
Then the 22-25year old who realizes they can't afford school or life comes in for a five year stint to either earn enough money to pay for school, gets a trade in the Military and or sticks it out for a college degree and hopefully a career.

Recruiters (not just Military) going to job fairs at schools are having a hard time with justifying costs. Because they are expecting X amount of applicants from that job fair.
That is not happening, that is where the Military can and should be attending for special days at the different grades to plant the thought that the Military is a employer of choice,but also does great things around the world for peace and safety.
Young people you would not expect to look at the Military will start looking at it.

Or keep doing the same thing as you are now and see where your at in 10 years.

You can blame the scandals, but most people are just completely unaware about the CAF, which doesn't help much.

An older article but this still holds true, largely:

Military is off the radar of most Canadians: DND poll​

Most Canadians seem only vaguely aware they have a military and are decidedly confused — or uncertain — about what it does, according to new research conducted for National Defence.

The biennial report, carried out this year by Earnscliffe Strategy Group, found that while general and specific knowledge was low, appreciation for individuals who serve was high.

The report, dated July 4, examined what sort of public perception remained following the release of the Liberal government's marquee defence policy last year.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/dnd-canadians-military-poll-1.4754083

 

[Good2Golf]

CAF ADM equivalents rotate on that cycle. And it shows.

So by calling a military general/admiral an ‘ADM’ equivalent, you believe that CAF personnel should be slowed down into a significantly longer HR cycle like the decade+ previous ADM(IM)? Should they also be more truly ADM-like and report to the DM, not a CDS? How far do you want the military senior leadership to ape act like civilian public service executives?

That is a Command responsibility, not a Public Service one. DND should be there to support Commanders to enable readiness. I find DND holds way too much power that should be held at the Command level (often indirectly).

The damage that a previous DM did to civilianize the leadership of the CAF to look like civil servants will take years to undo…

 

[daftandbarmy]

So by calling a military general/admiral an ‘ADM’ equivalent, you believe that CAF personnel should be slowed down into a significantly longer HR cycle like the decade+ previous ADM(IM)? Should they also be more truly ADM-like and report to the DM, not a CDS? How far do you want the military senior leadership to ape act like civilian public service executives?

The damage that a previous DM did to civilianize the leadership of the CAF to look like civil servants will take years a long and bloody war to undo…

There, FTFY