I'll believe it when I see it.
Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending
- Thread starter Maxman1
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OldSolduer
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You make a good point but the US is just over the border while Europe is a very large nasty ocean away.
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On the other hand, we are more likely to fight there, so the systems could be a LPO...
TacticalTea
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Certainly a departure from Quebec's usual ''Screw anything that can be associated with British imperialism, to wit, the military, conscription, and overseas deployments''. The Bloc is generally a centrist party, though, and - just like Quebeccers at large - strongly values the right of peoples to self-determination.
It is no surprise to me that Russia's violation of that right would elicit in them (us) a strong militarist attitude that is usually inexistant.
It also follows logically (from their own self-determination) that they would favour Quebec's right to develop and manage dental/pharmacare, and thus would prefer the federal government to focus on national defence rather than what is seen here as interference in a field of provincial competence.
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Except a lot of European stuff is crap, and Europe never builds enough which is why most of Europe is starting to go American.On the other hand, we are more likely to fight there, so the systems could be a LPO...
FJAG
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My guess would be that if we're 'fighting there' then the only spare parts and maintenance we'll get there is the ones we brought with us and what we can do ourselves.On the other hand, we are more likely to fight there, so the systems could be a LPO...
I'd prefer to be tied into the US logistics chain then be grafted on to the German and Swedish and French and Brit for different systems. And boy, do I ever hope we have something better than an NSE and the current logistics chain to work through. It was challenging enough in Afghanistan. I can't see it working in a high intensity conflict.
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It seems to work against our enemy... Again, my idea is buy what we can get our hands on now, then launch the project to find the "best" we can afford.
I'm not anti-American made kit, I'm anti-buy-what-America-has-just-because, as I would be if this was 1937 and you were saying we should buy British because everything else is crap.
GR66
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Volume, supply chain and interoperability should be huge factors in most equipment/weapon purchases. Wherever we go fight we are almost certain to be fighting alongside the Americans. The French, Brits, Swedes or Germans may not be there. Being able to tap into the Walmart of Militaries when you need replacements is not just a convenience in combat, it may mean the difference between mission success and mission failure.
I'm not saying we should blindly buy whatever the Americans are using without any thought, but the first thing we should do in most cases is look at what the Americans are using and then demonstrate why that item CAN'T work for us before we go looking at alternatives.
WLSC
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Bang on. Qc at large don’t like federal insertion in provincial domaine. That exactly why there’s never enough money for the CAF. Sadly, it’s not the end of insertion. The current GC would a find provincial gouv. This were their priority are.
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Totally get what you are saying. But if our focus is going to be things like NORAD and the Arctic (ie fighting the Russians on our own front) then it makes sense to buy American. From interoperability and supply points of view not to mention that they are our biggest and friendliest trading partner.
Not saying we buy everything from there but a lot of things we could seem like no brainers.
CTV reporting $8Billion, but "it won’t be allocated all in one year". If correct, disappointing, to say the least, and tone deaf on the part of the Liberals.
www.ctvnews.ca
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markppcli
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Who’s going American ? I can’t think of any real major procurements beyond the F35?
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That should just about cover the cost for the new, mandatory, 'I'm OK, You're OK' type trainingCTV reporting $8Billion, but "it won’t be allocated all in one year". If correct, disappointing, to say the least, and tone deaf on the part of the Liberals.
Federal budget to include $10B housing plan, $8B for defence
As Canadians face a cost of living crunch, tackling housing affordability is going to be a main feature of Thursday's federal budget, seeing the Liberals earmark $10 billion towards this aim. The 2022 federal budget will also include a defence spending increase over multiple years, but the...
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I certainly don't. Plenty of things is better to buy Euro than from the US. In particular, ITAR creates a massive problem for importation and usage. Sweeden, UK, France, and Italy make some excellent naval items.
CSC has quite a lot of US parts in it. The radars, missile systems (barring CAMM), comms, likey EW suite, Combat Management System (Aegis components) etc...
CAF radios usually have two options that make sense, German or US. Some German stuff isn't fully compatible with some US stuff. Which may inhibit Cdn international comms rule #1 - be interoperable with the United States. As such I expect the majority of communication upgrades to be using US equipment at some point along the line (subcontractor level at least).
markppcli
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Yes but Kevin specifically mentioned Europe buying American equipment.
GR66
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Poland just purchased 250 M1 Abrams tanks.
Poland has also purchased Patriot and both Switzerland and Croatia have Patriot orders pending approval.
The Czech Republic, Estonia, France, Ireland, Lithuania, Norway, Poland, Ukraine and the UK all have purchased Javelin.
Montenegro, Slovenia, Lithuania, Belgium, North Macedonia and Romania have purchased the JTLV (with Portugal and the UK considering)
Just four major systems off the top of my head.
Halifax Tar
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We can debate who has better kit but the ability to utilize the US manufacturing and supply chain with commonality of parts is something the Euros can't even approach to being on par with.
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For a while there ITAR requirements were so over the top we looked at having it as a disqualifying item on non-weapon system procurements. They are getting a bit better, but sometimes they catalogue insane things like fasteners and washers and can take years to get it removed from the list, when you can buy it at home depot. Just because it happens to be holding a radar or something in place doesn't make it protected military equipment, but once it's catalogued...
If you are buying a rifle, or some other standalone kit pretty awesome, but if you are bolting it on to existing equipment can be a really big headache for the initial buy and ongoing maintenance.
If you are buying a rifle, or some other standalone kit pretty awesome, but if you are bolting it on to existing equipment can be a really big headache for the initial buy and ongoing maintenance.
Booter
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I think this is a key. Canadians believe the constant shell game from politicians and military officers on TV touting our prowess and never honestly answering the question of how many for how long can we actually field- and what can we effectively field with no outside support.
The opposite side of that is- there is also the immediate cries from people that you’re somehow disparaging the people in uniform when you criticize it’s effectiveness- because we allow people to conflate our personnel and their desire with the absolute disrepair the material and planning has been left in.
It’s nice of them to react with an ‘increased budget’ due to the whole Russia/Ukraine thing. Buuuttttt…CTV reporting $8Billion, but "it won’t be allocated all in one year". If correct, disappointing, to say the least, and tone deaf on the part of the Liberals.
Federal budget to include $10B housing plan, $8B for defence
As Canadians face a cost of living crunch, tackling housing affordability is going to be a main feature of Thursday's federal budget, seeing the Liberals earmark $10 billion towards this aim. The 2022 federal budget will also include a defence spending increase over multiple years, but the...
The devil is always in the details. We should wait for the details to be known before giving the GoC any sort of praise.
And we need to drastically tweak Public Works / Treasury Board involvement when it comes to procurement.
I don’t mind them being involved as far as enduring taxpayer dollars are being spent responsibly, contracts are being written and signed ethically and legally, and fair competitions help ensure good value for taxpayer.
But we have to pull them out from being so involved in procurement, we don’t end up procuring.
Until we streamline some processes & have the synergies working together more efficiently, more money won’t help as much as everybody thinks it will.
My 0.02
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