I'll believe it when I see it.
Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending
- Thread starter Maxman1
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 7,443
- Points
- 1,160
We might. I have no idea.
Somebody would have to do the sums with better info than that available in the public domain to folks like me.
My thought was prompted by the notion that things are spinning pretty fast these days and 2008 (15 years ago) is starting to look pretty antique. A 2008 solution in 2040 doesn't feel like it will be the optimal plan.
The Aussies have already decided to cut bait on some of their surface requirements (and their land force requirements for that matter) to do "the other thing".
Is our 2008 plan still a valid Course of Action?
- Reaction score
- 5,353
- Points
- 1,040
Sub maintenance is like taking surface ship maintenance, adding a zero or two to the cost, and then exponentially increasing the time to do the work. It's like going from doing a home reno in a full room to trying and do the same work in a tight crawl space, with a much stricter QC and document requirement for the crawl space stuff. The oversight process is like air worthiness on steroids, and I say that with familiarity with both.
No room for error or skipping maintenance, which is fair given the outcomes, but we couldn't afford to do even a skeleton of that on surface ships.
Bit of a mental shift as a surface ship guy, but it's refreshing to not have to argue for basic safety systems to actually be fully operational, as it's just assumed. There are a few pieces of kit used on the subs and the CPFs, and weirdly their reliability is really high when they have a 95% PM completion rate, instead of high teens. Does cost a lot of time and money though, which we can only afford because we have a small number of subs.
- Reaction score
- 7,443
- Points
- 1,160
If I am struggling to meet commitments then I need to reduce my commitments. I may even have to sell off and move and start again.
- Reaction score
- 5,417
- Points
- 1,140
Except, as a rich country that depends on international trade we can't skip out on commitments.
If we can't be bothered to do our part to ensure the "rules based international order" is defended, why should we be allowed to profit from it so greatly?
This is the messaging that politicians have failed to pass on to Canadians, because they don't want to be responsible. They prefer to have more play money for their re-election vote buying, rather than telling Canadian voters hard truths.
- Reaction score
- 7,443
- Points
- 1,160
Skipping out on commitments is one thing. Rolling them up in conformity with contractual agreements is another.
The end result in terms of relations with the market may be the same in both cases but in one case you have just become irrelevant. In the other case you have become irrelevant and have made enemies.
GR66
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 3,405
- Points
- 1,160
Yet here we are planning on 15 x CSCs to replace 12 x CPF, up to 12 x SSKs to replace 4 x Victorias, 2 x JSS coming, an eventual 6 x AOPS and 12 x MCDV's (and their eventual replacements).
Even if we fix our training and retention issues (and how's that going so far?), are there enough Canadians interested enough in going to sea (and under the sea) to fill all those positions?
There seems to be a major disconnect between the capabilities we need and the people we have to do the jobs. And based on the fact that the exact same recruiting and retention issues are being faced by virtually every other Western nation I have serious doubts that anything the CAF does on the personnel front is likely to substantially change the situation. The problem is cultural and demographic. Things like housing allowances, posting policies and operational tempo might shift the situation somewhat to the positive or negative but I don't think they will really change the overall trend.
That fact runs us directly into this reality:
I think at some point we have to come to the realization that a way has to be found to realistically match manning to capabilities and that is likely going to require much more radical changes to the way we think about how we meet our minimum capability requirements. Continuing down the same path is the sure route to failure.
- Reaction score
- 1,049
- Points
- 1,060
The 12 SSK's is a pipe dream to me. Hard to take some of those numbers seriously when they are thrown out like taha. There are too many competing needs. As for the 15 CSC's, it wouldnt surprise me if they end up being 12. Its going to be close to 10 yrs before we see the first one so lots of time for things to change. The last batch will coul be the start of new ship/class and slow rolled out in a continuous build cycle as intended
- Reaction score
- 4,937
- Points
- 1,060
A well deserved spanking
globalnews.ca
U.S. Senator roasts Trudeau, Canada over ‘feeble’ commitment to NORAD: ‘At the kids table’ | Watch News Videos Online
Watch U.S. Senator roasts Trudeau, Canada over ‘feeble’ commitment to NORAD: ‘At the kids table’ Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca
globalnews.ca
MilEME09
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 2,384
- Points
- 1,210
The fact we won't see the last one till the 2040 is embarrassing , the halifax's will be held with duct tape by then
- Reaction score
- 18,742
- Points
- 1,360
Maybe we can recycle the speed tape holding the 41-year old CF-18s together?
- Reaction score
- 1,049
- Points
- 1,060
I question that, as it really depends on how quick Irving can get up to speed. BAE slow rolled the 26 out in the UK and Irving should be able to benefit from their and Australias work plus coming off a hot run of AOPS. But even if it was a 6 yr build on the first and delivering a new one every year after
CSC 1 2024-2030
.....
CSC 12 2041
seems unlikely to progress that well both at the start and year over year
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
- Reaction score
- 12,683
- Points
- 1,140
With Billy Blair at the helm you can count on him not reading his briefing papers. Therefore nothing will happen except more studies and papers which he won't read.
Lather, rinse, repeat until that pension kicks in....
Lather, rinse, repeat until that pension kicks in....
MilEME09
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 2,384
- Points
- 1,210
We will need to convene a committee to examine the report about the last comittees report.
what it sort of implies to me is a continuous build cycle. We won't ever hit 12 or 15 but there is the potential for a continuous supply rather than build and bust
As a Canadian and Retired Military, this is Fucking embarrassing!!A well deserved spanking
U.S. Senator roasts Trudeau, Canada over ‘feeble’ commitment to NORAD: ‘At the kids table’ | Watch News Videos Online
Watch U.S. Senator roasts Trudeau, Canada over ‘feeble’ commitment to NORAD: ‘At the kids table’ Video Online, on GlobalNews.ca
- Reaction score
- 7,443
- Points
- 1,160
Trudeau's not embarrassed.
No he is not, and that's the sad part....my grandkids are totally.....Fuc*** because of this country's total fail, to actually give a fuc* about the future including Defense, the US at some point will take Canada's resources, so China doesn't get it! Economy is in the toilet with all the Liberal projects, housing / inflation shitshow, this Current government does not give a shit whatsoever!! How many damn NATO countries have to say we are a freeloader!! We have the resources to unfuck this, but won't happen because Greta Says so!! My 2 cents!
- Reaction score
- 7,443
- Points
- 1,160
Couldn't have said it better.
Lol, factoring inflation I stand corrected, my 2 loonies worth!You can't give your 2 cents as Canada doesn't have pennies. You're going to have to give your 5 cents worth.
Similar threads
- Article
